Which prophecies did Jesus fulfill as to be the Messiah?

[AmbiguousGuy]

Hello AmbiguousGuy, please explain your contradictory statements to me. First you say that certainity about the fulfillment of prophecy is an error. Then you say that you can state how prophecy fulfillment occurred. How do you reconcile your two statements?

Easy. My certainty is pretend. I use it for demonstration purposes only.

 

[Akivah]

Ah, your honesty is noted. Thank you for confirming your status as a troll.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

I wish my wife would say that.

My wife just jerks my nose ring when she wants to communicate with me.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Ah, your honesty is noted. Thank you for confirming your status as a troll.

That's what they say about Moses. Just a troll.

Me, I find that a little disrespectful.

 

[Brickjectivity]

So if he hasn't completed his job, than how could he be the Messiah.

...I'm not one of the early Christians, but I will try to excavate a possible opinion of theirs. Since the messiah is expected to die then his life's work must continue to provide long after his death. Lets suppose that Malachi 4:2 is messianic. Malachi says that "The law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem." If there are multiple generations of people in the world after the messiah has died, then somehow his work must continue even though he has died, and the law must continue to go forth. So at what point can Jews test him in that matter to know whether he's a true prophet?

Ok, now lets look at Deuteronomy 18 using my own perspective on it, so that I may answer your question within the framework that I understand. Even after a prophet has died the Jew is instructed to listen to that prophet's words according to Deuteronomy 18:15, or it would say "You must listen to him but only until he dies." (It doesn't say that.) I think Jews recorded what the prophets told them not only because they valued the prophets but because of this order. Let us say they used the test in Deut. 18:22 to decide which prophets were valid...ok then let us look at the Jews objection to Jesus. It is on the basis that he said "The Kingdom of God is at Hand" among other things; but he made clear that his kingdom was not of his era. In fact he did not make any claims to accomplish anything literally within the time frame of his own life's span. He left it open-ended and prayed that it would be completed. Then it becomes difficult I think for you to say that he didn't accomplish what he promised, because he didn't promise to accomplish it while he was alive. At the same time you don't have to listen to what he said, because it hasn't been accomplished, yet.

Do you know how many Jews, not even 20 years ago were 100% sure that the Lubavitcher Rebbe was the Messiah? They had as much faith as you could imagine. But once the person passes away, and hasn't completed his task. That's it! It's over, he isn't the Messiah. Jews didn't then go on and write a book that they called the New bible to try and render stories and accounts to make people believe that this person will indeed be the Messiah.

I cannot speak to their situation, but if the Lubavitcher Rebbe had established a work that would ultimately result in the fulfillment of messianic prophecies, then the Lubavitcher Rebbe would have accomplished an amazing thing during his lifetime.

People have claimed to be Messiahs in history. Many were believed by some. Some were believed by many. But at some point, you got to face the reality that once he hasn't accomplished his job, that you were wrong. It's okay to be wrong.

It is ok to be wrong, yes.

Ask CMike, I believe he is of the Chabad denomination. Do you know how much the Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneerson has accomplished in his life? Do you know how many followers he had, and still has after his death? The numbers are only growing and they are doing so exponentially. However no one believes he is the Messiah anymore, because he died and hasn't accomplished the prophecies.

I have no idea how any person could accomplish the wishes of all of the prophets in a single lifetime. To you it may seem possible, and I don't want to discourage you. Carry on!

 

[Akivah]

Moses! I can't find the post, but someone asked about biblical proof of the future messiah achieving military victory. That prophecy was made at Numbers 24:17-19 I see it, but not now; I behold it, but not soon. A star has gone forth from Jacob, and a staff will arise from Israel which will crush the princes of Moab and uproot all the sons of Seth. Edom shall be possessed, and Seir shall become the possession of his enemies, and Israel shall triumph.A ruler shall come out of Jacob, and destroy the remnant of the city."

Christianity is commonly understood as being 'Edom'.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Moses! I can't find the post,...

Most of the posts by and about him are bound up in the first five books of the OT, I think. You could read about him there.

... but someone asked about biblical proof of the future messiah achieving military victory.

Yeah, I'm not surprised. So many people misread the old prophecies.

Christianity is commonly understood as being 'Edom'.

OK. I don't believe in magic myself. I don't think that anyone living before Christianity could know about Christianity.

 

[CMike]

How could I possibly know that Mark existed?



That sounds about as silly as the belief that Jesus didn't fulfill all the messiah prophecies. Where do you come up with this stuff?

How do we know you exist? You could be a computer simulation who actually may be jesus?

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

How do we know you exist? You could be a computer simulation who actually may be jesus?

Of course I could be. You should test me.

The only problem with that is that if I am Jesus, I am God. And therefore my answers will be true by definition. You would have no way to grade me based on your flawed human knowledge.

I always win. It's easy.

 

[Sleeppy]

Moses! I can't find the post, but someone asked about biblical proof of the future messiah achieving military victory. That prophecy was made at Numbers 24:17-19 I see it, but not now; I behold it, but not soon. A star has gone forth from Jacob, and a staff will arise from Israel which will crush the princes of Moab and uproot all the sons of Seth. Edom shall be possessed, and Seir shall become the possession of his enemies, and Israel shall triumph.A ruler shall come out of Jacob, and destroy the remnant of the city."

Christianity is commonly understood as being 'Edom'.

Commonly?

Why is he crushing Moab and uprooting all the sons of Seth? What does owning Christianity mean? What does Seir mean?

 

[Flankerl]

Maybe he was in a good mood that day. A guy can't be a "brutal oppressor" all the time. I could see it happening. Pilate finds himself a new girl friend. He is all happy and giddy, he then says to himself, "I think I'll give this Jesus dude a break." Then the mean Jews talk him out of it.

What a good little roman you are.

 

[dantech]

Of course I could be. You should test me.

The only problem with that is that if I am Jesus, I am God. And therefore my answers will be true by definition. You would have no way to grade me based on your flawed human knowledge.

I always win. It's easy.

Kind of a puny God you have there, having been able to die so easily (twice btw) at the hands of humans.

You didn't win anything.

 

[Akivah]

Dantech, I know its hard. But stop feeding the troll. Once you stop responding to them, they generally go away.

Definition of a Troll from Wikipedia
A person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community either accidentally or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Kind of a puny God you have there, having been able to die so easily (twice btw) at the hands of humans.

You didn't win anything.

No idea what you are talking about. You'll have to back up and start from some common spot.

Who died twice? Who is my (puny) God?

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Definition of a Troll from Wikipedia
A person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community either accidentally or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

Like people who claim that Jesus obviously and unarguably fulfilled none of the messianic prophecies? Trolls like that?

I don't mind them, and if we ignore them, they'll continue to post those kinds of falsehoods.

 

[Shermana]

Moses! I can't find the post, but someone asked about biblical proof of the future messiah achieving military victory. That prophecy was made at Numbers 24:17-19 I see it, but not now; I behold it, but not soon. A star has gone forth from Jacob, and a staff will arise from Israel which will crush the princes of Moab and uproot all the sons of Seth. Edom shall be possessed, and Seir shall become the possession of his enemies, and Israel shall triumph.A ruler shall come out of Jacob, and destroy the remnant of the city."

Christianity is commonly understood as being 'Edom'.

Hmmm, sounds a lot more like Joshua.

I wonder why that one is never listed in any of those Compilation lists of Messianic prophecies.

 

[Avi1001]

Like people who claim that Jesus obviously and unarguably fulfilled none of the messianic prophecies? Trolls like that?

I don't mind them, and if we ignore them, they'll continue to post those kinds of falsehoods.

I agree with you. People who disagree with you call you a troll. Great debate technique :no:

 

[Brickjectivity]

Moses! I can't find the post, but someone asked about biblical proof of the future messiah achieving military victory. That prophecy was made at Numbers 24:17-19 I see it, but not now; I behold it, but not soon. A star has gone forth from Jacob, and a staff will arise from Israel which will crush the princes of Moab and uproot all the sons of Seth. Edom shall be possessed, and Seir shall become the possession of his enemies, and Israel shall triumph.A ruler shall come out of Jacob, and destroy the remnant of the city."

Christianity is commonly understood as being 'Edom'.

That is interesting, but in what way could someone obstruct the Messiah (in modern times) that would require a military strike?

 

[Avi1001]

No idea what you are talking about. You'll have to back up and start from some common spot.

Who died twice? Who is my (puny) God?

I am sorry that you are being spoken to this way. This sort of language is not interfaith dialogue.

 

[nazz]

I doubt it. There are many things in the christian bible that are blatantly wrong.

The most blatant one is how Pilate (the poor innocent victim) was told by the jews what to do when in fact he was a brutal oppressor of the jews who would care less about the opinion of the jews was.

Not entirely accurate. Certainly Pilate was a cruel and brutal man who thought nothing of crucifying ten Jews before breakfast. In fact, he was so brutal he even disturbed Rome who eventually recalled him. But Pilate was also entrusted with keeping the Pax Romana in his part of the world. Releasing a prisoner would be a way to appease the Jews. He favored releasing Jesus because he knew he was no real threat but crucifying him might cause a revolt among his followers.

Also the stories of how jesus was almost killed by the jews by supposedly savings someone's life on shabbos. However, any jew who knows jewish law knows that it's permissable to violate the sabbath to save a life.

Again not accurate. In the eyes of the Pharisees Jesus was performing unnecessary healings on the Sabbath. That would violate Shabbos for which the penalty was death.