While an apology was issued from NATO, this was completely absurd that it was suggested in the first place.

[Estro Felino]

Do you have any reason to believe this? I would accept as little as a piece of coherent commentary.


Which country launched an invasion?

I will answer these questions when some American tells me what the Sorosian framework was doing in Ukraine back in 2014, before Maidan.
Nuland...etc...
Since no American is willing to answer these questions, we are even.

 

[Estro Felino]

NATO does not want to be at war with Putin on accepting the Ukraine as a member.
Ukraine giving up territory to Russia might create to barrier between NATO and Russia that Russia wants and the war might then stop.
Russia does not want to lose face but wants a barrier, and no doubt Putin would like a way out of the war which secured both those things.

Europe does want this war to end today.

It's evident to me that some élites overseas do not want this war to end. Because they want to use Ukrainian soldiers as human shields against Putin.
Am I wrong? No, I am not.

 

[Yerda]

I will answer these questions when some American tells me what the Sorosian framework was doing in Ukraine back in 2014, before Maidan.
Nuland...etc...
Since no American is willing to answer these questions, we are even.

We are always even. Have you nothing?

 

[lukethethird]

I find it very telling that you are willing to blame everyone BUT the imperialist aggressor in this instance. It's very telling that you're willing to go to bat for an authoritarian country literally invading its democratic neighbour.

Sorry but I am not joining in on the hypocrisies committed here, how can I point fingers at Putin when the foreign policies of my own country disgusts me to no end? If I am going to point fingers I will point fingers at the leaders of my own country, and i will vote, which is about all I can do thank you very much. My country meddles in the affairs of other countries in a bad way and probably every bit as much as Russia does, so tell me why I should point fingers at others and be the hypocrite?

 

[Yerda]

Sorry but I am not joining in on the hypocrisies committed here, how can I point fingers at Putin when the foreign policies of my own country disgusts me to no end? If I am going to point fingers I will point fingers at the leaders of my own country, and i will vote, which is about all I can do thank you very much. My country meddles in the affairs of other countries in a bad way and probably every bit as much as Russia does, so tell me why I should point fingers at others and be the hypocrite?

Easy, just criticise people and organisations who do evil. Criticise your own government when they do it, criticise Putin's when they do it. What is happening is a war of aggression and we should criticise all wars of aggression.

 

[lukethethird]

Easy, just criticise people and organisations who do evil. Criticise your own government when they do it, criticise Putin's when they do it. What is happening is a war of aggression and we should criticise all wars of aggression.

I have labelled Putin as a war criminal on this thread and others, what else would you like, that I call him a stinky poo poo?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Sorry but I am not joining in on the hypocrisies committed here, how can I point fingers at Putin when the foreign policies of my own country disgusts me to no end?

The same way you can point at the invasions carried out by Hitler or the atrocities of Pol Pot and say "those things bad" (rather than calling them, say, "border disputes" or "internal conflicts") while also acknowledging the bad things done by the American government.

This isn't hard.

If I am going to point fingers I will point fingers at the leaders of my own country, and i will vote, which is about all I can do thank you very much.

So, literally, you cannot criticise ANY other country for doing ANYTHING? Are you serious? You have no values whatsoever that can be applied to any country other than the one you are in?

My country meddles in the affairs of other countries in a bad way and probably every bit as much as Russia does, so tell me why I should point fingers at others and be the hypocrite?

Firstly, it does not make you a hypocrite. You being IN a country doesn't make you responsible for that country's foreign policy. You are capable of criticising both.

Secondly, because America is not LITERALLY INVADING ANOTHER COUNTRY TO STEAL THEIR LAND. You can point to a lot America has done and say "America bad", but to allege that neo-Imperialism by way of global financial dominance is JUST AS BAD as a literal invasion, and to use this as an excuse to deliberately and knowingly downplay a literal invasion indicates a severe lack both of perspective and actual values.

If you're against imperialism, as you claim, you would not sugar-coat Russia engaging in outright imperialism.

But you're not anti-imperialist, you're just anti-America.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I have labelled Putin as a war criminal on this thread and others, what else would you like, that I call him a stinky poo poo?

You could stop referring to an invasion as a "border dispute" and alleging that any and all calls not to downplay the invasion (because it's an invasion) are somehow "swallowing western propaganda". Calling Putin a war criminal is about as observant and astute as calling Biden old. Try just acknowledging the reality of the situation and expressing an opinion about it that isn't just "... But America!".

 

[lukethethird]

You could stop referring to an invasion as a "border dispute" and alleging that any and all calls not to downplay the invasion (because it's an invasion) are somehow "swallowing western propaganda". Calling Putin a war criminal is about as observant and astute as calling Biden old. Try just acknowledging the reality of the situation and expressing an opinion about it that isn't just "... But America!".

Boo hoo, sorry but your beloved USA invades countries and overthrows democratically elected governments on a routine basis and it's really amazing how some, such as yourself, become truly righteous all of a sudden when another country, such as Russia, appears to do the same. It's a border dispute, and personally I don't care where the border falls between Russia and Ukraine, and why should I, and why should you?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Boo hoo, sorry but your beloved USA invades countries and overthrows democratically elected governments on a routine basis

Which has literally nothing to do with Russia and Ukraine. Also, I don't love the USA. If the only argument you can muster as an excuse for your biased framing of this invasion is "America does it too!" then you don't have an argument.

and it's really amazing how some, such as yourself, become truly righteous all of a sudden when another country, such as Russia, appears to do the same.

No, actually. I'm against both.

It's a border dispute,

No, it's an invasion. When one country enters another country with their military with the expressed intent of annexing territory, that's called an invasion. There is no contest over the border. Russia even explicitly stated that they were sending troops into Ukraine; the border wasn't disputed. It was Ukraine.

and personally I don't care where the border falls between Russia and Ukraine, and why should I, and why should you?

I care about Russia INVADING A COUNTRY.

Apparently, you don't. Imperialism is only bad when it's America doing it. But when Russia does an ACTUAL MILITARY INVASION it's not worth devoting any concern to.

A genuine anti-imperialist would have no qualms calling this an invasion and decrying Russia for its imperialism REGARDLESS of what imperialism the USA gets into. The fact that you not only won't do that, but that you're determined to downplay the invasion and constantly use the USA as a scapegoat means you're not an anti-imperialist.

You are an imperialist. You just don't like it when America does it.

 

[lukethethird]

Which has literally nothing to do with Russia and Ukraine. Also, I don't love the USA. If the only argument you can muster as an excuse for your biased framing of this invasion is "America does it too!" then you don't have an argument.


No, actually. I'm against both.


No, it's an invasion. When one country enters another country with their military with the expressed intent of annexing territory, that's called an invasion. There is no contest over the border. Russia even explicitly stated that they were sending troops into Ukraine; the border wasn't disputed. It was Ukraine.


I care about Russia INVADING A COUNTRY.

Apparently, you don't. Imperialism is only bad when it's America doing it. But when Russia does an ACTUAL MILITARY INVASION it's not worth devoting any concern to.

A genuine anti-imperialist would have no qualms calling this an invasion and decrying Russia for its imperialism REGARDLESS of what imperialism the USA gets into. The fact that you not only won't do that, but that you're determined to downplay the invasion and constantly use the USA as a scapegoat means you're not an anti-imperialist.

You are an imperialist. You just don't like it when America does it.

The easternmost regions of Ukraine had already broken away from Ukraine in 2014 after the US backed coup overthrew Ukraines democratically elected president.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

The easternmost regions of Ukraine had already broken away from Ukraine in 2014 after the US backed coup overthrew Ukraines democratically elected president.

Another lie. There was no "US backed coup". There was a mass protest, followed by an attempt to pass extremely authoritarian anti-protest laws (as well as killing many protestors) by a president who was effectively a Russian puppet, who was then forced to flee the country TO RUSSIA.

For those interested:

Revolution of Dignity - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You've also not responded to a single thing I wrote. You're not engaging with the actual political reality of the situation, and I am beginning to believe you aren't trying to. You're just trying to excuse Russian imperialism.

Because you're an imperialist.