WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT IS ABOLISHED?

[3rdAngel]

I'm not trying to be a pest, but again you are being technically inaccurate here. The Bible does not number the commandments. There are 17 verses, not 10, and they are grouped differently depending on the tradition of your religion. So no, the Protestant Bible does not say that the sabbath command was the 4th commandment. Protestant tradition says this.

Not to be rude or anything but you are actually quite wrong here. God did indeed write 10 commandments on two tables of stone with His own finger. So I am indeed being technically accurate to what scripture teaches....

• Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote on the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
• Deu 4:13 And he declared to you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them on two tables of stone.
• Deu 10:4 And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spoke to you in the mount out of the middle of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them to me.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

From an early time the Christians took the Sabbath to be Sunday. The remark of Paul which I quoted previously is consonant with that. Meanwhile, under the Law it's unambiguously Saturday.

Sure, there were other feast days and other holy days, but that doesn't alter the relevant commandment, which is taken to refer to Genesis's Seventh Day, Saturday.

Jesus is a practicing Jew in all four gospels, though if I recall aright, only Luke makes specific mention of his circumcision. And Paul as a former Jew would have been circumcised too. But that didn't stop Paul inventing excuses and rationalizing to junk circumcision as a requirement and sign up members to his version of Christianity ─ he was a salesman and a numbers man first and last when it came to his religion. I therefore see nothing surprising in the proposition that he advocated a Sunday sabbath, and I don't see your reference to other Jewish 'rest' days as significantly changing that.

You were just provided a detailed scripture response proving that Col. 2:16 was a reference to the ceremonial sabbaths in the annual feast days and the old covenant laws of atonement and not Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken. You were also provided Old Testament scripture showing what Paul was quoting from in using Col. 2:16 from the old testament scriptures. You were then also provided three independent Sunday keeping Greek bible scholar commentaries agreeing with everything that I posted to you from post # 855 linked and post # 856 linked that were in disagreement with you that you chose to ignore. All the evidence disagrees with your claims here. So I have nothing more to share with you on this topic accept to suggest you do not know what your a talking about and might need to do some more home work.

Your claims in regards to Paul and circumcision only shows you do not understand the laws of circumcision and what they pointed to under the new covenant. Circumcision was always a shadow law pointing to being circumcised in heart to love God and man and to have God law written in the heart to love in Gods new covenant promise. This is also the context of Col 2:11-15 before Col. 2:16-17. Circumcision of the flesh in the Old testament scriptures was only a shadow of circumcision of a new heart to love under Gods new covenant promise...

FORETOLD IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES….

DEUTERONOMY 30 [6] And the LORD your God will CIRCUMCISE YOUR HEART AND THE HEART OF YOUR DECENDENCE, TO LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND WITHYOU’RE YOUR SOUL, THAT YOU MAY LIVE.

JEREMIAH 4 [4] CIRCUMCISE YOURSELF TO THE LORD, AND TAKE AWAY THE FORESKINS OF YOUR HEART, you men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

DEUTERONOMY 10 [16] CIRCUMCISE therefore THE FORESKIN OF YOUR HEART, and be no more stiff-necked.

The new covenant is the fulfillment of the shadow law of represented Gods new covenant promise of circumcision of the heart through faith in Christ to obey His Words…

ROMANS 2 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

1 CORINTHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

This is the operation of GOD in the NEW COVENANT…

HEBREWS 8 [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

CONCLUSION; The ceremonial ordinance of circumcision was a shadow law from the Mosaic book of the old covenant pointing to a circumcised new heart to love and obey God in the under Gods new covenant promise of Hebrews 8:1-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. The shadow laws of the old covenant are now fulfilled in Gods new covenant promise to which circumcision pointed to.

To put that another way, on what basis do you say the Christians abandoned the Jewish Saturday sabbath in favor of Sunday? Because that's something they certainly did early on, though from exactly when is not clear, and perhaps as a process rather than by a single central diktat.

The abandonment came well after the death and resurrection of Jesus and well after the death of all the Apostles as they all continued to keep Gods 4th commandment according to the scriptures. In fact even Jesus expected His disciples to be continuing to keep Gods 4th commandment well into the future when talking about the signs of the last days in Matthew 24:20. The departing of Gods 4th commandment from within mainstream Christianity however was a gradual and slow one that did not take place until many centenaries later. I have a detailed historical record and reference on this topic but this topic is too big for a single post. In short momentum did not start to pick up momentum until Emperor Constantine's Sunday law edict in March 7, A.D. 321. Happy to share a full historical view with references if you are interested. Please feel free to DM me. However, throughout the times of Jesus and the Apostles after the death and resurrection of Jesus God has always had a people that have always kept His 4th commandment unbroken to this present day. This can also be verified historically.

Take Care

 

[metis]

These of course have nothing to do with God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken and are repeated in both the old and new testament scriptures.

The 10 Commandments are of the 613 Commandments binding on Jews.

Your not trying to argue now that Christians are now allowed to lie, steal and commit adultery with their neighbors spouse now are you? Hence the OP.

Nope, as they didn't fit into the "law of love" as well stated in Jesus' Sermon On the Mount.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Not to be rude or anything but you are actually quite wrong here. God did indeed write 10 commandments on two tables of stone with His own finger. So I am indeed being technically accurate to what scripture teaches....

• Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote on the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
• Deu 4:13 And he declared to you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them on two tables of stone.
• Deu 10:4 And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spoke to you in the mount out of the middle of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them to me.

Take Care.

Sure. we all agree there are ten commandments. But THE BIBLE DOESN'T NUMBER THEM. There are actually 17 verses, and it is TRADITION which groups them into 1en. NOWHERE IN YOUR BIBLE DOES IT SAY THAT KEEPING THE SABBATH IS "THE FOURTH COMMANDMENT."

 

[3rdAngel]

The 10 Commandments are of the 613 Commandments binding on Jews.

Nope, as they didn't fit into the "law of love" as well stated in Jesus' Sermon On the Mount.

There are many laws that are shadow laws in the old covenant pointing to Messiah and His role in our salvation under the new covenant. These are shadow laws pointing to Gods promised Christ and are continued and fulfilled in Jesus. However unlike these shadow laws Gods 10 commandments are His eternal laws, and the work of God alone, spoken by God and written with the finger of God on two tables of stone. The purpose of Gods eternal law in the 10 commandments is to give us the knowledge of good (moral wrong doing when obeyed) and evil (moral wrong doing when disobeyed); Sin (moral wrong doing when obeyed) and righteousness (moral right doing when obeyed) *see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and Psalms 119:172. Unlike the 613 Gods 10 commandments are all repeated in the new covenant scriptures as a requirement and standard of Christian living to give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25. You are not trying to argue are you brother that it is now alright to lie, steal and commit adultery with your neighbors wife now are you? I hope not but I know of many so called Christians that teach this unbiblical view of the scriptures.

JESUS AND THE APOSTLES OBEYED AND TAUGHT THE SABBATH saying...

• It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath - Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
• Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind - Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27
• Jesus is Lord (creator) and owner of the Sabbath - Mark 2:28
• If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest - Hebrews 4
• It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all - James 2:8-12
• Breaking it is sin - 1 John 3:4
• God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded - Revelation 14:12; 22:14; Ezekiel 20:20
• Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath - Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; 1 Corinthians 11:1; Ephesians 5:1-21; Peter 2:20-22
• The Apostle and disciples all kept the Sabbath after the death and resurrection of Jesus - Acts of the Apostles 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelation 1:10
• Jesus taught that God's people would be still keeping the Sabbath well after the death and resurrection - Matthew 24:20; Mark 13:18.

CONCLUSION: As posted earlier.. there is not a single scripture in all the bible that teaches Gods Sabbath commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. This is simply a man-made teaching and tradition handed down by the early Church after the death and Jesus and the Apostles and against the scriptures.


Take Care

 

[3rdAngel]

Sure. we all agree there are ten commandments. But THE BIBLE DOESN'T NUMBER THEM. There are actually 17 verses, and it is TRADITION which groups them into 1en. NOWHERE IN YOUR BIBLE DOES IT SAY THAT KEEPING THE SABBATH IS "THE FOURTH COMMANDMENT."

In the Hebrew and non-Catholic bibles the 4th commandment is the Sabbath commandment.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

There are many laws that are shadow laws in the old covenant pointing to Messiah and His role in our salvation under the new covenant.

There are no such thing as shadow laws -- you made that up. Furthermore, the Torah doesn't really say anything about the Messiah. It was the prophets who came later who began speaking of the messianic age and the one who would rule during that time. This is because in order to have the Messiah, Israel would have to have a king, and there was no king or notion of a king when the Torah was written.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

In the Hebrew and non-Catholic bibles the 4th commandment is the Sabbath commandment.

In the Hebrew Bible and all its translations, the commandments ARE NOT NUMBERED. It does not specificy "this is the fourth commandment." Why is this so hard for you to concede?

Let's do it this way. Give me the chapter and verse where it specifies that keeping the sabbath is the fourth commandment and not i.e. the third or the fifth.

 

[3rdAngel]

There are no such thing as shadow laws -- you made that up. Furthermore, the Torah doesn't really say anything about the Messiah. It was the prophets who came later who began speaking of the messianic age and the one who would rule during that time. This is because in order to have the Messiah, Israel would have to have a king, and there was no king or notion of a king when the Torah was written.

Not for you there is no shadow laws. Your still living in them because you do not know who they pointed to. Your Messiah has already come and you crucified him.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Not for you there is no shadow laws. Your still living in them because you do not know who they pointed to. Your Messiah has already come and you crucified him.

None of the laws "point" to anything. They are simply God's will for us, and are articulated so that we can obey.

And no, I didn't kill Jesus. I wasn't even in the neighborhood.

 

[3rdAngel]

In the Hebrew Bible and all its translations, the commandments ARE NOT NUMBERED. It does not specificy "this is the fourth commandment." Why is this so hard for you to concede?
Let's do it this way. Give me the chapter and verse where it specifies that keeping the sabbath is the fourth commandment and not i.e. the third or the fifth.

Still does not do away from the fact there is 10 commandments and the 4th in the Hebrew and non-catholic bibles is the Sabbath commandment which is the topic of this OP. What commandment is being referred to is clearly stated in the first post of this OP in order to prevent confusion.

 

[3rdAngel]

None of the laws "point" to anything. They are simply God's will for us, and are articulated so that we can obey.

And no, I didn't kill Jesus. I wasn't even in the neighborhood.

Yes for you that is true because you have closed your eyes to the coming of your Messiah so you cannot see Him. For many of us our eyes have been opened to seeing Gods Christ. Its not too late for you too..

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

According to the scriptures, no one worships God by not believing an following (obeying) what Gods Word says. This is called sin in the bible *Romans 14:23; 1 John 3:4 and no one who practices known unrepentant sin will enter into the kingdom of heaven according to the scriptures (Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; Hebrews 10:26-31). Thanks for providing your opinion but it is not one that I believe is supported by the scriptures.

So in your view, the ancients (or God) anticipated the future -- so for example, now that we have MRI machines (far too few for the demand so far), it doesn't matter and they mustn't be used on the Sabbath? "Sorry, sir, we could probably find out what's wrong, but it's the Sabbath, so you'll likely die before we're allowed to start!"

Really? Scripture is more important to you than a human life?

I hope you have a better judge than you seem to be.

 

[blü 2]

You were just provided a detailed scripture response proving that Col. 2:16 was a reference to the ceremonial sabbaths in the annual feast days and the old covenant laws of atonement and not Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken. You were also provided Old Testament scripture showing what Paul was quoting from in using Col. 2:16 from the old testament scriptures. You were then also provided three independent Sunday keeping Greek bible scholar commentaries agreeing with everything that I posted to you from post # 855 linked and post # 856 linked that were in disagreement with you that you chose to ignore. All the evidence disagrees with your claims here. So I have nothing more to share with you on this topic accept to suggest you do not know what your a talking about and might need to do some more home work.

Your claims in regards to Paul and circumcision only shows you do not understand the laws of circumcision and what they pointed to under the new covenant. Circumcision was always a shadow law pointing to being circumcised in heart to love God and man and to have God law written in the heart to love in Gods new covenant promise. This is also the context of Col 2:11-15 before Col. 2:16-17. Circumcision of the flesh in the Old testament scriptures was only a shadow of circumcision of a new heart to love under Gods new covenant promise...

FORETOLD IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES….

DEUTERONOMY 30 [6] And the LORD your God will CIRCUMCISE YOUR HEART AND THE HEART OF YOUR DECENDENCE, TO LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND WITHYOU’RE YOUR SOUL, THAT YOU MAY LIVE.

JEREMIAH 4 [4] CIRCUMCISE YOURSELF TO THE LORD, AND TAKE AWAY THE FORESKINS OF YOUR HEART, you men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

DEUTERONOMY 10 [16] CIRCUMCISE therefore THE FORESKIN OF YOUR HEART, and be no more stiff-necked.

The new covenant is the fulfillment of the shadow law of represented Gods new covenant promise of circumcision of the heart through faith in Christ to obey His Words…

ROMANS 2 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

1 CORINTHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

This is the operation of GOD in the NEW COVENANT…

HEBREWS 8 [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

CONCLUSION; The ceremonial ordinance of circumcision was a shadow law from the Mosaic book of the old covenant pointing to a circumcised new heart to love and obey God in the under Gods new covenant promise of Hebrews 8:1-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. The shadow laws of the old covenant are now fulfilled in Gods new covenant promise to which circumcision pointed to.



The abandonment came well after the death and resurrection of Jesus and well after the death of all the Apostles as they all continued to keep Gods 4th commandment according to the scriptures. In fact even Jesus expected His disciples to be continuing to keep Gods 4th commandment well into the future when talking about the signs of the last days in Matthew 24:20. The departing of Gods 4th commandment from within mainstream Christianity however was a gradual and slow one that did not take place until many centenaries later. I have a detailed historical record and reference on this topic but this topic is too big for a single post. In short momentum did not start to pick up momentum until Emperor Constantine's Sunday law edict in March 7, A.D. 321. Happy to share a full historical view with references if you are interested. Please feel free to DM me. However, throughout the times of Jesus and the Apostles after the death and resurrection of Jesus God has always had a people that have always kept His 4th commandment unbroken to this present day. This can also be verified historically.

Take Care

We appear to be doomed to disagree, so we can leave it there.

Go well.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Still does not do away from the fact there is 10 commandments and the 4th in the Hebrew and non-catholic bibles is the Sabbath commandment which is the topic of this OP. What commandment is being referred to is clearly stated in the first post of this OP in order to prevent confusion.

THERE IS NO FOURTH IN THE HEBREW. Jeez Louise.

Still waiting for the chapter and verse where it identifies the fourth commandment in the Hebrew. Tik Tok.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yes for you that is true because you have closed your eyes to the coming of your Messiah so you cannot see Him. For many of us our eyes have been opened to seeing Gods Christ. Its not too late for you too..

Or perhaps you are just imagining something that is false.

 

[3rdAngel]

We appear to be doomed to disagree, so we can leave it there.

Go well.

Well the evidence is against you as already shown in posts # 855 linked; post #856 linked and post # 862 linked that you did not address. We can agree to disagree but I do not know what you disagree with in the evidence provided in the three linked post that have been shared with you that are in disagreement with you. Thanks for the chat though.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

So in your view, the ancients (or God) anticipated the future -- so for example, now that we have MRI machines (far too few for the demand so far), it doesn't matter and they mustn't be used on the Sabbath? "Sorry, sir, we could probably find out what's wrong, but it's the Sabbath, so you'll likely die before we're allowed to start!"

Really? Scripture is more important to you than a human life?

I hope you have a better judge than you seem to be.

Jesus says its lawful to do good on the Sabbath friend.. see Matthew 12:1-12.

 

[3rdAngel]

THERE IS NO FOURTH IN THE HEBREW. Jeez Louise.

Still waiting for the chapter and verse where it identifies the fourth commandment in the Hebrew. Tik Tok.

Then there is no ten commandments in your ten commandments is there if you have no 4th? You post makes no sense

 

[3rdAngel]

Or perhaps you are just imagining something that is false.

Perhaps it is you that imaging something that is false dear friend. I have posted scripture and to me its not false but is the only standard of with is true and what is not true. Time will tell though who is telling the truth and who is not... sadly though for many at that time it will be too late for all those choose to reject Gods Word and Gods Christ.

Take Care.