Which evolved first, consciousness or senses

[Noitall]

Without the hole there is probably no loss of blood.

Without the bullet there is probably no hole.

 

[jeager106]

Without the bullet there is probably no hole.

Agreed! So don't get shot.
I've never been shot but sadly shot at and such an experience is unsettling.

 

[Pudding]

"It's not the bullet that kills you........ It's the hole". -Laurie Anderson -

It probably wasn't the hole either......probably the loss of blood.

The bullet and hole and loss of blood both responsible for the death.
Probably destiny or fate also responsible for the death... and the parents of that person also responsible for his death because if they don't bring his existence to the world the person will not die in this world because of that bullet and hole and loss of blood.

 

[FearGod]

If soul (or whatever that carries a name) was destroyed in sleep then it could not come back as the same person.

Doesn't "it could not come back" means it was absent for awhile?

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Senses without consciousness has no value, similarly consciousness without senses has no value.

How senses and consciousness evolved simultaneously, was it due to plan or just happened by chance?

** Blind Post **

It's an impossible question to answer because science has yet to define consciousness; and, consciousness is connected to awareness of one's environment; so "conciousness" is more of a combination of biological factors which does include having senses.

We've gone over with you why these kinds of questions are silly and that this isn't how evolution works. You ignore and dismiss these explanations out of hand simply because they do not conform to your presupposed view of the universe. But please; continue on. Maybe you'll learn something in the process; and beyond that, these threads are quite entertaining.

 

[FearGod]

Conscious - aware of and responding to one's surroundings; awake.

You say baby has all the senses but not conscious.
As the definition i provide, does "you say baby is not conscious" can be understand as "you say baby is not aware of and neither responding to their surroundings; you say the baby is not awake" ?

Please explain how baby is not conscious and your definition for "conscious".

I'm talking about a new born baby.

 

[FearGod]

** Blind Post **

It's an impossible question to answer because science has yet to define consciousness; and, consciousness is connected to awareness of one's environment; so "conciousness" is more of a combination of biological factors which does include having senses.

We've gone over with you why these kinds of questions are silly and that this isn't how evolution works. You ignore and dismiss these explanations out of hand simply because they do not conform to your presupposed view of the universe. But please; continue on. Maybe you'll learn something in the process; and beyond that, these threads are quite entertaining.

Did you bring any useful information here?

 

[Pudding]

I'm talking about a new born baby.

Conscious - aware of and responding to one's surroundings; awake.

You say new born baby has all the senses but not conscious.
As the definition i provide, does "you say new born baby is not conscious" can be understand as "you say new born baby is not aware of and neither responding to their surroundings; you say the new born baby is not awake" ?

Please explain how new born baby is not conscious and your definition for "conscious".

Can you answer the question now...?

 

[Noitall]

The bullet and hole and loss of blood both responsible for the death.
Probably destiny or fate also responsible for the death... and the parents of that person also responsible for his death because if they don't bring his existence to the world the person will not die in this world because of that bullet and hole and loss of blood.

I like Cruise's answer in Collateral: " I didn't kill him. The bullet and the fall killed him."

 

[FearGod]

Conscious - aware of and responding to one's surroundings; awake.

You say new born baby has all the senses but not conscious.
As the definition i provide, does "you say new born baby is not conscious" can be understand as "you say new born baby is not aware of and neither responding to their surroundings; you say the new born baby is not awake" ?

Please explain how new born baby is not conscious and your definition for "conscious".

Can you answer the question now or you'll just keep moving goal post...?

Where's the question?

The baby is not conscious while having all the senses, I'm the one asking how senses and consciousness worked in harmony.

 

[Noitall]

I'm talking about a new born baby.

So when the doctor(or midwife, take your pick) pulls out the little runt and slaps it on the butt and it yells out like a mad hyena is he/she aware of their surroundings? Hmmmm.

 

[Pudding]

How you explain that some may die while sleeping due to a gas leakage? if the soul is present then the person
should wake up before being suffocated, what do you think?

If the gas damage the body until the person cannot wake up and make the person death then the person die while sleeping due to gas leakage regardless whether he has soul.
If you think soul enables the person to wake up before being suffocated please explain why you think so.

 

[FearGod]

So when the doctor(or midwife, take your pick) pulls out the little runt and slaps it on the butt and it yells out like a mad hyena is he/she aware of their surroundings? Hmmmm.

The runt of yours will feel the same thing and it has nothing to do with consciousness.

 

[Pudding]

Where's the question?

The baby is not conscious while having all the senses, I'm the one asking how senses and consciousness worked in harmony.

You say baby is not conscious and i ask you to explain why you think baby is not conscious and your definition for conscious.

Do you see the question mark after the sentence in my post and those sentence i ask you to explain your definition for "consciousness"?
Those are my questions for you.

 

[FearGod]

If the gas damage the body until the person cannot wake up and make the person death then the person die while sleeping due to gas leakage regardless whether he has soul.
If you think soul enables the person to wake up before being suffocated please explain why you think so.

If the soul is present then it'll act to survive? the senses are there but the person not conscious.

 

[FearGod]

You say baby is not conscious and i ask you to explain why you think baby is not conscious and your definition for conscious.

Do you see the question mark after the sentence in my post and those sentence i ask you to explain your definition for "consciousness"?
Those are my questions for you.

Do babies realize what is going around them ?
Again they have all the senses but realize nothing of the surrounding.

 

[Pudding]

If the soul is present then it'll act to survive?

You have not explain why and how the soul will act to enables the person to wake up before being suffocated other than because you think so, please explain again.

the senses are there but the person not conscious.

We're talking about whether soul enable the person to wake up before being suffocated, how does the person have senses and not conscious to do with that?

 

[Noitall]

The runt of yours will feel the same thing and it has nothing to do with consciousness.

I like Descartes' definition: "I think I've been slapped on the butt, therefore I am....mad!"

 

[Pudding]

Do babies realize what is going around them ?
Again they have all the senses but realize nothing of the surrounding.

My previous post say:
[You say new born baby has all the senses but not conscious.
As the definition i provide, does "you say new born baby is not conscious" can be understand as "you say new born baby is not aware of and neither responding to their surroundings; you say the new born baby is not awake" ?

Please explain how new born baby is not conscious and your definition for "conscious".]

Why do you switch my context (bold hightlight above) to "Do babies realize what is going around them" ?

So do you think new born baby is not conscious, as in they're not aware of and neither responding to their surroundings? Or you'll again ask me to ask a baby to explain why you think they're not conscious...?

When will you ever explain your definition for "conscious" ...?

 

[Runewolf1973]

** Blind Post **

It's an impossible question to answer because science has yet to define consciousness; and, consciousness is connected to awareness of one's environment; so "conciousness" is more of a combination of biological factors which does include having senses.

We've gone over with you why these kinds of questions are silly and that this isn't how evolution works. You ignore and dismiss these explanations out of hand simply because they do not conform to your presupposed view of the universe. But please; continue on. Maybe you'll learn something in the process; and beyond that, these threads are quite entertaining.

I think the biggest problem with consciousness is that people seem to think there should be some great philosophical explanation for it, so they sit there and philosophize the sh** out of it and never really get anywhere with it. There is only one logical explanation for consciousness and that explanation is complex interactions. Science already supports this idea and would probably have a solid definition for it already if philosophers and theologians stopped confounding things. I already have my own definition for consciousness because I grew tired of the old ones: The ability to interact in a complex manner with oneself and one's environment. That's it, that's all.

So none of this vague "Conscious - aware and responding to one's environment; awake" type of definition. It's like trying to define something just by using another word that means the exact same thing. So what does "being aware and responding to one's environment; awake" really amount to? It amounts to this...interacting in a complex manner with oneself and one's environment. Seeing, touching, tasting, smelling, hearing, thinking, emotion...all are are nothing more than complex interactions.