Which existed first "something" or "nothing"?

[Ben Dhyan]

Where, everywhere the universe currently exists because it expanded, there is no center. When 14 some billion years ago, I think time is real but wasn't until expansion started. I guess time would only be real to us not god.

Ok..am I correct in understanding that you think the singularity came into existence about 14 billion years ago.....from timelessness and spacelessness?

 

[idav]

....from timelessness and spacelessness?

Pretty much but there is much disagreement on what that really entails. I think the singularity was/is god if you must ask, I am pantheist.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Pretty much but there is much disagreement on what that really entails. I think the singularity was/is god if you must ask, I am pantheist.

But there is no God in big bang theory........I understand the theist creation position of God..."Let there be light" miracle...but as I have explained elsewhere...it seems obvious to me that Genesis1 is a narrative directed at Earth natives to provide a brief explanation of how they have come into existence and where...on this planet Earth in this solar system....it is not about the creation of the universe...only this planet in the context of our star system...

 

[idav]

But there is no God in big bang theory........

Says who the atheists, meh. Science can't describe to me an all powerful omniscient timelessness that is the reason for existence and not expect me to call it god.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Says who the atheists, meh. Science can't describe to me an all powerful omniscient timelessness that is the reason for existence and not expect me to call it god.

Yes...science does not do God...it deals with the material side of existence only.. But genesis creation is not about the creation of the universe...the universe is in existence when this earth was created...and is about creation involving universal material already in existence...to form the sun and earth...

 

[idav]

Yes...science does not do God...it deals with the material side of existence only.. But genesis creation is not about the creation of the universe...the universe is in existence when this earth was created...and is about creation involving universal material already in existence...to form the sun and earth...

What does genesis have to do with it?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

What does genesis have to do with it?

Wow....you are a one man religion....do you know anyone else who thinks as you do about creation?

 

[idav]

Wow....you are a one man religion....do you know anyone else who thinks as you do about creation?

Actually you pretty much describe it pretty well though you hate when I use the word "SINGULARITY" bwahahah! Just semantics your playing.

 

[idav]

BenD, you may not like the singularity idea but it is that very idea that allows physics to enter an eternal now, the one you keep describing existed/exists.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

BenD, you may not like the singularity idea but it is that very idea that allows physics to enter an eternal now, the one you keep describing existed/exists.

That reality has not been lost on me idav......I think that much scientific technology and application has come about through ignoring the underlying divine nature...some architects and mostly builders..it is a win win actually.....but yes, it is my dharma to try and shine light on the spiritual nature...

 

[jeager106]

With nothing there can not be something.
With something there was never a nothing.
In the beginning was there only a vast vacuum?

 

[jeager106]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ that was profound, what?

 

[idav]

Wow....you are a one man religion....do you know anyone else who thinks as you do about creation?

I agree Genesis is about the earth not the beginning of the universe, but was wondering why you brought it up.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I agree Genesis is about the earth not the beginning of the universe, but was wondering why you brought it up.

I thought that was where you were coming from....most Abrahamic theists I know reject the eternal universe model as they believe the whole manifested universe only came into existence with the Genesis 1 narrative...

 

[ArtieE]

Haha,,,,of course it doesn't say so explicitly....that's the elephant in the room....if they say it was there always...it implies an eternal universe....if they say it just popped up from the timelessness....it implies a miraculous something from nothing....either way it shows big bang theory is flawed..

Nonsense. The Big Bang theory says nothing about where this singularity came from only that it was there and expanded. There are plenty of OTHER THEORIES about where it came from.

By saying they do not know...they hope that no one will point out that it does not matter if they do not know....it has to be one or the other....an eternal universe or a miraculous something for nothing one. Which one do you think the more credible?

I don't know. Those aren't even the only options.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Nonsense. The Big Bang theory says nothing about where this singularity came from only that it was there and expanded. There are plenty of OTHER THEORIES about where it came from.I don't know. Those aren't even the only options.

Ok then....all science knows is that it was there and it expanded...so the universe could be eternal...yes....it may not have had a beginning? Of course if you say it had a beginning, then we want to know from where it came and why.

But I must say I find this all bizarre, I started out trying to understand the science of big bang theory.....but as I get to the beginning part...the singularity mystery presence, and ask if it was always present or appeared from nowhere, I am told there are plenty of theories about where the singularity came from. Presumably some of those other theories includes the "God created it" theory....and "it's all a computer simulation by advance civilizations" theory? ....

 

[ArtieE]

But I must say I find this all bizarre, I started out trying to understand the science of big bang theory.....but as I get to the beginning part...the singularity mystery presence, and ask if it was always present or appeared from nowhere, I am told there are plenty of theories about where the singularity came from. Presumably some of those other theories includes the "God created it" theory....and "it's all a computer simulation by advance civilizations" theory? ....

Or that it came from a black hole in some other universe theory and on and on.

 

[Ken Ewald]

I think they meant to elaborate on why an oscillating universe is a lie.

Didn't call anything he said a lie. What's a matta for you you crazy? Reading comprehension is another class.

 

[idav]

Didn't call anything he said a lie. What's a matta for you you crazy? Reading comprehension is another class.

Didn't say you did.

Ditto.

 

[idav]

Ok then....all science knows is that it was there and it expanded...so the universe could be eternal...yes....it may not have had a beginning? Of course if you say it had a beginning, then we want to know from where it came and why.

But I must say I find this all bizarre, I started out trying to understand the science of big bang theory.....but as I get to the beginning part...the singularity mystery presence, and ask if it was always present or appeared from nowhere, I am told there are plenty of theories about where the singularity came from. Presumably some of those other theories includes the "God created it" theory....and "it's all a computer simulation by advance civilizations" theory? ....

And dozens of versions of string theory including muliple dimensions into the hundreds. I don't put faith in any particular string theory but ansering "how" would just be icing for what we already can observe is happening in this fascinating universe.