Which of all churches on earth is the only true church?

[Muffled]

Church of the Angellous

I find the Angellous teaching on Paul to be in error. If all your principles aren't true you don't qualify.

 

[Muffled]

It's a matter of degree. There are 4 divine marks, qualities, attributes or characteristics that are found in all churches, some are missing parts of each, some are missing enire "marks". The real question is: does your church has the evidence of having the fulness of all four, and if it doesn't, is it any less of a church? If your church is a means of salvation and grace, it really doesn't matter all that much at the end of the day. Just because I am approaching this question with a Catholic premise does not mean I am an exclusivist. The four marks of God are:

One
Holy
Universal
Apostolic

Each one of these attributes needs to be unpacked. And the OP needs clarification. Teaching "absolute true principles of Christ" requires doctrinal infallibility. (i.e. "...he who hears YOU [Apostles and successors] hears Me..." There are lots of churches that have lots of infallible doctrines (i.e. Jesus is God) but remember that infallibility is a negative charism; a prevention from teaching error. It is related to the first 2 marks.

The question was not whether the church exemplifies the criteria that you selected (I am not even sure those criteria are very good) but whether it is teaching the true principles of Christ.

The Roman Catholic church is still in serious error because it denies the essence of Christianity in saying that salvation is by works. The truth is that salvation is by faith.

 

[kepha31]

There is no such church. Each one has at least one erroneous teaching. No doubt that each one teaches at least one absolutely true principle of Christ although in some instances it might be hard to find among the errors.

Isa. 35:8, 54:13-17 - this prophecy refers to the Church as the Holy Way where sons will be taught by God and they will not err. The Church has been given the gift of infallibility when teaching about faith and morals, where her sons are taught directly by God and will not err. This gift of infallibility means that the Church is prevented from teaching error by the power of the Holy Spirit (it does not mean that Church leaders do not sin!)

Acts 9:2; 22:4; 24:14,22 - the early Church is identified as the "Way" prophesied in Isaiah 35:8 where fools will not err therein.

Matt. 10:20; Luke 12:12 - Jesus tells His apostles it is not they who speak, but the Spirit of their Father speaking through them. If the Spirit is the one speaking and leading the Church, the Church cannot err on matters of faith and morals.

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus promises the gates of Hades would never prevail against the Church. This requires that the Church teach infallibly. If the Church did not have the gift of infallibility, the gates of Hades and error would prevail. Also, since the Catholic Church was the only Church that existed up until the Reformation, those who follow the Protestant reformers call Christ a liar by saying that Hades did prevail.

Matt. 16:19 - for Jesus to give Peter and the apostles, mere human beings, the authority to bind in heaven what they bound on earth requires infallibility. This is a gift of the Holy Spirit and has nothing to do with the holiness of the person receiving the gift.

Can heaven bind an error???

Matt. 18:17-18 - the Church (not Scripture) is the final authority on questions of the faith. This demands infallibility when teaching the faith. She must be prevented from teaching error in order to lead her members to the fullness of salvation.

Matt. 28:20 - Jesus promises that He will be with the Church always. Jesus' presence in the Church assures infallible teaching on faith and morals. With Jesus present, we can never be deceived.
Scripture Catholic - The Church

The question was not whether the church exemplifies the criteria that you selected (I am not even sure those criteria are very good) but whether it is teaching the true principles of Christ.

The question begs the question: who has the authority to determine what the true principles of Christ are?

The Roman Catholic church is still in serious error because it denies the essence of Christianity in saying that salvation is by works. The truth is that salvation is by faith.

This is just Protestant myth. Salvation by works apart from the grace of Christ is a heresy called Pelagianism, and was condemned by the Catholic Church over 1000 years before the first Protestant was born. Catholicism does not teach salvation by works, and never has.

Granted, salvation is by faith, but not by faith alone. James 2:24 is explicitly clear that we are not saved by faith alone. see Scripture Catholic - JUSTIFICATION

 

[ninerbuff]

The one that has the most money.

 

[horizon_mj1]

The only true church resides in temple in which we choose to call a body.

 

[MurphtheSurf]

"reasoning from the scriptures", is a watchtower publication. Jehovah's witnes's material.

oh horrors!! Horrors!!

 

[Revoltingest]

Now I know why I felt a mysterious call to this thread.
Is Spidey in the Watchtower? I just might start reading it.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

If all your principles aren't true you don't qualify.

Well then I'm happy to know that I passed your test.

 

[MurphtheSurf]

Now I know why I felt a mysterious call to this thread.
Is Spidey in the Watchtower? I just might start reading it.

The picture was too gawdy, I got rid of it.
So, a catholic calls me a member of a deviant sect?

BOOOWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHA :areyoucra

 

[Revoltingest]

The picture was too gawdy, I got rid of it.
So, a catholic calls me a member of a deviant sect?
BOOOWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHA :areyoucra

Aren't we all deviants from someone's perspective?
I wouldn't be concerned.
As deviants go, the JWs are pretty decent folk....except for the paucity of cartoons in The Watchtower.

 

[MurphtheSurf]

Aren't we all deviants from someone's perspective?
I wouldn't be concerned.
As deviants go, the JWs are pretty decent folk....except for the paucity of cartoons in The Watchtower.

You of course remember such characters of the past such as BigReb, Augie, And IBELIEVEINJESUS? I'm not concerned.

 

[Draka]

Now, being that we seem to be only discussing Christian churches here my take would be that none could be considered the "true" church. Since they all have clergy who pray in front of everyone and call for others to pray in front of others, then that goes against the bible. The bible says to pray in private. Alone. In your home. Not in front of others.

NOW, if anyone has issue with that or has something else within the bible which says otherwise it just proves that there are direct contradictions in the bible. That being the case, no clear "truth" could ever be deduced from the bible as it contradicts itself and you would still have no "true" church.

 

[MurphtheSurf]

Now, being that we seem to be only discussing Christian churches here my take would be that none could be considered the "true" church. Since they all have clergy who pray in front of everyone and call for others to pray in front of others, then that goes against the bible. The bible says to pray in private. Alone. In your home. Not in front of others.

NOW, if anyone has issue with that or has something else within the bible which says otherwise it just proves that there are direct contradictions in the bible. That being the case, no clear "truth" could ever be deduced from the bible as it contradicts itself and you would still have no "true" church.

Are you sure that ALL have clergies?
Are you sure that ALL congregations put on public performances as you describe?

 

[Draka]

Are you sure that ALL have clergies?
Are you sure that ALL congregations put on public performances as you describe?

Can you name me a "church" that doesn't have those things? Wouldn't that "church" be merely a sign that says "go home to pray and keep your praying to yourself"?

 

[kepha31]

I apologice to Murph for refering to his belief system as a deviant sect. What year was the J.W.s founded?

 

[MurphtheSurf]

Can you name me a "church" that doesn't have those things?

Jehovah's Witnesses

Wouldn't that "church" be merely a sign that says "go home to pray and keep your praying to yourself"?

Not at all. We are a congregation that focuses on bible education. This frightens all other churches and clergies. The proof is in all the web sites of hate that spread lies about us

 

[MurphtheSurf]

I apologice to Murph for refering to his belief system as a deviant sect. What year was the J.W.s founded?

I accept your apology. The Christian congregation was founded at Pentecost, 33 C.E. The revival of that early congregation began in the late 19th century.
(I do know where you are going with this)

 

[Draka]

Jehovah's Witnesses



Not at all. We are a congregation that focuses on bible education. This frightens all other churches and clergies. The proof is in all the web sites of hate that spread lies about us

That is a blatant lie. You have a church, you have leaders, you gather together, you pray together. Please don't to presume to tell me differently. The bible specifically states to not be those who go out among men and pray and preach on street corners or in the midst of others so others may see you. JWs do exactly that, especially considering the door-to-door preaching.

 

[MurphtheSurf]

That is a blatant lie. You have a church, you have leaders, you gather together, you pray together. Please don't to presume to tell me differently. The bible specifically states to not be those who go out among men and pray and preach on street corners or in the midst of others so others may see you. JWs do exactly that, especially considering the door-to-door preaching.

Our disagreements make ME the liar?

We meet at a Kingdom Hall, true
We gather together for worship and pray, true.

All scriptural. Hebrews 10:24
And let us consider one another to incite to love and fine works, 25 not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as YOU behold the day drawing near


We preach where ever people are found, true.

Again scriptural. Acts 5:41
These, therefore, went their way from before the San′he·drin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy to be dishonored in behalf of his name. 42 And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus.

We do have brothers that take the lead in the congregations, but they are not clergy. Every baptised Witness is an ordained minister. Men, women, and children alike.

All scriptural. Matthew 23:6
They like the most prominent place at evening meals and the front seats in the synagogues, 7 and the greetings in the marketplaces and to be called Rabbi by men. 8 But YOU, do not YOU be called Rabbi, for one is YOUR teacher, whereas all YOU are brothers. 9 Moreover, do not call anyone YOUR father on earth, for one is YOUR Father, the heavenly One

Acts 14:23
Moreover, they appointed older men for them in each congregation and, offering prayer with fastings, they committed them to Jehovah in whom they had become believers.

Investigate what you don't know before throwing out generalizations. I know nothing of Wicca, so you won't hear me calling for you to be burned at the stake for witchcraft.
Hate is bad for your soul, keep that in mind. It will shorten your lifespan.

 

[kepha31]

That is a blatant lie. You have a church, you have leaders, you gather together, you pray together. Please don't to presume to tell me differently. The bible specifically states to not be those who go out among men and pray and preach on street corners or in the midst of others so others may see you. JWs do exactly that, especially considering the door-to-door preaching.

First of all, Draka, the gospel message was given to a community of believers, they prayed and worshipped together as a community. That's what liturgy means. It's older than the New Testament. The three fold episcopate (bishop, priest, deacon) also predates the New Testament. "Me, My Bible and My private line to God" is not community. The privatization of Christianity has done nothing but undermine Christian unity. The Lord's exhortaion to pray in secret has to do with humilty and the growth that proceeds, not by long prayers on street corners as the pharisees did. They were annoying.
Jehovah's Witnesses are seeking God in the best way they know how, as much as you and I disagree with their doctrines and their methods, but they are not guilty of inflating their egos with their evangelizing techniques.