WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT IS ABOLISHED?

[3rdAngel]

You're really wasting your time & effort. Xians just don't care. Nothing will break the hold of the 'antichrist'. Lost cause.

Mark 10:27 (there is always hope)

 

[3rdAngel]

Well exactly.This whole thread strikes me as an excuse to slag off most of Christianity, by someone who is part of an exclusivist sect and is seeking out reasons to exclude most of Christendom. It's pretty daft, in my opinion, and not particularly pleasant.

Why because you have been provided scripture that is in disagreement with your teachings and practice of Christianity and are unable to respond to the scriptures in the bible that are in disagreement with you? If that happened to me I would see it as a red flag and re-evaluate what I believe.

 

[3rdAngel]

Nor is it Saturday linked. As @Evangelicalhumanist points out, nothing tells us which day of the week should be treated as the allegorical seventh day of creation. It is all rather ridiculous to make such an issue of which day of the modern week we use. There are many far more important issues than this, surely?

That is not true at all. The term "the Lord's day" was used by some in the early Church as a reference to Sunday worship in celebration of the resurrection of Jesus. It comes from a scripture in the bible found in Revelation 1

• REVELATION 1:10 10, I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet

The Greek words used for the day that JOHN was in the Spirit of is the for Lord's day are

• REVELATION 1:10 εγενομην εν πνευματι εν τη κυριακη ημερα και ηκουσα οπισω μου φωνην μεγαλην ως σαλπιγγος

The word "κυριακη" (translit. "kuriake") is an Adjective - Dative - Singular - Feminine. This means it is being used as a 'possessive' as ownership or belonging to ("of", see 1 Corinthians 11:20, "the Lord's supper"), which means the "day" in context belongs to "the Lord". It is literally "the Lord's (belonging to) day". This means, that the "day" in context is uniquely "the Lord's" out of all the 7 days of the week, for the day under consideration is that which exists within the week, as a day which repeats weekly. This is extremely important, as those who incorrectly assume it to mean "the first [day] of the week" in lieu of Jesus' resurrection, cannot get a weekly occurrence out of a one-time event, in fulfillment of typology of the Firstfruit/Wavesheaf in Leviticus 23:9-14, as made known in 1 Corinthians 15:20,23

The problem here however is that there is not a single scripture that references Sunday or the first day of the week (bible names for the days of the week) to being "the Lords day" in scripture.

According to the scripture "the Lords day" however can be referenced to "the Sabbath day" of Gods' 4th commandment found in Exodus 20:8-11.

Letting the scriptures answer this question

• WHAT DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES?

• MATTHEW 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY

This then promotes a bit of a dilemma for the Church as there is not a single scripture in all of the bible that days "the Lords day" from Revelation 1:10 is Sunday. Yet there is many scriptures referencing "the Lords day" or Gods' specific claims to ownership of any particular day to the Sabbath day that he blessed and set aside as a holy day of rest for a memorial of creation (see Genesis 2:1-3) and made one of Gods' 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11).

God's "ownership" of the Sabbath day or "Lord's day is also repeated elsewhere as "MY" (ownership of the day as in the Greek used in REVELATION 1:10 κυριακη). Other scriptures in the bible pointing to "the Lords day" as being the Sabbath day...

• MATTHEW 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY. (the Sabbath day is Lord's day)

• ISAIAH 58:13-14 [13], If you turn away your foot from the SABBATH, from doing your pleasure on MY HOLY DAY (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day); and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honorable; and shall honor him, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words: [14], Then shall you delight yourself in the LORD; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father: for the mouth of the LORD has spoken it.

• LEVITICUS 19:30 You shall keep MY SABBATHS, (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day)and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

• EZEKIEL 20:12 Moreover also I gave them MY SABBATHS, (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day) to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ used in Revelations 1:10 is in reference to the Lord's ownership of the day. It does not say that this day is in reference to μιά των σαββάτων which means the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK.

Take Care

 

[3rdAngel]

This may help: Acts of the Apostles 15. In verses 28 & 29, we can read the Apostles’ decision. I don’t know of a Scripture, pertaining to Christians, advocating one specific day We should honor it all the time…. But honoring it, doesn’t require rest. It requires living your life in a way that Jehovah God approves. — Romans 12:1-3, etc.

Thanks anyway @Hockeycowboy. I have studied this in detail. Have a look at the scripture context of Acts of the Apostles 15:1-2. Acts 15 is over the question is circumcision from the law of Moses a requirement for the salvation of new gentile believers. The question being discussed at Jerusalem was never over thte question is Gods 10 commandments still the standard of sin and righteousness and the standard of godly living through faith in Christ. That interpretation of the scriptures has Paul in contradiction with Paul and the rest of the bible when he says sometime later after the decision at Jerusalem to the Corinthian gentile believers in 1 Corinthians 7:19 "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing but the keeping of the commandments of God. You may want to revisit what you believe.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

Thanks for the blessing. May your steps be ordered by Him! Think about it, there was no Sabbath for Adam... every day was a Sabbath with God. An everlasting Covenant of rest.

Hello Kenny, well I have thought about these questions and studied them in great detail. Jesus says in Mark 2:27 that the Sabbath was made for man. There was only Adam and Eve (mankind) who were created on the 6th day of the creation week in Genesis 1:26-31. After creating all things in heaven and earth and after creating mankind on the 6th day. God rested from all His work of creation on the "seventh day" of the week where God blessed the 'seventh day" of the week and made the 'seventh day" a holy day of rest for mankind (Adam and Eve) see Mark 2:27; Genesis 1:26-31 and Genesis 2:1-3. So you might want to think about this.

Romans 14:5 PHILLIPS Again, one man thinks some days of more importance than others. Another man considers them all alike. Let every one be definite in his own convictions. If a man specially observes one particular day, he does so “to God”. The everlasting covenant of rest.

Once again the context of Romans 14 is to eating and not eating on days that men esteem over other days. Romans 14 is not talking about Gods 4th commandment and there is nothing in the book of Romans to suggest this. Its not a good idea to pull scripture out of its context and read into the scriptures what is not stated. This is cherry picking scripture and twisting scripture to make it say things it has never said.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

So where does it say in Colossians 2:16 that Gods 4th commandment is not abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest? It doesn't. So why quote it?

The year of Jubilee was as full year of a Sabbath and it represents that we are returned to complete union with God as was Adam before he sinned.

There are many different kinds of sabbaths in the old testament. All of them have a different meaning and purpose. The year of Jubilee is not the same as Gods weekly seventh day Sabbath that was a memorial of creation and is kept every seventh day as a memorial of creation and one of Gods 10 commandments held every week and attached to the weekly cycle on every seventh day. The year of Jubilee came every 50th year, was a year full of releasing people from their debts, releasing all slaves, and returning property to who owned it (Leviticus 25:1-13). During this year, the Israelites were not supposed to reap or harvest; it was a time for giving the land a rest.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

And imagine if a doctor or a persona like unto you that works at the hospital and they said, "I would love to work on your appendix but please don't let it burst for the next 24 hours... I'm on my Sabbath".

Try reading Matthew 12:1-12. Jesus taught it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath day. Lets not make false scenarios and problems that do not exist and make excuses for sin defined in the scriptures as breaking Gods law *1 John 3:4.

 

[Apostle John]

I'm not sure I understand. It sounds like you DO think the 10 are the best, but then you said things have moved on?

The Ten Commandments were introduced by God to show the sin nature in man, make up part of the law in Judaism and are clearly where morals originate from. Christians are under grace and so don’t have to follow the Jewish law rigidly but Christians should respect the Ten Commandments.

 

[Apostle John]

Watch and observe something more closely related, like an ape, since we are apes.

Strange. Do apes have morals?

 

[3rdAngel]

The Ten Commandments were introduced by God to show the sin nature in man, make up part of the law in Judaism and are clearly where morals originate from. Christians are under grace and so don’t have to follow the Jewish law rigidly but Christians should respect the Ten Commandments.

Grace is not a license to sin (break Gods law - 1 John 3:4)

• Romans 6:1-2 1, What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2, God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

In the new covenant Gods law has the same role it always had and that is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing when obeyed) and evil (moral wrong doing when disobeyed); sin (moral wrong doing when disobeyed) and righteousness (moral right doing when obeyed).

• Romans 3:20 20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
• Romans 7:7 7, What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, You shall not covet.
• 1 John 3:4 4, Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
• Psalms 119:172 172, My tongue shall speak of your word: for all your commandments are righteousness.

According to James in James 2:10-11 if we break anyone of Gods 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin

• James 2:10-11 10, For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.

Christians are those who love God and keep His commandments. According to the scriptures those who break Gods commandments do not know God and need to be born again...

• 1 John 2:3-4 3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4, He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
• 1 John 3:4-9 4, Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5, And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6, Whoever abides in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him. 7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8, He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9, Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

There fore Christians are those who have been born again into Gods new covenant promise (Hebrews 8:10-12) to love God and keep His commandments. Those who break Gods law do not know God according to the scriptures as shown above..

• John 14:15 If you love me keep my commandments
• John 15:10 10, If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
• 1 John 5:2-3 2, By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.3, For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Note the above are all new testament scriptures.

Take Care.

 

[Kenny]

Hello Kenny, well I have thought about these questions and studied them in great detail. Jesus says in Mark 2:27 that the Sabbath was made for man. There was only Adam and Eve (mankind) who were created on the 6th day of the creation week in Genesis 1:26-31. After creating all things in heaven and earth and after creating mankind on the 6th day. God rested from all His work of creation on the "seventh day" of the week where God blessed the 'seventh day" of the week and made the 'seventh day" a holy day of rest for mankind (Adam and Eve) see Mark 2:27; Genesis 1:26-31 and Genesis 2:1-3. So you might want to think about this.

Hello young one (assuming you are younger than I am)

I am glad you have thought it through. I would suppose that many on this forum besides us have done so also.

Sometimes we relegate what we think within context of our viewpoints. I'm sure we all do. The question is whether our thought are His thoughts. In many cases His thoughts are actually higher than ours.

Heb 4 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest,

The question may be whether HIs rest was the works of creation or the rest of knowing His promise of redemption and eternal rest was the goal

Once again the context of Romans 14 is to eating and not eating on days that men esteem over other days. Romans 14 is not talking about Gods 4th commandment and there is nothing in the book of Romans to suggest this. It's not a good idea to pull scripture out of its context and read into the scriptures what is not stated. This is cherry picking scripture and twisting scripture to make it say things it has never said.

I disagree. Not just in that he spoke of different examples but then he sums it up:

23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

So, if you eat out of faith, it is sin. If you observe one day and you are in faith, it isn't sin. If you observe all days in His rest with faith and you do it as unto the Lord it is not sin.

I think your point exemplifies the whole of the chapter. You are fully convinced of one day and you do it in faith. God is pleased. I view all days as the Sabbath and do it as unto the Lord and God is pleased because I do it in faith.

So where does it say in Colossians 2:16 that Gods 4th commandment is not abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest? It doesn't. So why quote it?

I quote it lest you start judging my faith in reference to the Sabbath (since "it is written")

There are many different kinds of sabbaths in the old testament. All of them have a different meaning and purpose. The year of Jubilee is not the same as Gods weekly seventh day Sabbath that was a memorial of creation and is kept every seventh day as a memorial of creation and one of Gods 10 commandments held every week and attached to the weekly cycle on every seventh day. The year of Jubilee came every 50th year, was a year full of releasing people from their debts, releasing all slaves, and returning property to who owned it (Leviticus 25:1-13). During this year, the Israelites were not supposed to reap or harvest; it was a time for giving the land a rest.

That is correct. The year of Jubilee is fulfilled in Jesus - the Lord of the Sabbath - eliminated all debt, returning us to our freedom in Christ and rightful position - it is the "acceptable year of the Lord". It is the Sabbath of all Sabbaths.

Did you notice that it isn't recorded that they observed any Year of Jubilee? Why? It was waiting for Jesus' redemption!

 

[3rdAngel]

Hello young one (assuming you are younger than I am) I am glad you have thought it through. I would suppose that many on this forum besides us have done so also.

From what I read I doubt that very much Kenny. It seems people do not read the bible for themselves. They post what their church teaches them to post and when you investigate deeply into with them what they are saying it does not hold up to the scripture contexts when these are added back in for discussion. When this happens most people tend to disappear from the discussion and a detailed look at the scriptures.

Sometimes we relegate what we think within context of our viewpoints. I'm sure we all do. The question is whether our thought are His thoughts. In many cases His thoughts are actually higher than ours.

Agreed something that is a part of my personal testimony where Jesus taught me through His Spirit and promises found in John 7:17; John 14:26; John 16:13; 1 John 2:27 which are all a part of Gods new covenant promise found in Hebrews 8:11 from Jeremiah 31:31-34. A lot of people do not understand these scriptures Kenny. They are all Gods promises and are all conditional on John 8:31-36.

Heb 4 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, The question may be whether HIs rest was the works of creation or the rest of knowing His promise of redemption and eternal rest was the goal

Your question is answered in the very scriptures you are quoting from Gods Rest/His Rest/My Rest of Hebrews 3:8-19 and Hebrews 4:1-11 is defined in

• Hebrews 4:3-5 3, For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4, For he spoke in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5, And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

This is a reference back to Genesis 2:1-3

• Genesis 2:1-3 1, Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2, And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3, And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

As shown from the scripture context His Rest/My Rest/Gods Rest is referring to the seventh day Sabbath created from the foundation of the world. The "seventh day" Sabbath.

3rdAngel said: ↑ Once again the context of Romans 14 is to eating and not eating on days that men esteem over other days. Romans 14 is not talking about Gods 4th commandment and there is nothing in the book of Romans to suggest this. It's not a good idea to pull scripture out of its context and read into the scriptures what is not stated. This is cherry picking scripture and twisting scripture to make it say things it has never said.

Your response here...

I disagree. Not just in that he spoke of different examples but then he sums it up: 23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. So, if you eat out of faith, it is sin. If you observe one day and you are in faith, it isn't sin. If you observe all days in His rest with faith and you do it as unto the Lord it is not sin. I think your point exemplifies the whole of the chapter. You are fully convinced of one day and you do it in faith. God is pleased. I view all days as the Sabbath and do it as unto the Lord and God is pleased because I do it in faith.

You disagree with what exactly Kenny? You have not posted anything here that says that Romans 14 is talking about Gods 4th commandment. You are reading that into the scripture. It is not in the scriptures your reading from or in the whole book of Romans. As posted earlier Romans 14 is about eating and not eating on days that men esteem over other days. Romans 14 is not talking about Gods 4th commandment and there is nothing in the book of Romans to suggest this. If you disagree please post scripture that proves Romans 14 is talking about Gods 4th commandment. You have to read that into a single cheery picked scripture to come up with that interpretation.

3rdAngel said: ↑ So where does it say in Colossians 2:16 that Gods 4th commandment is not abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest? It doesn't. So why quote it?

Your response here...

I quote it lest you start judging my faith in reference to the Sabbath (since "it is written")

Why Kenny are you keeping Gods seventh day Sabbath and feel I am judging you for keeping the Sabbath? Anyhow Colossians 2:16 is not even talking about Gods 4th commandment but that is another discussion.

That is correct. The year of Jubilee is fulfilled in Jesus - the Lord of the Sabbath - eliminated all debt, returning us to our freedom in Christ and rightful position - it is the "acceptable year of the Lord". It is the Sabbath of all Sabbaths. Did you notice that it isn't recorded that they observed any Year of Jubilee? Why? It was waiting for Jesus' redemption!

There is no scripture to support anything you have said here Kenny. There are different kinds of sabbaths in the old testament. They are all different and have a different purpose. That is not an excuse to break Gods 4th commandment which is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4).

Take Care.

 

[Kenny]

In the new covenant Gods law has the same role it always had and that is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing when obeyed) and evil (moral wrong doing when disobeyed); sin (moral wrong doing when disobeyed) and righteousness (moral right doing when obeyed).

• Romans 3:20 20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
• Romans 7:7 7, What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, You shall not covet.
• 1 John 3:4 4, Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
• Psalms 119:172 172, My tongue shall speak of your word: for all your commandments are righteousness.

The problem here is that you may end up committing spiritual adultery (Romans 7) by thinking your righteousness is found in the working of the law.

If, as I proposed, every day is a Sabbath because we are in His rest. Still fulfilling the Commandment as you suggested - the royal law of love.

 

[3rdAngel]

The problem here is that you may end up committing spiritual adultery (Romans 7) by thinking your righteousness is found in the working of the law.
If, as I proposed, every day is a Sabbath because we are in His rest. Still fulfilling the Commandment as you suggested - the royal law of love.

There is no problem because I do not think that way at all. According to the scriptures love is not separate from obedience to Gods law. Love is expressed in obedience to Gods law. This is Gods new covenant promise given to all those who are born again to walk in Gods Spirit. Gods Words says no where in the scriptures that everyday is the Sabbath. Exodus 20:10 says "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God." They are Gods Words not mine found in Gods 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-10) of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:3-17). We keep Gods commandments Kenny not to be saved but because we love God and God has forgiven us for our sins through faith in Jesus and His death for our sins. Jesus is continuing to save us from our sins *John 8:31-36 as we continue in His Word (sanctification). Jesus does not save us so that we are now free to continue practicing sin. *Romans 6:1-2. If we continue in sin we will die (Romans 8:13). We fulfill the royal law therefore by obeying Gods law from a new heart that is born again to love. This is Gods promise in all those who have faith (believe and follow what Gods Word says) *Philippians 2:13; Ephesians 2:8-9; 1 John 3:6-9.

 

[Kenny]

.

From what I read I doubt that very much Kenny. It seems people do not read the bible for themselves. They post what their church teaches them to post and when you investigate deeply into with them what they are saying it does not hold up to the scripture contexts when these are added back in for discussion. When this happens most people tend to disappear from the discussion and a detailed look at the scriptures.

I

I didn't say "all"... but quite a few people.

Agreed something that is a part of my personal testimony where Jesus taught me through His Spirit and promises found in John 7:17; John 14:26; John 16:13; 1 John 2:27 which are all a part of Gods new covenant promise found in Hebrews 8:11 from Jeremiah 31:31-34. A lot of people do not understand these scriptures Kenny. They are all Gods promises and are all conditional on John 8:31-36.

I'm sure it was a wonderful experience.

Your question is answered in the very scriptures you are quoting from Gods Rest/His Rest/My Rest of Hebrews 3:8-19 and Hebrews 4:1-11 is defined in

• Hebrews 4:3-5 3, For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4, For he spoke in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5, And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Yes... but WHAT is the seventh day for God. Did He go back to work on the eighth day? Or was it eternal.

You disagree with what exactly Kenny? You have not posted anything here that says that Romans 14 is talking about Gods 4th commandment. You are reading that into the scripture. It is not in the scriptures you're reading from or in the whole book of Romans. As posted earlier Romans 14 is about eating and not eating on days that men esteem over other days. Romans 14 is not talking about Gods 4th commandment and there is nothing in the book of Romans to suggest this. If you disagree please post scripture that proves Romans 14 is talking about Gods 4th commandment. You have to read that into a single cheery picked scripture to come up with that interpretation.

With this: "is to eating and not eating on days that men esteem over other days". And, in its application, it is about the Sabbath as you esteem a day above the other.

Why Kenny are you keeping Gods seventh day Sabbath? Anyhow the Colossians 2:16 is not even talking about Gods 4th commandment but that is another discussion.

I know you keep saying it isn't talking about God's (not Gods) 4th Commandment... but you never say what it is talking about when it specifically says "Sabbaths" which includes the 4th Commandment.

And, yes, I have entered into the eternal 7th day Sabbath because I live and move and have my being in the faith of Jesus Christ who is Lord of the Sabbath.

There is no scripture to support anything you have said here Kenny. There are different kinds of sabbaths in the old testament. They are all different and have a different purpose. That is not an excuse to break Gods 4th commandment which is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken.

I just gave you multiple scriptural support, Why is it that you say there is no support?

 

[Apostle John]

Grace is not a license to sin (break Gods law - 1 John 3:4)

• Romans 6:1-2 1, What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2, God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

In the new covenant Gods law has the same role it always had and that is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing when obeyed) and evil (moral wrong doing when disobeyed); sin (moral wrong doing when disobeyed) and righteousness (moral right doing when obeyed).

• Romans 3:20 20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
• Romans 7:7 7, What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, You shall not covet.
• 1 John 3:4 4, Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
• Psalms 119:172 172, My tongue shall speak of your word: for all your commandments are righteousness.

According to James in James 2:10-11 if we break anyone of Gods 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin

• James 2:10-11 10, For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.

Christians are those who love God and keep His commandments. According to the scriptures those who break Gods commandments do not know God and need to be born again...

• 1 John 2:3-4 3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4, He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
• 1 John 3:4-9 4, Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5, And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6, Whoever abides in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him. 7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8, He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9, Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

There fore Christians are those who have been born again into Gods new covenant promise (Hebrews 8:10-12) to love God and keep His commandments. Those who break Gods law do not know God according to the scriptures as shown above..

• John 14:15 If you love me keep my commandments
• John 15:10 10, If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
• 1 John 5:2-3 2, By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.3, For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Note the above are all new testament scriptures.

Take Care.

Yes I agree, Christians do not have license to sin.

The Holy Spirit has given me three Greek words in recent times. The first, a few years back, was Koulos. My understanding is it can mean weird or ‘no hands’ which, at that moment, took to mean I was getting no help from the helping hand that is the Holy Spirit. This, I believe in hindsight, was because I had been ignoring God’s personal instructions which can be an incredibly easy to do. He then said “I will make you a target” and sure enough, within a few days I was targeted, kept on getting spam calls pretending to be Amazon that couldn’t be stopped, then someone, while I was logged into another forum hacked my devices and put Pegasus spyware on them. Persecution can be the Christian life.

In recent months God gave me the word “Charis” meaning grace, only pronouncing the ch as in charity.

Yesterday He gave me “diphthong”. Not quite Greek but studying a word’s etymology is common in words I have to interpret. It comes from the Greek diphthongos meaning ‘having two sounds’. I think this refers to the rapture as there is a second trump involved, mentioned by Paul if memory serves right. God kept repeating “satchmo” all last year and I couldn’t understand its meaning. If a word keeps getting repeating it’s a sign I haven’t worked it out. I think it refers to the Angel that will eventually sound these calls.

 

[Kenny]

There is no problem because I do not think that way at all. According to the scriptures love is not separate from obedience to Gods law. Love is expressed in obedience to Gods law. This is Gods new covenant promise given to all those who are born again to walk in Gods Spirit. Gods Words says no where in the scriptures that everyday is the Sabbath. Exodus 20:10 says "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God." They are Gods Words not mine found in Gods 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-10) of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:3-17). We keep Gods commandments Kenny not to be saved but because we love God and God has forgiven us for our sins through faith in Jesus and His death for our sins. Jesus is continuing to save us from our sins *John 8:31-36 as we continue in His Word (sanctification). Jesus does not save us so that we are now free to continue practicing sin. *Romans 6:1-2. If we continue in sin we will die (Romans 8:13). We fulfill the royal law therefore by obeying Gods law from a new heart that is born again to love. This is Gods promise in all those who have faith (believe and follow what Gods Word says) *Philippians 2:13; Ephesians 2:8-9; 1 John 3:6-9.

Love goes beyond "obedience" to where it covers a multitude of sins. My marriage isn't about her being completely obedient, it is where mercy rejoiceth over judgment.

Gal 3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Notice again, it isn't "obedience to the law" but rather "the hearing of faith". It would appear that you would want us to commit spiritual adultery by going back to the law instead of being married to grace Romans 7

 

[3rdAngel]

.I didn't say "all"... but quite a few people. I'm sure it was a wonderful experience.
Yes... but WHAT is the seventh day for God. Did He go back to work on the eighth day? Or was it eternal.

According to the scriptures a day is from sunset to sunset. A day in the scripture is not eternal. see Genesis 1:1-31

With this: "is to eating and not eating on days that men esteem over other days". And, in its application, it is about the Sabbath as you esteem a day above the other.

Lets be honest Kenny. There is no scripture in Romans 14 or the book of Romans that says Romans 14 is talking about Gods 4th commandment.

SOME POINTS TO CONSIDER IN ROMANS 14:1-23

• [1] the days spoken of are associated with eating/drinking, not eating/not drinking.
• [2] the matter is over those 'weak' and 'strong' in faith concerning eating/drinking and days to do and not do those things on
• [3] the context deals with "One man esteemeth", and not what God esteems (Isaiah 56:1-8, 58:13; Psalms 89:34) as permanent and so, and God's word is clear about what men esteem: Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
• The Jews continually argued over which were better days to do this thing or that thing, like fasting, feasting, etc: [Matthew 9:14; Mark 2:18; Luke 5:33, 18:12 KJB]
• [4] the words for sabbath is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
• [5] the words of the seventh day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
• [6] the words for the Lord's day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
• [7] Romans 14 is in the context of Romans 13, which directly cites the latter (2nd) table of the Ten Commandments, for love to neighbour, which is also found in Leviticus 19:17-18, in the context of sin and the Ten Commandments
• [8] Romans 15 is the other end, and when combined with 1 Corinthians 8-10, the context is clear that the sabbath of the LORD thy God (Exodus 20:8-11) is not in view in the least, and is sustained by the rest of Paul in Romans by his statements on the eternal spiritual, holy, just and good Law (Exodus 20:1-17) of God, which identifies what sin is (Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)
• [9] the entire context of Romans 14 is to do nothing (even if allowed normally, yet not under special circumstances) to cause others to sin:

Romans 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

• [10] Paul never contradicts himself, and Paul's writings are scripture (2 Peter 3:16), and scripture cannot be broken, John 10:35) and does not teach transgression of God's Law (Exodus 20:1-17) at any point:

• Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
• Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
• Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
• Romans7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

• [11] the words for "law", "commandments" are never used in Romans 14
• [12] Paul in numerous places lists and upholds every single one of the Ten Commandments in the NT, including the 4th Commandment (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11) in Hebrews 3-4, etc.
• [13] Romans 14 is about excluding those things which were "doubful disputations", and not a single one of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17) were ever doubtful or to be disputed in any place in all of scripture (KJB), for the Commandment of God are "sure" (Psalms 111:7).
• [14] the words for "covenant/testament" are never used in Romans 14
• [15] the words for 'first [day] of the week' are never used in Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
• [16] none of the 'Sunday' (first [day] of the week) churches use Romans 14 to teach that I may ignore the day they gather on, even though that day is not sanctified by God in any way what so ever in scripture (KJB), and is never called "the Lord's day" in scripture, neither is it "the seventh day the sabbath of the LORD thy God".
• [17] nobody uses Romans 14 to teach I can simply stop eating/drinking on every day
• [18] anyone who quotes Romans 14, has in mind 'restrictions', rather than allowances

CONCLUSION: Nothing about God's 4th commandment in there at all. The scriptures are talking about food connected to days (eating and not eating (fasting) on days men esteem over other days. Not what days God esteems and judging others. The things that men esteem are an abomination in God's eyes. LUKE 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God There is no mention in all of ROMANS 14 of God's 4th commandment or any of God's 10 commandments. Your reading into the scriptures something it is not talking about.

.I just gave you multiple scriptural support, Why is it that you say there is no support?

Kenny that is not true at all. Post me a single scripture that says Gods 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest. You have no scripture that supports this view. Lets be honest now.

 

[Kenny]

According to the scriptures a day is from sunset to sunset. A day in the scripture is not eternal. see Genesis 1:1-31

Why didn't you answer the question... did God go back to work on the 8th day? Or was it eternal.

 

[3rdAngel]

Love goes beyond "obedience" to where it covers a multitude of sins. My marriage isn't about her being completely obedience, it is where mercy rejoiceth over judgment.

Gal 3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Notice again, it isn't "obedience to the law" but rather "the hearing of faith". It would appear that you would want us to commit spiritual adultery by going back to the law instead of being married to grace Romans 7

Not according to the scriptures. Love is not separate from obedience to Gods law it is expressed through obedience from the heart. Goodness why post Galatians 3? Who is telling you that you are saved by the law? If I have never said to you Kenny that you are saved by the law why pretend that is what I am saying to you?

 

[3rdAngel]

Why didn't you answer the question... did God go back to work on the 8th day? Or was it eternal.

I answered your question. A day according to the scriptures is from sunset to sunset and I provided scriptures in Genesis 1:1-31. There is no such thing as an 8 day week. God rested on the seventh day of the week and blessed the seventh day as a memorial for all mankind to keep as a holy day of rest and posted scripture support in Mark 2:27 and Genesis 2:1-3. There is no such thing as an eternal 8th day. It is not biblical.