-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Which of all churches on earth is the only true church?
- Thread starter docwholladay
- Start date
- Status
idea
Question Everything
the pharisees had the scriptures, they knew the scriptures inside and out...
Antiochian
Rationalist
Well, with the exception of not letting their critically ill children have blood transfusions, and that nasty little practice of disfellowshipping/shunning members who leave the organization or otherwise don't tow the line. At least JW's aren't using politics to try and force their beliefs on others, unlike a few other religious bodies I know of...
kepha31
Active Member
Love for the truth was a favorite theme of Pope John Paul II. Let us seek the truth about Christ and about his Church!...Let us love the Truth, proclaim the Truth! O Christ, show us the Truth! Be the only Truth for us!
Agenda for the Third Millennium Pope John Paul II
The Holy Fathers enthusiasm for the truth however is not shared by the secular world. In fact, its citizens, in general, harbor a distinct fear of the truth. This fear may be analyzed on three different levels:
1) that the truth would impose unwanted moral responsibilities on them;
2) that any association with the truth would occasion an air of pretentiousness;
3) that any claim to the truth might expose them to being wrong.
They prefer freedom from moral responsibility, absence of any holier than thou attitude and exemption from the possible embarrassment of being in error. Their fears, however, take them from the very light and meaning they long for, and plunge them into a dark void were they are trapped by a misery of their own making. Their flight from the truth is also an entrance into a world of gloom. These three fears are ill fated, as well as ill founded. First of all, truth is our only avenue to real freedom. You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. John 8:32
Ignorance may at times be blissful, but it is never illuminating. St. Augustine once remarked that he had met many people who had been deceived, but never met anyone who wanted to be deceived.
We have a natural hunger for the truth of things. No one ever asks for the wrong time. It is always the right time and the truth about things we want to learn. Untruth is not helpful, but truth is like a beacon that shows us the way. This is why the Pope titled his great encyclical on the freeing function of truth as Veritas Splendor (Truths Splendor).
When we are lost we want to learn the truth about our situation so that we can be liberated from our confusion. The truth makes us free; untruth binds us to bewilderment. The truth about ourselves awakens us to our moral responsibilities, but we need this awakening in order to become whom we truly are, to advance toward our destiny, to build a meaningful life.
We should welcome the truth that illuminates our moral responsibilities with the same enthusiasm that a person who is lost in the woods and welcomes a compass and a map.
Secondly, the fear that any discovery of truth would make us pretentious is also counterproductive. Truth is not of our own making. Even Christ proclaimed that the truth He illuminated did not spring from Him alone. My teaching is not mine, but His who sent me (John 17:6)
Truth is not subjective. It represents the objective order of things. The person who comes to know something of the truth, then should experience humility, not vanity, for he discovers something that is not his.
Christ was emphatic in his denunciation of the Pharisees who claimed to know something of the truth but behaved with a pretentious snobbery. Truth is not he cause of Pharisaism, vanity is.
And both Christ and his Church are unrelenting in their advocacy of humility and in their condemnation of vanity. In fact, it may be far less tolerant of Pharisaism than the secular world. Consider, for example, the comment, I hate anything fake, made by Britney Spears, a veritable icon of artificiality and pretense. The secular world awards this kind of duplicity with celebrity.
Thirdly, there is the rather spineless fear that in perusing the truth, we might fall into the embarrassing predicament of being wrong. Again, there is nothing wrong that can reasonably justify this anxiety. We all make mistakes. Not to try something for fear of making a mistake is akin to a paralyzing neurosis that would discourage one from trying anything.
Some people avoid marriage because they fear divorce. Others avoid friendship because they fear rejection. The pursuit of truth presupposes a certain amount of courage. If nothing is ventured, as the maxim goes, nothing is gained.
The fact that truth is indispensable for a meaningful life does not mean that it is always agreeable. Mounting the bathroom scale can be a breathless ascent, because the anxious weight-watcher knows that this simple piece of machinery tells the truth.
But he disconcerting truth that one is overweight may be exactly what one needs if exercising and dieting are to follow. The freedom that health offers may need to be preceded by the disagreeable truth that one is too fat.
Truth is as natural to our minds as oxygen is to our lungs and food is to our digestive system. It is a great mistake to regard the teaching of truth as an imposition. The Church does not, nor can she, impose truth.
Rather, she endeavors to propose truths to those who are disposed to receive them. The Vaticans Declaration of Religious Liberty states that, The truth cannot impose itself except by virtue of its own truth, as it wins over the mind with gentleness and power. The Church as Guardian of the Truth and Teacher of the Word provides food for hungry minds. She does not impose the truth; no more than do Christians impose food on hungry bodies when they practice this corporeal act of mercy. She guards it because it needs to be protected against the contamination of error. She teaches it because it is more nourishing than error. Moreover, the truth enables her to teach realistically about the truth of Christ, the truth of the Catholic Church, and the truth of man. Apostles are ministers of love, but they are also servants of the truth.
By Dr. Donald DeMarco, Professor of Philosophy, St. Jeromes College at U. of Waterloo, he is married with 5 children.
Taken from The Bread of Life Magazine, July / Aug. Volume 26 Number 3, with minor editing by me.
Agenda for the Third Millennium Pope John Paul II
The Holy Fathers enthusiasm for the truth however is not shared by the secular world. In fact, its citizens, in general, harbor a distinct fear of the truth. This fear may be analyzed on three different levels:
1) that the truth would impose unwanted moral responsibilities on them;
2) that any association with the truth would occasion an air of pretentiousness;
3) that any claim to the truth might expose them to being wrong.
They prefer freedom from moral responsibility, absence of any holier than thou attitude and exemption from the possible embarrassment of being in error. Their fears, however, take them from the very light and meaning they long for, and plunge them into a dark void were they are trapped by a misery of their own making. Their flight from the truth is also an entrance into a world of gloom. These three fears are ill fated, as well as ill founded. First of all, truth is our only avenue to real freedom. You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. John 8:32
Ignorance may at times be blissful, but it is never illuminating. St. Augustine once remarked that he had met many people who had been deceived, but never met anyone who wanted to be deceived.
We have a natural hunger for the truth of things. No one ever asks for the wrong time. It is always the right time and the truth about things we want to learn. Untruth is not helpful, but truth is like a beacon that shows us the way. This is why the Pope titled his great encyclical on the freeing function of truth as Veritas Splendor (Truths Splendor).
When we are lost we want to learn the truth about our situation so that we can be liberated from our confusion. The truth makes us free; untruth binds us to bewilderment. The truth about ourselves awakens us to our moral responsibilities, but we need this awakening in order to become whom we truly are, to advance toward our destiny, to build a meaningful life.
We should welcome the truth that illuminates our moral responsibilities with the same enthusiasm that a person who is lost in the woods and welcomes a compass and a map.
Secondly, the fear that any discovery of truth would make us pretentious is also counterproductive. Truth is not of our own making. Even Christ proclaimed that the truth He illuminated did not spring from Him alone. My teaching is not mine, but His who sent me (John 17:6)
Truth is not subjective. It represents the objective order of things. The person who comes to know something of the truth, then should experience humility, not vanity, for he discovers something that is not his.
Christ was emphatic in his denunciation of the Pharisees who claimed to know something of the truth but behaved with a pretentious snobbery. Truth is not he cause of Pharisaism, vanity is.
And both Christ and his Church are unrelenting in their advocacy of humility and in their condemnation of vanity. In fact, it may be far less tolerant of Pharisaism than the secular world. Consider, for example, the comment, I hate anything fake, made by Britney Spears, a veritable icon of artificiality and pretense. The secular world awards this kind of duplicity with celebrity.
Thirdly, there is the rather spineless fear that in perusing the truth, we might fall into the embarrassing predicament of being wrong. Again, there is nothing wrong that can reasonably justify this anxiety. We all make mistakes. Not to try something for fear of making a mistake is akin to a paralyzing neurosis that would discourage one from trying anything.
Some people avoid marriage because they fear divorce. Others avoid friendship because they fear rejection. The pursuit of truth presupposes a certain amount of courage. If nothing is ventured, as the maxim goes, nothing is gained.
The fact that truth is indispensable for a meaningful life does not mean that it is always agreeable. Mounting the bathroom scale can be a breathless ascent, because the anxious weight-watcher knows that this simple piece of machinery tells the truth.
But he disconcerting truth that one is overweight may be exactly what one needs if exercising and dieting are to follow. The freedom that health offers may need to be preceded by the disagreeable truth that one is too fat.
Truth is as natural to our minds as oxygen is to our lungs and food is to our digestive system. It is a great mistake to regard the teaching of truth as an imposition. The Church does not, nor can she, impose truth.
Rather, she endeavors to propose truths to those who are disposed to receive them. The Vaticans Declaration of Religious Liberty states that, The truth cannot impose itself except by virtue of its own truth, as it wins over the mind with gentleness and power. The Church as Guardian of the Truth and Teacher of the Word provides food for hungry minds. She does not impose the truth; no more than do Christians impose food on hungry bodies when they practice this corporeal act of mercy. She guards it because it needs to be protected against the contamination of error. She teaches it because it is more nourishing than error. Moreover, the truth enables her to teach realistically about the truth of Christ, the truth of the Catholic Church, and the truth of man. Apostles are ministers of love, but they are also servants of the truth.
By Dr. Donald DeMarco, Professor of Philosophy, St. Jeromes College at U. of Waterloo, he is married with 5 children.
Taken from The Bread of Life Magazine, July / Aug. Volume 26 Number 3, with minor editing by me.
Last edited:
MurphtheSurf
Active Member
Something for you [youtube]JAWhRqCjT9w[/youtube]
YouTube - ‪U.S Military Doctors Learn Bloodless Medicine and Surgery‬‏
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Since the church is one, the question is immaterial.
strikeviperMKII
Well-Known Member
Speaking of Jesus the Nazorean, I would agree.
MurphtheSurf
Active Member
But what happens if that "one" church is proven to be false?
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
It has never happened. Indeed, if the church is the church (and I don't see how it could be anything other than that), it cannot, by definition, be "false," for it is the body of Christ.
strikeviperMKII
Well-Known Member
All things that are not God die of their own weight.
Kate Stello
christian
the only true church is made up of living people who believe in the Lord Jesus and have trusted in His death and resurrection as the work that has saved them, it isn't a denomination or building, but people in whom the Spirit of God dwells.
MurphtheSurf
Active Member
Excellent!
MurphtheSurf
Active Member
This is so.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
You're conveniently forgetting that the church is made up of the saints "in all times and in all places."
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
and yet, you seem to think that the majority of those living people are "apostate."
What's that all about?
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The catholic church is alive and well.:yes:
kepha31
Active Member
That would make the Church visible!
kepha31
Active Member
WHAT ARE THE ROMAN CATACOMBS?
The catacombs are underground tunnels that were forged out of soft rock. They are long, marrow winding corridors. The dead were buried in the walls on either side. From time to time, going through these corridors, one comes to a wider space like a room. In these rooms the Christians would gather for the sacrifice of the Mass so as to worship free from the pagans persecutions.
Burial in the catacombs stopped when the barbarians plundered Rome. The popes removed the relics of the saints and martyrs from the catacombs. The catacombs, once abandoned, were gradually forgotten and not discovered again until the end of the sixteenth century. Most famous of the catacombs is that of St. Callistus, where many of the popes were buried after they were martyred for the faith.
HOW THE CATACOMBS BEAR WITNESS TO THE TRUE CATHOLIC FAITH TODAY
An authentic Catholic catechism, containing to true Catholic teachings, could be composed from the pictures and inscriptions on the tombs and walls of ancient catacombs of the first three centuries. Pictures, medals, and inscriptions in the catacombs identify the faith of the early Christians with the Catholic faith.
The catacombs prove that the first Christians believed that Jesus Christ is true God and true Man. They also believed in the Real Presence of Jesus in the holy Eucharist, the divine institution of the papacy, the dignity of the mother of God, the intercession of the saints, purgatory, prayers for the deceased.
The emblem of the fish, ichthys, was frequently used in the catacombs. It is a symbol of the Lord Jesus, for the Greek word ichthys means fish and its letters are the initials for Jesus Christ, Gods Son, Savior. When Christians spoke of receiving the fish, they meant to receive Jesus in Holy communion.
Frequently, pictures of our Savior in the catacombs reveal him as the Good Shepherd., carrying the lost sheep on his shoulders. This is the ancient biblical form which reveals the same message as our modern devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. A number of people are sitting around a table on which is bread and fish.
Death and resurrection were often in the minds of the early Christians, as indicated by the pictures of Noah and the ark, Jonah and the whale, Daniel in the lions den, and the raising of Lazarus. Their faith in resurrection and eternal life gave them courage in facing death under persecution. There is also the famous account of Tarsicius being martyred as he took the holy Eucharist, the bread of life, to Christian prisoners.
The eucharistic sacrifice of the Mass was offered in the catacombs on the altars under which rested the bodies of martyrs. Catholic altars even today have altar stones in which the relics of saints and martyrs were placed by bishops when they consecrated the altar stones.
A Catechism of the Catholic Church, by Robert J. Fox. Franciscan Herald Press, pgs. 20, 21
You can visit the catacombs in person or you can see the pics: http://www.catacombe.roma.it/index.html
One more thing. They did not have copies of the New Testament in its entirely because there was no full Bible as we know it until the fourth century. The authority came from the bishops who got it from previous bishops who got it from the Apostles, who got it from Christ, who got it from the Father.
The catacombs are underground tunnels that were forged out of soft rock. They are long, marrow winding corridors. The dead were buried in the walls on either side. From time to time, going through these corridors, one comes to a wider space like a room. In these rooms the Christians would gather for the sacrifice of the Mass so as to worship free from the pagans persecutions.
Burial in the catacombs stopped when the barbarians plundered Rome. The popes removed the relics of the saints and martyrs from the catacombs. The catacombs, once abandoned, were gradually forgotten and not discovered again until the end of the sixteenth century. Most famous of the catacombs is that of St. Callistus, where many of the popes were buried after they were martyred for the faith.
HOW THE CATACOMBS BEAR WITNESS TO THE TRUE CATHOLIC FAITH TODAY
An authentic Catholic catechism, containing to true Catholic teachings, could be composed from the pictures and inscriptions on the tombs and walls of ancient catacombs of the first three centuries. Pictures, medals, and inscriptions in the catacombs identify the faith of the early Christians with the Catholic faith.
The catacombs prove that the first Christians believed that Jesus Christ is true God and true Man. They also believed in the Real Presence of Jesus in the holy Eucharist, the divine institution of the papacy, the dignity of the mother of God, the intercession of the saints, purgatory, prayers for the deceased.
The emblem of the fish, ichthys, was frequently used in the catacombs. It is a symbol of the Lord Jesus, for the Greek word ichthys means fish and its letters are the initials for Jesus Christ, Gods Son, Savior. When Christians spoke of receiving the fish, they meant to receive Jesus in Holy communion.
Frequently, pictures of our Savior in the catacombs reveal him as the Good Shepherd., carrying the lost sheep on his shoulders. This is the ancient biblical form which reveals the same message as our modern devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. A number of people are sitting around a table on which is bread and fish.
Death and resurrection were often in the minds of the early Christians, as indicated by the pictures of Noah and the ark, Jonah and the whale, Daniel in the lions den, and the raising of Lazarus. Their faith in resurrection and eternal life gave them courage in facing death under persecution. There is also the famous account of Tarsicius being martyred as he took the holy Eucharist, the bread of life, to Christian prisoners.
The eucharistic sacrifice of the Mass was offered in the catacombs on the altars under which rested the bodies of martyrs. Catholic altars even today have altar stones in which the relics of saints and martyrs were placed by bishops when they consecrated the altar stones.
A Catechism of the Catholic Church, by Robert J. Fox. Franciscan Herald Press, pgs. 20, 21
You can visit the catacombs in person or you can see the pics: http://www.catacombe.roma.it/index.html
One more thing. They did not have copies of the New Testament in its entirely because there was no full Bible as we know it until the fourth century. The authority came from the bishops who got it from previous bishops who got it from the Apostles, who got it from Christ, who got it from the Father.
Last edited:
MurphtheSurf
Active Member
Alive? Yes, but barely. And not for much longer. Rev. 18:2-4
And Well? That's a matter for debate.
MurphtheSurf
Active Member
and yet, you seem to think that the majority of those living people are "apostate."
What's that all about?
That will take a lot more time to sort out than I have tonight.
- Status