Where was God...

[Trailblazer]

Ahhhhh yes, back to THAT old trump-card, where God is God and because God is God, God can do whatever God WANTS to do.
Got it...been there and done that...

And the sooner you accept it the better...
I ought to know, I have been fighting God's All-Powerfulness all my life, but I never win.....

 

[ACEofALLaces]

What you do not SEEM to understand is that there is no such thing as the future for God because God is not constrained by earthly time... Likewise, when we die and go to the spiritual world time as we know it will no longer exist... We will just exist forever and we won't be thinking of the past or the future.

You DO realize that it is rather easy to be saying things like that....and to even SOUND convincing too, if one is not paying too close attention.

It was TANTAMOUNT to my line of work to ALWAYS pay attention, especially to little nuances and sneaky little details.

The BOTTOM LINE, if one wishes to accept what you are saying, IS that the FUTURE has indeed ALREADY happened in order for your "timeless God" to actually KNOW about it.

There is absolutely NOTHING that can "happen" which has not ALREADY happened, for the God to KNOW it is "going to happen", if what you believe is really true!

I DO NOT and CANNOT subscribe to such a ridiculous position, and am rather taken aback that you actually DO. It is a BAD-NEWS belief....and NOTHING GOOD can come from it.

I do not feel that you have the slightest IDEA what all the ramifications are for such a belief. For if you did, I bet you would be one of the FIRST out of the chute, to start campaigning for some changes.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

God is the ONE who makes the exceptions, not me...
God CAN do whatever He wants to DO because God is ALL-Powerful.

See....how that particular Trump-Card works? Faced with such a conundrum, other than modifying the belief, just come up with something to permit the conundrum, and all is well again.

God can DO whatever God wants to do....even if in doing so, is a blatant contradiction, simply because it IS GOD, we're talking about here, and God can do whatEVER God wants to do, because God IS GOD.......who is going to tell God (He) CAN'T do that? It may not be right, but it's God....whatareyagonnadoaboutit?

 

[ACEofALLaces]

And so????

The comedians are right...it is a losing battle trying to argue with a woman. After over 3/4s' of a century of trying, one would think that I should realize that by now.

 

[Trailblazer]

You DO realize that it is rather easy to be saying things like that....and to even SOUND convincing too, if one is not paying too close attention.

It was TANTAMOUNT to my line of work to ALWAYS pay attention, especially to little nuances and sneaky little details.

The BOTTOM LINE, if one wishes to accept what you are saying, IS that the FUTURE has indeed ALREADY happened in order for your "timeless God" to actually KNOW about it.

N-O spells NO. You really cannot think outside the box can you? You cannot imagine that God can KNOW what has not yet happened yet -- from a human perspective -- because HE IS GOD! What about "God knows the future" do you NOT understand? It would not BE the future if it had already happened now would it?

There is absolutely NOTHING that can "happen" which has not ALREADY happened, for the God to KNOW it is "going to happen", if what you believe is really true!

I DO NOT and CANNOT subscribe to such a ridiculous position, and am rather taken aback that you actually DO. It is a BAD-NEWS belief....and NOTHING GOOD can come from it.

I do not feel that you have the slightest IDEA what all the ramifications are for such a belief. For if you did, I bet you would be one of the FIRST out of the chute, to start campaigning for some changes.

Well then please explain..... but even if there ARE ramifications there is nothing you can DO about it... It is not like you are shopping for a new pair of shoes and you can pick the ones you like best.... Reality IS Reality.

Go ahead, try to campaign to God for some changes and see how far it gets you, I have been trying that all my life and I finally had to cave.... Sometimes I get what I want though if I get really angry at God, but it could be what I would have gotten anyway, nobody will ever know. All I know is that I wanted to turn in the towel last night and apparently God had other plans for me because here I am again.......

 

[Trailblazer]

See....how that particular Trump-Card works? Faced with such a conundrum, other than modifying the belief, just come up with something to permit the conundrum, and all is well again.

God can DO whatever God wants to do....even if in doing so, is a blatant contradiction, simply because it IS GOD, we're talking about here, and God can do whatEVER God wants to do, because God IS GOD.......who is going to tell God (He) CAN'T do that? It may not be right, but it's God....whatareyagonnadoaboutit?

What totally eludes you is that there is no contradiction, you just do not understand so you are confused.
The way it works is perfectly orchestrated because God does not make mistakes, only people do.

The logical thing to do is try to understand how it works because otherwise you will just keep bucking the headwind and never get anywhere.

 

[Trailblazer]

who is going to tell God (He) CAN'T do that? It may not be right, but it's God....whatareyagonnadoaboutit?

God is always RIGHT because God is infallible.
There is nothing you can do about it because God is omnipotent and you are not.

 

[Trailblazer]

The comedians are right...it is a losing battle trying to argue with a woman. After over 3/4s' of a century of trying, one would think that I should realize that by now.

I thought you were never married?
Now the truth comes out...

 

[ACEofALLaces]

thought you were never married?
Now the truth comes out...

Didn't SAY I was married...just has been a losing battle with women all these years. Probably ONE of the reasons I never GOT married

 

[ACEofALLaces]

God is always RIGHT because God is infallible.

I guess it was all a lie then when God was said to be grieved over having created mankind. Sure doesn't sound like an infallible God to me....openly admitting to having 'made a mistake', and then ordering the rain god Baal, to let it start raining.

There is nothing you can do about it because God is omnipotent and you are not.

Yet another of those attributes, that when shown to be a real problem, is managed to be side-stepped and circumvented, by saying something like "God COULD do such and such...but God doesn't WANT to."
Exceptions....always those pesky "exceptions".

 

[Trailblazer]

Didn't SAY I was married...just has been a losing battle with women all these years. Probably ONE of the reasons I never GOT married

So there WERE women, eh????
Okay, I see now. Not the lonely bachelor I envisioned after all..
And here I was feeling all sorry for you...
You just blew your cover.

 

[Trailblazer]

I guess it was all a lie then when God was said to be grieved over having created mankind. Sure doesn't sound like an infallible God to me....openly admitting to having 'made a mistake', and then ordering the rain god Baal, to let it start raining.

That is what you get for reading the Bible. I am sure glad I escaped that fate...

Yet another of those attributes, that when shown to be a real problem, is managed to be side-stepped and circumvented, by saying something like "God COULD do such and such...but God doesn't WANT to."
Exceptions....always those pesky "exceptions".

Why not just read Gleanings and be done with it.... In it is everything you would ever want to know about God but were afraid to ask...
Then you won't have to be all confused by all the inconsistencies and God stories in the Bible.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

You really cannot think outside the box can you? You cannot imagine that God can KNOW what has not yet happened yet -- from a human perspective -- because HE IS GOD! What about "God knows the future" do you NOT understand? It would not BE the future if it had already happened now would it?

Go ahead with your off the wall explanation, even if it DOESN'T make sense, and you say that is because I am unwilling to "think outside of the box".

YOU are the one that needs to start looking closer at some the things that you are claiming, as to the ramifications and implications OF what they mean in real-time to real-people.

A LOT of the things which you say ABOUT God, if taken literally, by all things "holy' would mean that such a God does NOT actually EXIST.

To even SUGGEST that the future has already happened, (in order for the God to KNOW it), really means that OUR lives HERE on Planet Earth, are worthless and useless, since God, according to you, ALREADY KNOWS WHO WILL MAKE IT AND WHO WILL NOT MAKE IT.

ALL we are doing is going through the MOTIONS of living out our lives as though we ARE making a difference somewhere along the way.

EVERYTHING that we do, and WILL do, is ALREADY KNOWN by the all-knowing God....rendering any such notions of our having freedom of choice and free will, down the proverbial drain,,,,,for in the presence of an ALL-KNOWING GOD, there is not a THING that we can do, say, or choose to do, OTHER than what this ALL-KNOWING GOD, already KNOWS what we will do.

And ALL the excuses that you can come up with for why that is NOT true, are equally as worthless, for the very same reason....that your ALL-KNOWING GOD, already knew you would try that.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

So there WERE women, eh????
Okay, I see now. Not the lonely bachelor I envisioned after all..
And here I was feeling all sorry for you...
You just blew your cover.

While I may be a bachelor, whatEVER gave you the impression that I was LONELY when it came to female companionship?
If you notice in the profile (the other one) I declared that when it came to "children" I entered, "None that I KNOW of". There WERE a few "scares" along the way, but like I said, "NONE that I KNOW of".
I always took a cat with me, on my "jaunts"...it was a popular hit with the ladies....besides me simply actually LIKING the cat, he did come "in handy" on occasion

 

[ACEofALLaces]

That is what you get for reading the Bible. I am sure glad I escaped that fate...

There have been times when I wish that I had NOT read that book, as it has been the focal point of a lot of discussions which I would really rather NOT become involved with. But I did, as it seemed to be the "acceptable" thing to do at the time.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

Why not just read Gleanings and be done with it.... In it is everything you would ever want to know about God but were afraid to ask...
Then you won't have to be all confused by all the inconsistencies and God stories in the Bible.

I do appreciate the offer, but I cannot see myself trading 'frying pans', just because whatever is cooking IN them, might not be the same.

I do NOT believe in nor accept the more commonly known God, known affectionately in some circles as "BibleGod"....however, I am not, by any stretch of the imagination, an atheist either.

I understand God to be ineffable, and incomprehensible to finite human beings. I make no effort to comprehend the incomprehendable, and have NO TIME for anyone who CLAIMS to know.

 

[Trailblazer]

Go ahead with your off the wall explanation, even if it DOESN'T make sense, and you say that is because I am unwilling to "think outside of the box".

YOU are the one that needs to start looking closer at some the things that you are claiming, as to the ramifications and implications OF what they mean in real-time to real-people.

A LOT of the things which you say ABOUT God, if taken literally, by all things "holy' would mean that such a God does NOT actually EXIST.

In other words, God had better set things up the way you want or God cannot exist. IF you understood how it is set up it would make sense, but you'd have to do some reading. Listening to me trying to explain it is probably only making you more confused.
You STILL might not like the way God set it up if you understood, but then at least you would understand.

To even SUGGEST that the future has already happened, (in order for the God to KNOW it), really means that OUR lives HERE on Planet Earth, are worthless and useless, since God, according to you, ALREADY KNOWS WHO WILL MAKE IT AND WHO WILL NOT MAKE IT.

But why does it MATTER if God knows? WE do not know so all we can do is live our lives and hope our fate is a good one, and WE can increase our chances of that by following the teachings and Laws of Baha'u'llah. If that was your destiny it was but if not then it will be something else... But as I said that is not written in marble just because God knows since God can CHANGE what He knows according to what we DO.

ALL we are doing is going through the MOTIONS of living out our lives as though we ARE making a difference somewhere along the way.

EVERYTHING that we do, and WILL do, is ALREADY KNOWN by the all-knowing God....rendering any such notions of our having freedom of choice and free will, down the proverbial drain,,,,,for in the presence of an ALL-KNOWING GOD, there is not a THING that we can do, say, or choose to do, OTHER than what this ALL-KNOWING GOD, already KNOWS what we will do.

But that does not mean that we are not free to choose... we are choosing what God knows we will choose but that does not mean God is doing the choosing. It is best NOT to even think about what God knows and just DO whatever you would do anyway, as if God did not exist.

And ALL the excuses that you can come up with for why that is NOT true, are equally as worthless, for the very same reason....that your ALL-KNOWING GOD, already knew you would try that.

So what? Who cares what God knows we will do... ? Overthinking this just causes distress and it accomplishes nothing. We cannot know what our fate is so we should just live by our principles and hope for the best. And it is not as if God does not have ANY influence over what happens to us. We have free will, but that is intermingled with God's will so God can influence us and thus our fate at any time... You just need to put out of your mind that God knows all what will happen because it is not relevant to how we live our lives.

 

[Trailblazer]

While I may be a bachelor, whatEVER gave you the impression that I was LONELY when it came to female companionship?
If you notice in the profile (the other one) I declared that when it came to "children" I entered, "None that I KNOW of". There WERE a few "scares" along the way, but like I said, "NONE that I KNOW of".
I always took a cat with me, on my "jaunts"...it was a popular hit with the ladies....besides me simply actually LIKING the cat, he did come "in handy" on occasion

Okay, so now I know... I guess I was assuming tooooo much. BEFORE I got married at age 32, I was let's just say "on my own" and there could have been no scares.
But I am glad you were not lonely. There is something to be said for being single, although it is tougher after you have been married, unless the guy was a real loser. My husband is not that bad, he can just be annoying at times, especially when we fight about God and Baha'i in the wee hours of the morn..

 

[Trailblazer]

There have been times when I wish that I had NOT read that book, as it has been the focal point of a lot of discussions which I would really rather NOT become involved with. But I did, as it seemed to be the "acceptable" thing to do at the time.

I have never been into "acceptable" and I was never interested in religion, even after I became a Baha'i at age 17. I was not raised in a religious home so there were no Bibles and I was never curious about religion later. I became a Baha'i not because of God, but because I liked the idealistic principles. I still do not like organized religion, but I believe in Baha'u'llah.

I never read one Bible verse till I came to forums in 2013, and I still have not read the whole Bible, only chapters and verses that are pertinent to forum discussions.

 

[Trailblazer]

I do appreciate the offer, but I cannot see myself trading 'frying pans', just because whatever is cooking IN them, might not be the same.

I do NOT believe in nor accept the more commonly known God, known affectionately in some circles as "BibleGod"....however, I am not, by any stretch of the imagination, an atheist either.

I understand God to be ineffable, and incomprehensible to finite human beings. I make no effort to comprehend the incomprehendable, and have NO TIME for anyone who CLAIMS to know.

I understand, I really do, given what I just said about religion.... I never took God seriously until 2013, but I was a Baha'i 42 years before that... I never really read Gleanings until 2014 and that is when the Lights went on... What you are saying about ineffable and incomprehensible to finite human beings is mostly how you will see God described in Gleanings, only it goes into some more detail about God and Messengers of God and what they are up to, how they work together to get the job done..