WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT IS ABOLISHED?

[3rdAngel]

You should think this through. You’ve make some ludicrous statements and are unable to explain why the religious book you use doesn’t agree with you. I’ve made that clear with refernce to it - you pretend that the text doesn’t mean what it says. What is it you think I need to prove? You’ve already proved yourself wrong by dismissing and misquoting the text you say supports your pov.

You are deflecting. You are the one that was pulling scripture from its context and are not able to respond to the scriptures that have been provided to you that are in disagreement with you. If you disagree with what I have posted then please respond to all the scripture context and subject matter that is in disagreement with your words in pulling scripture out of its context and applying an interpretation to them that they were never talking about. If you cannot what is your argument? You have none right? All you are doing here is arguing with scripture that is in disagreement with your words that are not Gods Word. You do know this is a scripture debate forum right? Perhaps you are in the wrong place. If you believe I am misquoting something prove it from the scriptures like I did to you and lets discuss it. If you cannot why make empty statements you are unable to prove?

 

[Tomef]

You are deflecting. You are the one that was pulling scripture from its context and are not able to respond to the scriptures that have been provided to you that are in disagreement with you. If you disagree with what I have posted then please respond to all the scripture context and subject matter that is in disagreement with your words in pulling scripture out of its context and applying an interpretation to them that they were never talking about. If you cannot what is your argument? You have none right? All you are doing here is arguing with scripture that is in disagreement with your words that are not Gods Word. You do know this is a scripture debate forum right? Perhaps you are in the wrong place. If you believe I am misquoting something prove it from the scriptures like I did to you and lets discuss it. If you cannot why make empty statements you are unable to prove?

This single passage completely demolishes your entire understanding of the Christian religion:

”Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God. If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— "Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch" (referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.“
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2‬:‭16‬-‭23‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Colossians 2:16-23 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs t | English Standard Version 201

Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs t

bible.com

Your religion is something other, more akin to the legalistic practices of religious people Jesus railed at in his day for focusing on trivia. If you are unable or unwilling to understand that, why should I care? It’s all nonsense anyway. If you want to waste your life on the meaningless pursuit of silly issues in a manner that blatantly goes against the whole message and character of the person you claim your religion is based on, that’s your choice.

 

[Tomef]

pulling Colossians 2:16 from its context

That is the context - that holy days and other religious fussiness over food and so on passed away under the new covenant. That is the whole purpose of the passage.

 

[3rdAngel]

This single passage completely demolishes your entire understanding of the Christian religion:

”Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God. If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— "Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch" (referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.“
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2‬:‭16‬-‭23‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Colossians 2:16-23 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs t | English Standard Version 201

Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs t

bible.com

Your religion is something other, more akin to the legalistic practices of religious people Jesus railed at in his day for focusing on trivia. If you are unable or unwilling to understand that, why should I care? It’s all nonsense anyway. If you want to waste your life on the meaningless pursuit of silly issues in a manner that blatantly goes against the whole message and character of the person you claim your religion is based on, that’s your choice.

So that is a no then you are unwilling to respond to my posts and all the scriptures provided in them that are in disagreement with you? I did not think you would. All you posted is someone elses interpretation of Colossians 2:16 that is unrelated to everything I have posted to you. This only tells me you do not know the bible and are following man-made teachings and traditions unsupported by what the bible teaches and you do not care for God or His Words.

 

[3rdAngel]

That is the context - that holy days and other religious fussiness over food and so on passed away under the new covenant. That is the whole purpose of the passage.

Not exactly no. The scripture context has already been provided and proven to you already from Colossians 2:11-14 which is over the ceremonial ordinances and shadow laws of the law of Moses, not Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is in the new covenant (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4). The within scripture context of Colossians 2:16 is over the meat and drink offerings and the sabbaths (plural - not the Sabbath) in the annual feast days being a shadow of things to come in Christ (the meat and drink offerings were connected to these annual Feast days and are fulfilled in Christ our Passover and atonement for sin. Nothing to do with Gods 4th commandment being abolished (the scriptures you ignored already provided). According to James, your religion is one of lawlessness which is sin in Gods eye (see James 2:10-11 as to why I say this and Matthew 15:3-9). According to the scriptures all those who continue in known unrepentant sin according to Hebrews 10:26-31 are in danger of the judgement to come. Do you even know what "shadow laws" are in the new covenant?

 

[Tomef]

Nothing to do with Gods 4th commandment

It specifically tells you sabbaths are no longer relevant. It actually tells you that, right in the text, alongside all of the other rules and regulations it dismisses, in the same context, at the same time. Your need to separate out sabbath as if the whole passage is saying something completely different is to do with the need you have to defend your own, non-scriptural belief.

This is a step below Occam’s razor. If you need to convince yourself that the clear context of a text doesn’t apply to an integral part of that text, without any indication whatsoever that may be the case, it is obvious you are imposing a meaning that simply isn’t there.

I understand how powerful the narrative and sense of community you get from being part of a church is, but you owe it to yourself to learn how to think.

 

[Tomef]

sabbaths (plural - not the Sabbath)

A sabbath , any sabbath, all sabbaths. There is nothing at all in the text or anywhere else that even suggests anything else is meant.

 

[Tomef]

All you posted is someone elses interpretation of Colossians 2:16

Nope, that’s just what it says, like it or not.

 

[Tomef]

Do you even know what "shadow laws" are in the new covenant?

A misunderstanding of what Jesus meant by fulfilling rather than slavishly continuing to follow inferior and outdated legalistic practices.

 

[3rdAngel]

A sabbath , any sabbath, all sabbaths. There is nothing at all in the texts or anywhere else that even suggest anything else is meant.

It does not say any sabbath. The within scripture context already shown in Colossians 2:16 is to the meat and drink offerings in the sabbaths (plural) in the annual feast days and judging others in this regard. This is because all the laws of atonement are fulfilled in Christ. If you read my posts to you then you would understand this. You are twisting scripture unsupported by scripture context and the rest of the bible already provided to you. If you disagree please address my detailed scripture responses to you and show me why you disagree. If you cannot what is your argument? You have none right?

 

[3rdAngel]

Not exactly no. The scripture context has already been provided and proven to you already from Colossians 2:11-14 which is over the ceremonial ordinances and shadow laws of the law of Moses, not Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is in the new covenant (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4). The within scripture context of Colossians 2:16 is over the meat and drink offerings and the sabbaths (plural - not the Sabbath) in the annual feast days being a shadow of things to come in Christ (the meat and drink offerings were connected to these annual Feast days and are fulfilled in Christ our Passover and atonement for sin. Nothing to do with Gods 4th commandment being abolished (the scriptures you ignored already provided). According to James, your religion is one of lawlessness which is sin in Gods eye (see James 2:10-11 as to why I say this and Matthew 15:3-9). According to the scriptures all those who continue in known unrepentant sin according to Hebrews 10:26-31 are in danger of the judgement to come. Do you even know what "shadow laws" are in the new covenant?

Your response here...

It specifically tells you sabbaths are no longer relevant.

No it doesn't. As already proven in the scriptures posted to you that you refused to respond to. The scripture context was to the meat and drink offerings, and the sabbaths (plural) in the annual feast days and not letting others judge you in this regard.

It actually tells you that, right in the text, alongside all of the other rules and regulations it dismisses, in the same context, at the same time. Your need to separate out sabbath as if the whole passage is saying something completely different is to do with the need you have to defend your own, non-scriptural belief.

Nonsense the scriptures say no such thing. This has already been proven to you when we looked at the complete scripture context of Colossians 2:11-17

This is a step below Occam’s razor. If you need to convince yourself that the clear context of a text doesn’t apply to an integral part of that text, without any indication whatsoever that may be the case, it is obvious you are imposing a meaning that simply isn’t there.

Perhaps it applies to you as you have not proven anything you have stated here with scripture.

I understand how powerful the narrative and sense of community you get from being part of a church is, but you owe it to yourself to learn how to think.

Perhaps this applies to you too. We are better off to believe what the scriptures teach in my view. Gods Word does not teach it is now ok to sin and follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us into breaking the commandments of God. This is sin and unbelief in Gods eyes and what we are warned about in the scriptures.

 

[3rdAngel]

Nope, that’s just what it says, like it or not.

Nope sorry I do not believe your teachings of lawlessness. If you disagree respond to my posts. Seems you are unable to.

 

[3rdAngel]

A misunderstanding of what Jesus meant by fulfilling rather than slavishly continuing to follow inferior and outdated legalistic practices.

Ok so can you tell me why these "shadow laws" of the old covenant were given and when they were given? Lets discuss this. Perhaps this will help you to see why Gods Sabbath commandment in the 10 commandments cannot be a shadow law of anything. You up for it?

 

[Tomef]

It does not say any sabbath. The within scripture context already shown in Colossians 2:16 is to the meat and drink offerings in the sabbaths (plural) in the annual feast days and judging others in this regard. This is because all the laws of atonement are fulfilled in Christ. If you read my posts to you then you would understand this. You are twisting scripture unsupported by scripture context and the rest of the bible already provided to you. If you disagree please address my detailed scripture responses to you and show me why you disagree. If you cannot what is your argument? You have none right?

? It does say ‘a sabbath’, without any additional parameters, as it says ‘a festival’ and feasts. The meaning is obvious.

 

[3rdAngel]

? It does say ‘a sabbath’, without any additional parameters, as it says ‘a festival’ and feasts. The meaning is obvious.

It doesn't the Greek is Genitive neuter plural. The rendering here is plural sabbaths and context is to the Annual feasts days and the meat and drink offerings. If you read my posts you would have already seen this.

 

[Tomef]

Ok so can you tell me why these "shadow laws" of the old covenant were given and when they were given? Let’s discuss this. Perhaps this will help you to see why Gods Sabbath commandment in the 10 commandments cannot be a shadow law of anything. You up for it?

Why would I waste my time on that? There are endless sects and denominations with their own pet collections of scripture to ‘prove’ their pov. If you are unable to understanding the plain meaning of a text, why would I want to hear anything further from you? You can make an argument for what you want to think; you could just as well make your one argument against it. Both would be meaningless. That’s what you obviously don’t get. You misunderstand the whole premise of what you claim to be the origin of your beliefs.

It doesn't the Greek is Genitive neuter plural. The rendering here is plural sabbaths and context is to the Annual feasts days and the meat and drink offerings. If you read my posts you would have already seen this.

that’s what you think the context is - purely an act of your own imagination. In any case, I’m not going to spend any more time pointing out the obvious. See you.

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: Ok so can you tell me why these "shadow laws" of the old covenant were given and when they were given? Let’s discuss this. Perhaps this will help you to see why Gods Sabbath commandment in the 10 commandments cannot be a shadow law of anything. You up for it?

Your response here..

Why would I waste my time on that?

Why? It is relevant to our discussion on the shadow laws of Colossians 2:16 and your claim that it is talking about Gods Sabbath commandment of Gods 10 commandments being abolished and being a shadow law. So am I guessing you either do not know the answer to these questions or you are not confident in what you believe and are now starting to feel the heat. Which one is it? I am happy to answer these questions for you if you do not know the answer. Just me me know. Here let me answer this for you. All the Mosaic "shadow laws" of atonement where were given after the fall of mankind. When God made the Sabbath for mankind there was no sin, no law, no Moses and no shadow laws because there was no sin. There was only sinless Adam and Eve made in the image of God. The creation Sabbath that God blessed and made a holy day of rest was made before sin so friend its impossible for the Sabbath to be a shadow law of anything because it was made before sin not after sin when the shadow laws were all made pointing to Jesus our savior for sin. Further more look at the Sabbath commandment in Exodus 20:8-11. It starts off "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.." The Sabbath commandment is a memorial pointing backwards to creation see (Exodus 20:10-11) not forward to things to come because it was made by God before sin entered into the world. This pretty much along with all the other posts and scriptures proving chapter and scripture contexts to the rest of the bible destroys your interpretation of Colossians 2:16 which is taken out of context to the rest of the bible now doesn't it?

3rdAngel said: It doesn't the Greek is Genitive neuter plural. The rendering here is plural sabbaths and context is to the Annual feasts days and the meat and drink offerings. If you read my posts you would have already seen this.

Your response here.

that’s what you think the context is - purely an act of your own imagination. In any case, I’m not going to spend any more time pointing out the obvious. See you.

No that is what the context says verbatim from the scriptures. If you disagree prove me wrong. Did you even press the link in the post you are quoting from? It takes you to BibleHub and shows the Green plural application of sabbaths of Colossians 2:16. Its kind of not working out very well for you now is it.

Cya

 

[Tomef]

Your response here..

Why? It is relevant to our discussion on the shadow laws of Colossians 2:16 and your claim that it is talking about Gods Sabbath commandment of Gods 10 commandments being abolished and being a shadow law. So am I guessing you either do not know the answer to these questions or you are not confident in what you believe and are now starting to feel the heat. Which one is it? I am happy to answer these questions for you if you do not know the answer. Just me me know. Here let me answer this for you. All the Mosaic "shadow laws" of atonement where were given after the fall of mankind. When God made the Sabbath for mankind there was no sin, no law, no Moses there was only sinless Adam and Eve made in the image of God. The creation Sabbath that God blessed and made a holy day of rest was made before sin so friend its impossible for the Sabbath to be a shadow law of anything because it was made before sin not after sin when the shadow laws were all made pointing to Jesus our savior for sin. Further more look at the Sabbath commandment in Exodus 20:8-11. It starts off "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.." The Sabbath commandment is a memorial pointing backwards to creation see (Exodus 20:10-11) not forward to things to come because it was made by God before sin entered into the world. This pretty much now along with all the other posts and scriptures proving chapter and scripture contexts to the rest of the bible pretty much destroys your interpretation of Colossians 2:16 taken out of context to the rest of the bible now doesn't it?

Your response here.

No that is what the context says verbatim from the scriptures. If you disagree prove me wrong. Did you even press the link in the post you are quoting from? It takes you to BibleHub and shows the Green plural application of sabbaths of Colossians 2:16. Its kind of not working out very well for you now is it.

Cya

A list isn’t context. If you don’t understand such basic things , any discussion would be futile. Elaborate nonsense is still nonsense.

 

[Tomef]

here is plural sabbaths

Exactly, all and any sabbaths. If it meant something else, it would say something else.

and context is to the Annual feasts days and the meat

Those things are in the same list of things not to be judged for - ? Don’t you see that? It is a list of things that believers should not concern themselves with . That is not ‘the context’.

 

[3rdAngel]

Why? It is relevant to our discussion on the shadow laws of Colossians 2:16 and your claim that it is talking about Gods Sabbath commandment of Gods 10 commandments being abolished and being a shadow law. So am I guessing you either do not know the answer to these questions or you are not confident in what you believe and are now starting to feel the heat. Which one is it? I am happy to answer these questions for you if you do not know the answer. Just me me know. Here let me answer this for you. All the Mosaic "shadow laws" of atonement where were given after the fall of mankind. When God made the Sabbath for mankind there was no sin, no law, no Moses and no shadow laws because there was no sin. There was only sinless Adam and Eve made in the image of God. The creation Sabbath that God blessed and made a holy day of rest was made before sin so friend its impossible for the Sabbath to be a shadow law of anything because it was made before sin not after sin when the shadow laws were all made pointing to Jesus our savior for sin. Further more look at the Sabbath commandment in Exodus 20:8-11. It starts off "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.." The Sabbath commandment is a memorial pointing backwards to creation see (Exodus 20:10-11) not forward to things to come because it was made by God before sin entered into the world. This pretty much along with all the other posts and scriptures proving chapter and scripture contexts to the rest of the bible destroys your interpretation of Colossians 2:16 which is taken out of context to the rest of the bible now doesn't it?

No that is what the context says verbatim from the scriptures. If you disagree prove me wrong. Did you even press the link in the post you are quoting from? It takes you to BibleHub and shows the Green plural application of sabbaths of Colossians 2:16. Its kind of not working out very well for you now is it.

Your response here...

A list isn’t context. If you don’t understand such basic things , any discussion would be futile. Elaborate nonsense is still nonsense.

Hey the post you are quoting from was answering your question as to why asking about what the shadow laws are and when they were given is relevant to Colossians 2:16. You were answered in the post responded to but simply ignored. (I wonder why?). You were also provided the Greek link to BibleHub proving that sabbaths in Colossians 2:16 is plural to sabbaths context being to the meat and the drink offerings and the sabbaths in the annual Feast days and judging others in this regard. Hey do not pretend I did not post you the full chapter and scripture context of the shadow laws of Colossians 2:16 and what Paul was quoting from in the laws of atonement from the rest of the bible. Remember that was the first thing I did for you. Your response was to ignore everything posted to you and not respond to the many scriptures that were in disagreement with you.

Post # 1. Chapter context of Colossians 2:11-17 and within scripture context of Colossians 2:16 (post # 1618 linked)
Post # 2. Colossians 2:16 what is Paul quoting from in the old testament scriptures (post # 1620 linked)
Post # 3. Colossians 2:16 what is Paul quoting from in the new testament scriptures (post # 1622 linked)
Post # 4. Why it is impossible Gods creation Sabbath of Gods 10 commandments cannot be a shadow law of anything (post # 1657 linked)

You simply ignored the above right and were unable to respond to all the scriptures here that are in disagreement with your interpretation of a single scripture taken out of context to the rest of the bible. Now if you cannot address a single post here what is your argument? You have none do you. Just be honest.

Take Care.