Which prophecies did Jesus fulfill as to be the Messiah?

[Shermana]

As G-D said not to add nor subtract from his commandments, the only way to fulfill the law is to keep the law.

Apparently to these antinomians, God was just kidding or he had a timeframe in question or something. And when Jesus said the Laws would endure until heaven and earth collapse, he was just talking about for a few days until he was crucified apparently.

 

[Shermana]

The only thing that jesus did fulfill was he was from Bethlehem and rode a donkey. So have millions of others.

That's it.

Other so called prophesies are simply made up in the christian bible.

They are not part of the Tanach.

There may have been some prophecies that didn't make it into the Tanakh.

The Ascension of Isaiah for example, is mentioned in 2 Chronicles, but for some reason didn't make the cut. Many books are mentioned like "Gad the Seer" and the "Annals of the Kings of Judah" (mentioned in Kings) that for some reason or another got lost in the chaos.

As well we have things like the Gabriel stone.

And we have no way of determining that the "Tanakh" as we know it today were the ONLY books the Jews consulted by back then. Even the early Talmud says Sirach was considered a sacred writing for example, and whoever wrote 2 Esdras said there were "70 books hidden for the wise", which were not to be widely circulated.

For all we know, a lot of these "lost" books may have had more clearly defined prophetic indications.

 

[roger1440]

If you want to define Jesus, go and make a thhread for it.

This is to see how did Jesus did or did not fulfill the prophecies.

So far, it seems he only fulfills them if you change them a lot and then say that even then some are not fulfilled yet.

Jesus is a metaphor for Israel. Israel is it's own Messiah. That is the message of the cannonical gospels.

 

[JayJayDee]

The only thing that jesus did fulfill was he was from Bethlehem and rode a donkey. So have millions of others.

That's it.

Other so called prophesies are simply made up in the christian bible.

They are not part of the Tanach.

I supplied a list of prophesies fulfilled by Jesus starting in post 99

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3559225-post99.html

Continuing in post 100 & 101.

Can you tell me what prophesies contained in this list are NOT found in the Tanakh?

As G-D said not to add nor subtract from his commandments, the only way to fulfill the law is to keep the law.

Tell me what imperfect human can keep a perfect law?

If it were about keeping the law perfectly, we'd all stand forever condemned. God knew that no one could keep it, so that it was a continual reminder of their need for a savior. The savior came and released us from the curse of the law.


"For everyone who depends on legalistic observance of Torah commands lives under a curse, since it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not keep on doing everything written in the Scroll of the Torah.” 11 Now it is evident that no one comes to be declared righteous by God through legalism, since “The person who is righteous will attain life by trusting and being faithful.” 12 Furthermore, legalism is not based on trusting and being faithful, but on [a misuse of] the text that says, “Anyone who does these things will attain life through them.” 13 The Messiah redeemed us from the curse pronounced in the Torah by becoming cursed on our behalf; for the Tanakh says, “Everyone who hangs from a stake comes under a curse.” 14 Yeshua the Messiah did this so that in union with him the Gentiles might receive the blessing announced to Avraham, so that through trusting and being faithful, we might receive what was promised, namely, the Spirit." (Gal 3:10-14 CJB)

Those who are under law, are still condemned by it.

 

[roger1440]

I supplied a list of prophesies fulfilled by Jesus starting in post 99

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3559225-post99.html

Continuing in post 100 & 101.

Can you tell me what prophesies contained in this list are NOT found in the Tanakh?
Tell me what imperfect human can keep a perfect law?

If it were about keeping the law perfectly, we'd all stand forever condemned. God knew that no one could keep it, so that it was a continual reminder of their need for a savior. The savior came and released us from the curse of the law.


"For everyone who depends on legalistic observance of Torah commands lives under a curse, since it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not keep on doing everything written in the Scroll of the Torah.” 11 Now it is evident that no one comes to be declared righteous by God through legalism, since “The person who is righteous will attain life by trusting and being faithful.” 12 Furthermore, legalism is not based on trusting and being faithful, but on [a misuse of] the text that says, “Anyone who does these things will attain life through them.” 13 The Messiah redeemed us from the curse pronounced in the Torah by becoming cursed on our behalf; for the Tanakh says, “Everyone who hangs from a stake comes under a curse.” 14 Yeshua the Messiah did this so that in union with him the Gentiles might receive the blessing announced to Avraham, so that through trusting and being faithful, we might receive what was promised, namely, the Spirit." (Gal 3:10-14 CJB)

Those who are under law, are still condemned by it.

What you are saying is that a Gentile book makes Jewish Scripture obsolete. What’s next, Hindus going to Christians saying Christian scripture obsolete?

 

[JayJayDee]

What you are saying is that a Gentile book makes Jewish Scripture obsolete. What’s next, Hindus going to Christians saying Christian scripture obsolete?

A Gentile Book? It was written for Jews about Jews. Jesus was Jewish in case you forgot. Gentiles were always going to be part of the Messiah's blessed ones. But they did not write scripture.
He did not come to start a new religion but to clean up the old one that had become flooded with man made tradition.

If you call yourself Christian, then you must stick to what Christ taught and not make up your own stuff. :ignore:

 

[roger1440]

If you call yourself Christian, then you must stick to what Christ taught and not make up your own stuff. :ignore:

Quote a verse from any Gospel to show me the Torah is now obsolete. You don’t even have to limit yourself to the canonical Gospels.

 

[Shermana]

If you call yourself Christian, then you must stick to what Christ taught and not make up your own stuff.

Which is why Christians who reject the Law and think they aren't "under it" are basically rejecting the core of everything Jesus taught.

All those who call themselves "Christians" should consider going by what Jesus actually teaches and not looking for manmade Antinomian theologies to get out of it.

 

[Me Myself]

If the Jews chose not to believe him, who can they blame? The shepherds who were leading them allowed them to become "lost". Jesus came to gather the "lost sheep of the house of Israel". Since this was a recurring problem down through Israel's history, why would we be surprised if it happened again in Jesus' day? Israel had a habit of killing the prophets God sent to correct them. What makes you think it couldn't happen again?

Judaism, like Christendom, is a religious system that is not any resemblance to the original at all. Yet there is nothing in scripture to tell Jews that it is OK to do away with much of their religious instruction from the Bible.

Don't you have you ask why the temple was never rebuilt? It was an integral part of Jewish worship. Where does it say in the Torah that it is OK not to have a temple? What about the priesthood? No Levitical records are available to determine who is of the priestly class today, so why is that? Where are the priests?

Jews without a temple and without a priesthood is not what Judaism was originally....is it?

You are free to believe whatever you like. You are free to accept or reject Jesus as Messiah. But since you don't even identify yourself a Jewish, I am a little puzzled by your defensiveness.

Just because Jesus doesn't fulfill prophesy the way some want him to, is no reason to get snarky. Even Jews today, who look at things objectively, have to take into account Israel's history and the way God dealt with his ancient people. If God doesn't change, and there is nothing in his word that excuses change, why is Jewish worship today different from what was prescribed in the Torah?

I guess that is an admission that you do not keep all 613 mitzvot yourself then?
Do you have a scriptural excuse not to? Christians do.

I am a Christian and 'Christ is the end of the law' for us. As a Christian I do not eat unbled meat nor do I treat God's laws with contempt. Only a few "necessary things" were required of Christians. (Acts 15:28, 29) Christ came to fulfill the law and he did. It is summed up in 'the law of love'. (Matt 22:37-40; Gal. 5:14; Rom. 13:10; compare 1 John 4:20.)

Do you not see that Christ is calling all people from all nations to come together in worship of the only true God? He doesn't care what religion you come out of, as long as you get out of "Babylon the great" and come into his tent as his guest. (Psalm 15:1-5; Rev 18:4, 5) You take off your dirty shoes at the door.

Rev 21:3, 4 will be the finale of it all....." I heard a loud voice from the throne say, “See! God’s Sh’khinah is with mankind, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and he himself, God-with-them, will be their God. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. There will no longer be any death; and there will no longer be any mourning, crying or pain; because the old order has passed away.” (CJB)This does not say that God's presence (Sh'kinah) is with the "Jews", but with "mankind". The 'old order' will be gone. There will be no such thing as 'religion' in the 'new order'.

The apostle Peter said, “I now understand that God does not play favorites, 35 but that whoever fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him, no matter what people he belongs to. (Acts 10:34, 35 CJB)

When will people stop the rot, put down their egos and really listen? :sad:

So you do accept he did not fulfill all.

Actually, he missed most.

The jews are not united, the nations still worship many gods, there is still war going on and the list goes on.

If you believe the God of the bible, he said for verses and verses that his commandments were eternal, that the torah which contained his commandments is eternal. Yet you dont follow them. You pick some parts of the OT, twist them to pretend they were fulfilled and not even twisting them can you make them all be fulfilled but still miss the long long verses where God says his mitzvot are eternal.

I find it extremely hypocritical that while you do all of these you tell the people who actually are following the OT that they are doing it wrong, because of a twisted version of some few parts of it that you bought into mixed with a guy who did not fulfill all the commandments.

And then you talk about people and their ego

 

[JayJayDee]

Which is why Christians who reject the Law and think they aren't "under it" are basically rejecting the core of everything Jesus taught.

All those who call themselves "Christians" should consider going by what Jesus actually teaches and not looking for manmade Antinomian theologies to get out of it.

Didn't Jesus say that love was the law's fulfilment?

The features of the law that involved sacrifice were no longer necessary because Christ had provided the "once for all time sacrifice" that all the blood offerings of the law prefigured. Christians were no longer required to offer blood sacrifice, in fact Gentile Christians were not under any obligation to keep the law at all, since becoming a Christian only required baptism, not conversion to Judaism.

When the circumcision issue arose, amid much controversy, the older men in Jerusalem arrived at a prayerful decision concerning the necessity of circumcision of their gentile brothers.

They said.....

"28 For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!” (Acts 15:27-29)

The "necessary things" even excluded the sabbath observance.

So the principles of the law remained but the law itself was not binding upon Gentiles. Since Jews and Gentiles were brothers in equal standing in the congregation, why would they have a different set of rules to each other?

 

[JayJayDee]

So you do accept he did not fulfill all.

Actually, he missed most.

The jews are not united, the nations still worship many gods, there is still war going on and the list goes on.

If you believe the God of the bible, he said for verses and verses that his commandments were eternal, that the torah which contained his commandments is eternal. Yet you dont follow them. You pick some parts of the OT, twist them to pretend they were fulfilled and not even twisting them can you make them all be fulfilled but still miss the long long verses where God says his mitzvot are eternal.

I find it extremely hypocritical that while you do all of these you tell the people who actually are following the OT that they are doing it wrong, because of a twisted version of some few parts of it that you bought into mixed with a guy who did not fulfill all the commandments.

And then you talk about people and their ego

Good grief....now I know how Jesus felt....:banghead3

Have it your way......:ignore:

I'm done.

 

[roger1440]

The only thing that jesus did fulfill was he was from Bethlehem and rode a donkey. So have millions of others.

That's it.

Other so called prophesies are simply made up in the christian bible.

They are not part of the Tanach.

Yeah, but Jesus did it with style. According to the Gospel of Matthew Jesus rode two donkeys.

 

[Me Myself]

Good grief....now I know how Jesus felt....:banghead3

Have it your way......:ignore:

I'm done.

Of course YOU know how Jesus felt. Its a good thing it is only us with the ego problems :biglaugh:

I must admit I expected a bit more from you people.

I am truly surprised at how easily mainstream christianity falls when looked from the prophecies perspective.

I would have never expected it honestly.

 

[Me Myself]

Didn't Jesus say that love was the law's fulfilment?

The features of the law that involved sacrifice were no longer necessary because Christ had provided the "once for all time sacrifice" that all the blood offerings of the law prefigured. Christians were no longer required to offer blood sacrifice, in fact Gentile Christians were not under any obligation to keep the law at all, since becoming a Christian only required baptism, not conversion to Judaism.

When the circumcision issue arose, amid much controversy, the older men in Jerusalem arrived at a prayerful decision concerning the necessity of circumcision of their gentile brothers.

They said.....

"28 For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!” (Acts 15:27-29)

The "necessary things" even excluded the sabbath observance.

So the principles of the law remained but the law itself was not binding upon Gentiles. Since Jews and Gentiles were brothers in equal standing in the congregation, why would they have a different set of rules to each other?

So basically, when God said the law was important, he was lying.

Good call!

 

[dantech]

So basically, when God said the law was important, he was lying.

Good call!

Would you say this thread had fulfilled my prophecies?

 

[Me Myself]

Would you say this thread had fulfilled my prophecies?

So far yes

I am honstly really suprised though.

Jesus doesnt fulfill the most basic prophecies for the messiah. To the point they make up tngs like the ones in Issaiah being about the Messiah and then interpreting almah the way they want.

Its really curious o.o

 

[dantech]

So far yes

I am honstly really suprised though.

Jesus doesnt fulfill the most basic prophecies for the messiah. To the point they make up tngs like the ones in Issaiah being about the Messiah and then interpreting almah the way they want.

Its really curious o.o

I was surprised too, about 700 posts ago.

 

[Shermana]

Of course YOU know how Jesus felt. Its a good thing it is only us with the ego problems :biglaugh:

I must admit I expected a bit more from you people.

I am truly surprised at how easily mainstream christianity falls when looked from the prophecies perspective.

I would have never expected it honestly.

Christians with egos getting in the way of rational discussion?

Never!!

 

[Shermana]

So far yes

I am honstly really suprised though.

Jesus doesnt fulfill the most basic prophecies for the messiah. To the point they make up tngs like the ones in Issaiah being about the Messiah and then interpreting almah the way they want.

Its really curious o.o

Well, the fact that belief in the Abrahamic god has gone from .25% of the world population to over 51%, I'd say that's potentially evidence of a prophecy in the process of fulfillment over a course of ages.

And what figure was responsible for this radical development again?

 

[Sleeppy]

So far yes

I am honstly really suprised though.

Jesus doesnt fulfill the most basic prophecies for the messiah. To the point they make up tngs like the ones in Issaiah being about the Messiah and then interpreting almah the way they want.

Its really curious o.o

I was surprised too, about 700 posts ago.

The Messiah is not just one individual. And could never be.

In fact, the entire kingdom of God has been anointed to do the things prescribed to the Messiah. How do you get world peace from the demands of one man? How do you command Jews who don't want to return to Israel, to return? Or how do you command Muslims who require the same plot of land, to just give up and kneel to your perception of God and reality?

The reason you most likely can't answer these questions, is the same reason you haven't realized the Messiah is supposed to be you. And if you have children, them also.


Now if 'Israel' is a title ascribed by God to men, because they overcome, you will understand me. If anything, I have sown the house of Israel, and the house of Judah, with seed of man, and seed of beast. And I say to Earth, that we are to be a kingdom of priests, under our Father in heaven. It is the Father who is the Messiah to the sons of mankind.

If you suppose Elijah should precede the King, then so be it. But if Elijah were in the hearts of the fathers of mankind, he would be with the sons as well, and the Messiah's kingdom would begin to be realized.


But the land indeed remains cursed by God.