paarsurrey
Veteran Member
You mean before Bible, all was immoral?
Note please, Bible is written after Moses.
Regards
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Which existed first "something" or "nothing"?
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
Note please, Bible is written after Moses.
Regards
Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
no, I meant only what I said.
The Bible spread morality across the globe, the morality that forms the basis of modern civilization.
Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
There's a pretty big drop off after western civilization.. but yes it is straying from the OP a little!
though it does relate to the question of what came first, why we exist at all; Where there is purpose, intent, creative intelligence, you have a power of explanation for creation that nature alone can never have.
If the first cause is will, there is a hypothetical solution to the paradox of an endless regression of automated natural processes..
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
No body knows the first cause science says it was a small ball of immense energy at immensely high temperature.
http://www.space.com/13347-big-bang-origins-universe-birth.html
(First result from Google with 'Birth of the universe')
http://www.space.com/13347-big-bang-origins-universe-birth.html
(First result from Google with 'Birth of the universe')
I wonder how you came to this conclusion.
Do you think there was something before God? If not, how is that different from saying that there was nothing before God?
Ciao
- viole
Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
"Modern Physics
A widely supported scientific theory in modern physics is the zero-energy universe which states that the total amount of energy in the universe is exactly zero. It has been argued that this is the only kind of universe that could come from nothing.[18] Such a universe would have to be flat in shape, a state which does not contradict current observations that the universe is flat with a 0.5% margin of error."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_nihilo#Modern_physics
This is mainly due to the fact that people beg the question by assuming that there are whys to be answered and purposes to be explained.
There is no evidence whatsoever of such things. Either.
Ciao
- viole
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
You mean there was no civilization before?
Regards
Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
I mean just what I said, the bible, Christianity, was the basis of the modern moral civilization we know today- hardly a controversial observation !
Yorutenchi
Member
Untrue. None of the Eastern civilizations for example had anything to do with any Abrahamic religion. The oldest known civilization is the Indians and they have also never had any connection to Abraham gods. Neither were the Greeks or The Romans. Both of which predate the bible. In fact the vast majority of the middle east has not had any major Christian influence. Islamic perhaps later in time. However pre-Islam they had no connections to Abrahamic traditions at all as the Hebrew tribes were not the primary focal tribe.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
.One should never accept out of hand the proffering of science as settled because it is not...where did this small ball of immense energy at immensely high temperature.come from? At least in the religious absolute God (Brahman) sense....it is logical that there was never a beginning for there is no magical creation needed to begin existence....but something from nothing...haha
Emi
Proud to be a Pustra!
I personally believe there was something to start the big bang. In what I believe, the big bang in itself was an entity that was sacrificed while it created the universe.
When you say the "ONE" are you disregarding any and all religions that worship multiple entities?
Pudding
Well-Known Member
Which existed first, "something" or "nothing"?
Both is equally possible, but what is the true answer? I don't know the true answer.
Something may existed first in a mystery that i don't know of.
Nothing may existed first in a mystery that i don't know of.
The ONE true [God/Creator] A/B/C/D/E...etc from religion A/B/C/D/E...etc?
God A/B/C/D/E...etc?
Creator A/B/C/D/E...etc?
Which one is the ONE from those A/B/C/D/E...etc?
I guess each to their own.
Both is equally possible, but what is the true answer? I don't know the true answer.
Something may existed first in a mystery that i don't know of.
Nothing may existed first in a mystery that i don't know of.
Who is the ONE?
The ONE true [God/Creator] A/B/C/D/E...etc from religion A/B/C/D/E...etc?
God A/B/C/D/E...etc?
Creator A/B/C/D/E...etc?
Which one is the ONE from those A/B/C/D/E...etc?
I guess each to their own.
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Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Haha, problem with the ball of energy but no problem with eternal existence of God? The only way to get out of this is 'something from nothing', as mentioned in RigVed 3,000 years ago:
"Sages who searched with their heart's thought discovered the existent's kinship in the non-existent."
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv10129.htm
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Don't mistake the temporal for the eternal....this star system once was non-existent...but every atom and all energy that constitute it preexisted it....
The logic and proof of eternal existence is that it is before your eyes....existence exists....no scientist or theologian can dispute this... If eternal existence is not true....the onus is on the something from nothing true believers to show practically how to reverse the process and make what we call real stuff become non-existent..... a nothing from something scenario...lol Until that can be done...the universe must logically be seen as real and not something that can become non-existent....ever...
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Agreed, but if the answer is that it is eternal, then we get into problems. Where did it arise from (just like the arising of God/Gods)? Where did it come from?
It is not the question of 'putting the onus' with this party or that, it is a simple question of finding out. It is a question of science and not of philosophy. Philosophy has taken us this far and cannot take us any further. Nobody denies the present existence, though we can certainly discuss its apparent appearance, perception. Some may say that what is perceived is true and others may say that what we perceive is not true. Saying that existence cannot arise from non-existence or cannot become non-existent again in a similar way is taking a position without proof and without logic. Perhaps it can. Mathematically, as with a flat universe scenario, there is no problem.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
I've already explained it....if something is real, it means it does not come and go....it never changes ever. The real has always been teal...never a moment in all eternity was it not real. Do you get it? If something did or could come into existence, it is not real...the real is eternally real....not a phantom that comes and goes...