WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT IS ABOLISHED?

[Tomef]

Hey happy to and no pretending needed unlike Sunday worship that is not biblical. Hebrew bible reckoning of days does not go by our reckoning of time. Biblical days start at sunset and end at sunset. Likewise the days are simply called Day 1 = our Sunday; Day 2 = our Monday; Day 3 = our Tuesday, Day 4 = our Wednesday; Day 5 = our Thursday; Day 6 Preparation day before Sabbath our Friday; and Day 7 = Sabbath. So it is the seventh day of the week that God blessed and made a holy day of rest for all mankind in Genesis 2:1-3 and in the words of Jesus God made for all mankind in Mark 2:27-28. Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:27) who taught us how to keep the Sabbath in Matthew 12:1-12 and expected us to continue keeping the Sabbath up until the last days before the second coming see Matthew 24:20; Mark 13:18. Everyone of Gods 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as the standard of Christian living and according to James breaking anyone of them is sin in Gods eyes (James 2:10-11).

Take Care.

?

Where in the verse quoted, and other similar verses I’m sure you’ve been made aware of, is there any indication that the dismissal of the OT requirement to keep any Sabbath does not include whatever it is you are talking about? Where is it? Where is the verse that says anything like that?

 

[3rdAngel]

The old covenant (MOSAIC ordinances for remission of sin) was to pass away..

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.... [9] WHICH WAS A FIGURE for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The first covenant had ORDINANCES which stood ONLY in meat and drink offerings which were a figure. A shadow

EZEKIEL 46:14 [14] And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a MEAT OFFERING continually by a perpetual ORDINANCE unto the LORD.

Meat offering by ordinance. There ya go. Hebrews 9 was ofcourse correct

HEBREWS 10:1 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

HEBREWS 9:1 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

old covenant...blood of goats.....The meat and drink offerings

HEBREWS 10:4 [4] FOR IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.[8] Above when he said, sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

EPHESIANS 2:15 [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

HEBREWS 13:9 [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] WHEREFORE JESUS ALSO, THAT HE MIGHT SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD, suffered without the gate.

The first covenant had ORDINANCES which stood ONLY in meat and drink offerings which were a figure. A shadow

EZEKIEL 46:14 [14] And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a MEAT OFFERING continually by a perpetual ORDINANCE unto the LORD.

HEBREWS 10:1 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. [3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

Hebrews 10 says it all. The shadow of the law was the offerings (the meat and drink offerings).

NUMBERS 19:2 [2] This is the ORDINANCE OF THE LAW which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:

JOHN 6:55 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.

NUMBERS 18:8 [8] And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, BY AN ORDINANCE for ever.[9] This shall be thine of the most holy things, reserved from the fire: EVERY OBLATION of theirs, EVERY MEAT OFFERING of theirs, and EVERY SIN OFFERING of theirs, and every trespass offering of theirs, which they shall render unto me, shall be most holy for thee and for thy sons.The new covenant is all about the blood of Christ. Not changing the law....but fulfilling the law

ZECHARIAH 9:9 [9] Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, THY KING COMETH UNTO THEE: HE IS JUST, AND HAVING SALVATION; lowly, and riding upon an ***, and upon a colt the foal of an ***.[10] And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from river even to the ends of the earth.[11] As for thee also, BY THE BLOOD OF THY COVENANT I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no waterVerse 9 definitely prophecies of the coming Jesus. Verse 11, Jesus is called the blood of thy covenant

HEBREWS 12:23 [23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,[24] And to Jesus THE MEDIATOR OF THE NEW COVENANT, AND TO THE BLOOD of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

New covenant...blood

LUKE 22:19 [19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. [20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, THIS CUP IS THE NEW TESTAMENT IN MY BLOOD, which is shed for you.

Jesus did not come to change or destroy the law. The sabbath is still to be kept. He came to fulfil what was written of Him in the books of the law and to END the Mosaic law for remission of SIN and the penalty of SIN in those who BELIEVE.

NO MORE ORDINANCES WRITTEN IN THE BOOK of the OLD COVENANT Ceremonial/Levitical/Sacrificial laws and animal sacrifices.

.................

CONCLUSION: COL 2:16 is not talking about God's 10 Commandments or the 4th Commandment it is talking about CEREMONIAL ORDINACES written in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant for remission of SIN and annual festivals and HOLY DAYS and special SABBATHS of LEV 23 that pointed to Jesus and God's plan of salvation. Tomef, can you see your error now in your interpretation of COL 2:16-17?

 

[3rdAngel]

In disagreement with me on what? You haven’t quoted anything relevant to anything I said. Do you understand that simply posting the same vaguely related things doesn’t actually make any kind of point that would be relevant?

In disagreement with your claims that Colossians 2:16 is a reference to Gods seventh day Sabbath of the 10 commandments. You are welcome.
It is a reference to the meat and drink offerings in the sabbaths (plural) in the annual Feast days not not to judge others in this regard.

 

[3rdAngel]

In disagreement with me on what? You haven’t quoted anything relevant to anything I said. Do you understand that simply posting the same vaguely related things doesn’t actually make any kind of point that would be relevant?

Yep I did... I posted you what Paul is quoting from, in the Torah. You pulling scripture from its context does not support your interpretation of these scriptures. Go read what was just posted to you and the scriptures that prove context and subject matter.

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: Hey happy to and no pretending needed unlike Sunday worship that is not biblical. Hebrew bible reckoning of days does not go by our reckoning of time. Biblical days start at sunset and end at sunset. Likewise the days are simply called Day 1 = our Sunday; Day 2 = our Monday; Day 3 = our Tuesday, Day 4 = our Wednesday; Day 5 = our Thursday; Day 6 Preparation day before Sabbath our Friday; and Day 7 = Sabbath. So it is the seventh day of the week that God blessed and made a holy day of rest for all mankind in Genesis 2:1-3 and in the words of Jesus God made for all mankind in Mark 2:27-28. Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:27) who taught us how to keep the Sabbath in Matthew 12:1-12 and expected us to continue keeping the Sabbath up until the last days before the second coming see Matthew 24:20; Mark 13:18. Everyone of Gods 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as the standard of Christian living and according to James breaking anyone of them is sin in Gods eyes (James 2:10-11).

Your response here..

Where in the verse quoted, and other similar verses I’m sure you’ve been made aware of, is there any indication that the dismissal of the OT requirement to keep any Sabbath does not include whatever it is you are talking about? Where is it? Where is the verse that says anything like that?

God blessed and made a holy day of rest for all mankind in Genesis 2:1-3 and in the words of Jesus God made the seventh day Sabbath for all mankind in Mark 2:27-28. Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:27) who taught us how to keep the Sabbath in Matthew 12:1-12 and expected us to continue keeping the Sabbath up until the last days before the second coming see Matthew 24:20; Mark 13:18. Everyone of Gods 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as the standard of Christian living and according to James breaking anyone of them is sin in Gods eyes (James 2:10-11).

Hebrews 4:9 Therefore it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath.

 

[Tomef]

WHAT IS PAUL TALKING ABOUT IN COL 2:16-17? (linking the OLD to the NEW)

Col 2:16-17, Let no man therefore judge you in (1) MEAT, OR IN DRINK, or in respect of an (2) FEASTIVAL, or of the (3) NEW MOON, or of the (4) SABBATH DAY{S} PLURAL: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

What is Paul referring to from the OLD TESTAMENT?

EZEKIEL 45:17-21, It shall be the prince’s duty to furnish the burnt offerings, (1) MEAT OFFERING AND DRINK OFFERINGS, at the (2) FEASTS, the (3) NEW MOONS, and the (4) SABBATH{S}, AT ALL THE APPOINTED (2) FEASTS OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL: he shall provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings, and peace offerings, to make atonement on behalf of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel. Thus says the Lord GOD; In the first month, in the first day of the month, thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and cleanse the sanctuary: And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering, and put it upon the posts of the house, and upon the four corners of the settle of the altar, and upon the posts of the gate of the inner court. And so thou shalt do the seventh day of the month for every one that erred, and for him that is simple: so shall ye reconcile the house. In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the Passover, a Feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.

1 CHRONICLES 23:31 and whenever (1) burnt offerings were presented to the LORD on the (4) Sabbaths, at the (3) New Moon (2) feasts and at the appointed festivals. They were to serve before the LORD regularly in the proper number and in the way prescribed for them.

2 CHRONICLES 2:4 [4] Now I am about to build a temple for the Name of the LORD my God and to dedicate it to him for burning fragrant incense before him, for setting out the consecrated bread regularly, and for making (1) burnt offerings every morning and evening and on the (4) Sabbaths, at the (3) New Moons and at the appointed (2) festivals of the LORD our God. This is a lasting ordinance for Israel.

HOSEA 2:11 [11], I will stop all her celebrations: her (2) yearly festivals, her (3) New Moons, her (4) Sabbaths and all her (2) appointed festivals.

It is interesting to note in the Old Testament the word Sabbath (shabbath 7676 from shabath 7673 meaning “rest”) is not only used for the weekly Sabbath but is also applied to the first and last days of the annual Jewish Festivals. The Greek Word used in Col 2:16 is Sabbaton simply means to cease from secular work; rest.

The monthly New Moon Sabbaths in relation to these festivals as well as the Holy convocations (Sabbaton to cease from work and rest) could fall on any day of the week depending on the year the festival was starting. The Holy convocations were to start the beginning of the annual Jewish feasts. They were to be rest (Sabbath) days (not to be confused with God’s commandment) and restricted or no work was to be done. (Lev 23; Num 10; 28; 29)

A High Sabbath day however was when a Holy convocation [annual feast day] falls on the same day as God’s weekly Sabbath commandment (Ex 20:8-11). This is an extension of the term "high day" found in the King James Version at John 19:31-42. The seven festivals do not necessarily occur on weekly Shabbat (seventh-day Sabbath) and are called by the name miqra ("called assembly") in Hebrew (Lev. 23). Three of them occur in spring: the first and seventh days of Pesach (Passover), and Shavuot (Pentecost) which occurs in summer. Three occur in fall, in the seventh month, and are also called shabbaton: Rosh Hashanah (Trumpets); Yom Kippur, the "Sabbath of Sabbaths" (Atonement); and the first and eighth days of Sukkoth (Tabernacles). Sometimes the word shabbaton is extended to mean all seven festivals. The Gospel of John says of the night immediately following Christ's burial that "that sabbath day was a high day" (19:31-42). That night was Nisan 15, just after the first day of Passover week (Unleavened Bread) and an annual miqra and rest day, in most chronologies. The King James Version may thus be the origin of naming the annual rest days "High Sabbaths" in English (source: wiki).

All of the above have their origin from the ceremonial laws of the book of Moses found in Lev 23; Num 10; 28; 29. All these references are in connection to; (1) Food and Drink offerings, (2) Feast days, (3) New Moons and (4) annual feast Sabbath(s)

So in summary, it should be very clear that Col 2:14-17 is referring to the ceremonial laws of Moses along with the annual Jewish feast days that all pointed to the coming of Jesus. When Jesus died on the cross the Jewish feasts along with the burnt offerings, food and drink offerings, festivals and New Moon festival Sabbath(s) which all pointed to Jesus where a shadow of things to come. Many of the feast days (holy convocations) in Lev 23 where no work days in the Greek Col 2:16 were Sabbaton cease from secular work and rest.

More to come...

That is completely random. If you find it convincing, well, it’s your life to waste on pointless trivia I suppose. Where do you get this notion that I or anyone else insists on Sunday as some sort of sabbath? It’s nothing more than a matter of convenience for religious people. If you genuinely think a being capable of creating the universe would get as bothered as you over which particular designation of the period between sunrise and sunset is the ‘right one’ your life will be a tragic waste of time. Do yourself a favour and learn how to think better than whoever stuffed this meaningless nonsense into your head.

 

[Tomef]

Yep I did... I posted you what Paul is quoting from, in the Torah. You pulling scripture from its context does not support your interpretation of these scriptures. Go read what was just posted to you and the scriptures that prove context and subject matter.

Nope, you posted a transparently feeble argument of your views.

 

[3rdAngel]

That is completely random. If you find it convincing, well, it’s your life to waste on pointless trivia I suppose. Where do you get this notion that I or anyone else insists on Sunday as some sort of sabbath? It’s nothing more than a matter of convenience for religious people. If you genuinely think a being capable of creating the universe would get as bothered as you over which particular designation of the period between sunrise and sunset is the ‘right one’ your life will be a tragic waste of time. Do yourself a favour and learn how to think better than whoever stuffed this meaningless nonsense into your head.

Its not random. It shows the full scripture and topic contexts of Colossians 2:11-17 and shows what Paul is quoting from in the Torah. You did not read what was posted to you did you and have no response to the scriptures that are in disagreement with you.

 

[3rdAngel]

Nope, you posted a transparently feeble argument of your views.

The prove it. I am not interested in your words denying Gods Word. Go through my posts section by section and prove your claims. If you cannot what is your argument? You have none right? Therefore you are arguing with the scriptures that are in disagreement with you and you have no response except to provide your words because you cannot prove what you say.

 

[Tomef]

Hebrews 4:9 Therefore it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath.

Uh you just accused me of taking scripture out of context… please explain why you think Hebrews 4 is about Saturdays, using the whole chapter, as it is all linked to the same idea.

 

[Tomef]

It’s not random. It shows the full scripture and topic contexts of Colossians 2:11-17 and shows what Paul is quoting from in the Torah. You did not read what was posted to you did you.

No it doesn’t. It’s a superficial attempt to justify a particular point of view, a superficial skim that illustrates nothing.

 

[3rdAngel]

Uh you just accused me of taking scripture out of context… please explain why you think Hebrews 4 is about Saturdays, using the whole chapter, as it is all linked to the same idea.

Yep I did indeed. Read the context of Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4. It is a warning that Gods people did not enter into Gods rest because of their sins and unbelief. Hebrews 4:1-5 here states Gods rest as being the seventh day Sabbath created from the foundation of the world. Context is in agreement with what I have posted to you.

 

[Tomef]

The prove it. I am not interested in your words denying Gods Word. Go through my posts section by section and prove your claims. If you cannot what is your argument? You have none right? Therefore you are arguing with the scriptures that are in disagreement with you and you have no response except to provide your words because you cannot prove what you say.

Prove what ? Prove what your argument lacks? You are making the claims, it’s up to you to provide some sort of convincing All you have is time wasting on trivial notions. Anyone can waste their time with tat like that, if they choose to, an endless round of meaningless assertions based on superficial skims of cherry picked verses. What’s the point?

 

[3rdAngel]

No it doesn’t. It’s a superficial attempt to justify a particular point of view, a superficial skim that illustrates nothing.

So I guess that is a no then? You cannot prove what you say. Just you with your words in argument against all the scripture contexts and subject matter in disagreement with you taking scripture out of its context and applying an interpretation to Colossians 2:16 that is not biblical.

 

[Tomef]

Yep I did indeed. Read the context of Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4. It is a warning that Gods people did not enter into Gods rest because of their sins and unbelief. Hebrews 4:1-5 here states Gods rest as being the seventh day Sabbath created from the foundation of the world. Context is in agreement with what I have posted to you.

Ok, the use the actual text to explain why you think so.

 

[3rdAngel]

Prove what ? Prove what your argument lacks? You are making the claims, it’s up to you to provide some sort of convincing All you have is time wasting on trivial notions. Anyone can waste their time with tat like that, if they choose to, an endless round of meaningless assertions based on superficial skims of cherry picked verses. What’s the point?

Well you have no proven anything you have said here so far have you? Just made a bunch of statements without any scripture support.

 

[Tomef]

You cannot prove what you say. J

Prove what?

 

[Tomef]

Well you have no proven anything you have said here so far have you?

What do you mean? Proven what?

 

[Tomef]

Well you have no proven anything you have said here so far have you? Just made a bunch of statements without any scripture support.

You should think this through. You’ve make some ludicrous statements and are unable to explain why the religious book you use doesn’t agree with you. I’ve made that clear with refernce to it - you pretend that the text doesn’t mean what it says. What is it you think I need to prove? You’ve already proved yourself wrong by dismissing and misquoting the text you say supports your pov.

 

[3rdAngel]

Prove what?

Well are you not the funny one. Are you pretending to not know what I am talking about now? You made the claim that what I posted to you from the scriptures proving the context and subject matter of Colossians 2:16 does not support your interpretation of pulling Colossians 2:16 from its context to claim Gods Sabbath commandment of the 10 commandments is abolished. I then asked you to prove your claims with scripture not your words in disagreement with the scriptures shared with you.