White is a racist term!

[9-10ths_Penguin]

A blackman has dark skin.
A whiteman has light skin.


that was rather easy.

And a Redman plays lacrosse.

I think it's strange how sports team names seem to be the last refuge of "acceptable" racism.

 

[bobhikes]

Seems to me that your problem is with the words used.
Seems to me you are not wanting to address the issue of what they words mean to different people other than to whine about how some specific word does not mean what some people use it for.

I try not to label people at all(I do say try I am human)

My problem is with the words used. Saying people are Black and White today maintains the racial divide. People don't even realize they are doing it. To correct a problem sometimes all you need to do is fix a small thing.

I would ask everyone to stop using Black and White as a description for people. Yes I am whinning because I can't understand how this is going to hurt anyone. If anything it with allow people to get creative and think more. Its not going to cost you anything and could possibly force some good to come about.

Its not like I'm saying you can't say I'm Irish and proud or American and proud though thats not my cup of tea.

Just before your last post.(post 57) I posted what wikipedia says. If you read I think they point out that the terms were invented during slavery.

 

[bobhikes]

Herein lies the problem.

YOU have this hang up about the words and are trying to transfer your hangups onto me.

Agreed but in my mind for the good of others.

 

[Songbird]

And a Redman plays lacrosse.

I think it's strange how sports team names seem to be the last refuge of "acceptable" racism.

That is odd. Someone should analyze it.

 

[McBell]

Saying people are Black and White today maintains the racial divide.

Only for those who keep the divide alive and well by transferring their biases onto others.

People don't even realize they are doing it. To correct a problem sometimes all you need to do is fix a small thing.

Changing the word used does nothing to change the feelings, etc. behind the use of the word.

You have a hang up with the words black and white.

I have no such hang up.

I would ask everyone to stop using Black and White as a description for people.

Why?
I mean other than because of YOUR hang up over those particular words, why?

Yes I am whinning because I can't understand how this is going to hurt anyone. If anything it with allow people to get creative and think more. Its not going to cost you anything and could possibly force some good to come about.

Why the push for people to use other words that mean the same thing to them as the words white and black?

Seems to me it likened to using the work freak in place of the word ****.
It means the exact same thing.
Yet the word freak is ok, but the word **** is not.
Yet when you boil the meaning behind it down to to its essence, they are identical other than the word used.

So what has been resolved?
Nothing other than a particular word has been made taboo.

Just before your last post.(post 57) I posted what wikipedia says. If you read I think they point out that the terms were invented during slavery.

And?
Words change meaning based on popular usage all the time.

Unless your argument is that we for some reason have to go back the original meaning of the term, I fail to see the relevance.

 

[McBell]

Agreed but in my mind for the good of others.

How is transferring your hang ups "for the good of others"?

 

[Draka]

Intent intent intent.

Bob, just because you have issues with "white" because of your own experiences does not mean that everyone sees or uses these terms in the same way and with the same meaning. It has to do with intent.

A good example is with the word bwitch (-w). See, that word can be used to convey an attitude in general. It can be used in a derogatory manner or in a manner which embraces those traits. If some person I don't know or am at odds with were to call me that as an insult, then it is derogatory and I will take it as such. They are saying that a certain attitude of mine is a bad thing basically. However, if a friend of mine were to say it in a manner like "Draka is one tough bwitch who doesn't let anyone run over her", then I take that as a compliment. It's all about intent.

If the intent behind using the terms white and black are just meant to distinguish skin tone then it is a purely harmless intent. If, however, you attach certain negative associations to them when you use them then it makes them derogatory, and yes, perhaps racist. However, the words themselves are just descriptors and harmless unless YOU attach a bad meaning to them.

This being said, if YOU attach certain meanings to them then, as has been explained, that is YOUR issue, not everyone else's. You are deflecting your own prejudices upon everyone else in order to alleviate your own internal guilt for having those prejudices. As if by making everyone else somehow realize how wrong they are by using the terms you have issues with it somehow lessens your culpability in having those issues.

 

[bobhikes]

Intent intent intent.

Bob, just because you have issues with "white" because of your own experiences does not mean that everyone sees or uses these terms in the same way and with the same meaning. It has to do with intent.
.

Intent is correct if you refer to a person as a white person or a black person you are conveying that they are different people.

If you say dark skin color you are conveying that there skin is the only thing different.

Its really not hard to see if you think about it.

Every time you say White Guy or Black Guy you are enforcing the divide that already exists.

I thought it was a simple change for people to make that could gray the lines that divide us but apparently it is to well entrenched.

 

[Draka]

Intent is correct if you refer to a person as a white person or a black person you are conveying that they are different people.

If you say dark skin color you are conveying that there skin is the only thing different.

Its really not hard to see if you think about it.

Every time you say White Guy or Black Guy you are enforcing the divide that already exists.

I thought it was a simple change for people to make that could gray the lines that divide us but apparently it is to well entrenched.

I notice you completely disregard the rest of what I said and you're still trying to excuse your prejudice by placing the blame on all of society.

Everyone counts as different people. I don't have a clue what you are talking about. I will denote other people as white as a descriptor even though I am white. They are still a separate person and their skin tone will help to describe who they are. As was already brought up, if you were describing someone who committed a crime, would you completely leave out their skin tone as a descriptor as an attempt to be "non-racist"? Fat-lot of help you'll be.

Cop: Can you describe the assailant?
Bob: A man, wearing jeans and a t-shirt and a ball cap.
Cop: Approximate age?
Bob: Thirties maybe.
Cop: Height?
Bob: About 6ft.
Cop: Race?
Bob: I refuse to answer that on the grounds that it is a racist thing to do.
Cop: Sir, so far you've described the vast majority of men. Couldn't you give us at least his race to narrow the search?
Bob: No, that's racist and we need to move beyond that.




Oh, and by the way, "dark skin color" doesn't really help. There are really darkly tanned white people (George Hamilton anyone?) who may be darker than some light-skinned black people. You can use dark and light to be added descriptors to black and white. But just saying dark and light doesn't cover the spectrum. Not to mention that dark and light are completely subjective by comparison. Dark compared to whom? Light compared to whom? It just doesn't do the job.

 

[Kathryn]

Really?

Around here, at least with people my age, "brown" is a generally accepted term for someone of south Asian descent (e.g. India, Sri Lanka) or from certain Caribbean countries (e.g. Guyana, Trinidad... for people who aren't "black" but are still dark-skinned). I know plenty of people who use the term to describe themselves... and not in the way that people use the "n-word" to describe themselves as a way to "take the word back" or the like; it's just a generally accepted term.

Must differ from region to region.

 

[Kathryn]

What color is this person?

What color is this person?

What color is this person?

 

[Rakhel]

I have said this before and I suppose I have to say it again.

I lived in a Caribbean neighborhood. My neighbors were not of Caribbean descent. They were Caribbean. the neighborhood was full of Jamaicans, Haitians, and Dominicans, as well as from some of the smaller islands.
They will tell you they are not African-American, they are Jamaicans, or Haitians, or Dominicans. You will insult them if you call them African-American. Being the only white person in the neighborhood and being a former Southerner, I was excused this slight. Once.
(Caribbeans can be quite understanding in this area of political correctness. )
I was informed, directly, that they prefer to be called Jamaicans, or Haitians, or Dominicans. If you can't figure out which Island they are from, DO NOT call them African-Americans. Call them Caribbean, or just plain black.

 

[Draka]

Honestly Kathryn, if I were to see these children and have to describe them, I'd probably say:

in order of pics:

golden brown or "mixed" or "mulatto"
light-skinned black
tanned white or brown

I'm just trying to describe skin tone and possible race as best a person can at a glance. As most people do when they are asked to describe someone. I maintain though, it is much different if people attach certain connotations to the descriptive words. However, if one is simply trying to describe, then I really don't see an issue. We're all the human race, I just don't see an issue with using color words to describe skin tone and/or race where applicable. Do you take offense at my answers?



Oh, and may I add, while all the girls are adorable cuties, the first pic itself is just stunning. The close-up, head-tilt shot from above is really good. Kudos to the photographer.

 

[Kathryn]

Honestly Kathryn, if I were to see these children and have to describe them, I'd probably say:

in order of pics:

golden brown or "mixed" or "mulatto"
light-skinned black
tanned white or brown

I'm just trying to describe skin tone and possible race as best a person can at a glance. As most people do when they are asked to describe someone. I maintain though, it is much different if people attach certain connotations to the descriptive words. However, if one is simply trying to describe, then I really don't see an issue. We're all the human race, I just don't see an issue with using color words to describe skin tone and/or race where applicable. Do you take offense at my answers?



Oh, and may I add, while all the girls are adorable cuties, the first pic itself is just stunning. The close-up, head-tilt shot from above is really good. Kudos to the photographer.

Draka, no, I'm not offended. I'm not very thin skinned about that sort of thing. But let me point out something interesting.

Most people would use the term "black" to denote race, not simply the color of a person's skin (since obviously no one is really BLACK anyway). The child in the middle picture ("light skinned black") and the child in the last picture ("tanned white or brown") are sisters - with the same mother and father. They are both one quarter "black," one quarter "white," one quarter Sicilian (not really sure what color that would be) and one quarter Puerto Rican. I think the older sister looks Hispanic. Which I guess she sort of is.

So - is the child in the middle picture "black?" I mean - maybe she looks like it, but is she? Wonder what color SHE will think she is? What race?

All three of these little cuties are my granddaughters - the first one (and yes, everyone in the family is pretty smitten by her beauty - AND she's a sweetie!) is the first cousin of the other two.

You can see how confusing such simplistic terms of "black" or "white" can be for some people. I mean, take the oldest sister in the last picture. Many forms of paperwork (and those who study race and genetics) lump Hispanics into the "white" category. Would she be considered white because her daddy is Hispanic? If she's considered white, is her little sister white too? Wow, things sho nuff do get complicated!

(I took the first photo, by the way, so thank you -it's one of my favorites!)

 

[Draka]

Draka, no, I'm not offended. I'm not very thin skinned about that sort of thing. But let me point out something interesting.

Most people would use the term "black" to denote race, not simply the color of a person's skin (since obviously no one is really BLACK anyway). The child in the middle picture ("light skinned black") and the child in the last picture ("tanned white or brown") are sisters - with the same mother and father. They are both one quarter "black," one quarter "white," one quarter Sicilian (not really sure what color that would be) and one quarter Puerto Rican. I think the older sister looks Hispanic. Which I guess she sort of is.

So - is the child in the middle picture "black?" I mean - maybe she looks like it, but is she? Wonder what color SHE will think she is? What race?

All three of these little cuties are my granddaughters - the first one (and yes, everyone in the family is pretty smitten by her beauty - AND she's a sweetie!) is the first cousin of the other two.

You can see how confusing such simplistic terms of "black" or "white" can be for some people. I mean, take the oldest sister in the last picture. Many forms of paperwork (and those who study race and genetics) lump Hispanics into the "white" category. Would she be considered white because her daddy is Hispanic? If she's considered white, is her little sister white too? Wow, things sho nuff do get complicated!

(I took the first photo, by the way, so thank you -it's one of my favorites!)

Things are quite clear with some people in terms of black or white or Hispanic and whatnot. I mean, looking at me, there's no way anyone could take me for anything other than white. In the water, out in the sun...I could practically blind some people with the glare Some people fit squarely into certain checkboxes and others don't. Honestly, come the day no one fits into any one checkbox the world will probably be a much friendlier place...and more beautiful too. The blending of some races seems to provide some of the most beautiful people.

 

[Sweetly_Broken]

To me, I think people are just overly sensitive these days in terms of race. Someone is always wronged because of a word. A word is just a word. I've been called many things in my life, and ya just have to laugh it off.

As the great poet Bobby McFerrin said, "Don't Worry Be Happy". Ok, I'm being goofy , but I just don't get stressed about these things like some people.

I work with Hispanic, African American, Asian, Indian, Caucasian, Arabic, Jewish, etc. (yes, I'm using current accepted terminology.....even though in 20 years at least one of these will be deemed offensive). We all get a kick out of making fun of each other (even race). Just can't worry about those things. Too many more important things going on in this world. JMO

Edit. I am also respectful to all races unless I know the person likes to joke around. Just wanted to make that clear.

 

[Acim]

What color is this person?

Beautiful.

Oh wait, is beautiful even a color?

Besides beautiful, all three appear to me to have tan skin, which coincidentally the vast majority of human skin tones are or can be, if we pause and think about it.

 

[Kathryn]

I want to clarify something. I don't think that, generally speaking, "white" and "black" are racist terms. I just personally don't care much for them and don't use them often, because they are so often inaccurate. Take, for example, my two granddaughters in the second and third photos I posted. Two sisters (not half sisters either), and one may be thought of as "black" and the other as "white." Neither "description" is correct -when you consider that most of the time when we use these words, we're, either intentionally or unintentionally, using them to describe an ethnic group, not the color of their skin. If we were simply describing the color of their skin, we wouldn't use the terms "white" or "black."

The term "black" to me - especially when it's used to describe a multiracial person like Obama, or Vanessa Williams, or my kids or grandkids - DOES smack of Jim Crow days to me, when a person was considered legally "black" if they had one drop of African blood in them. Jim Crow laws were in place to determine just "who was black and who wasn't" because segregation was LEGAL. If you were black, you went to different schools, you sat at the back of the bus, you couldn't legally marry white people, you sat in the balcony at theaters, you couldn't drink from a "white" water fountain.

I am 49 years old. My first year of school was in a segregated school. Segregation wasn't illegal till I was in the second grade, and I clearly remember when the school was desegregated. For one thing, we had to throw away all our "Dick and Jane" books because they only showed white kids and that wasn't legal now.

Legal segregation based on who was "white" and who was "black" was in place not all that long ago. So - for some people of mixed racial heritage especially, these terms are considered a carry over from that disgusting era in US history.

Hope this clarifies my position.

Jim Crow laws - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia







Anti-miscegenation laws - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anti-miscegenation laws, also known as miscegenation laws, were laws that enforced racial segregation at the level of marriage and intimate relationships by criminalizing interracial marriage and sometimes also sex between members of two different "races". Such laws were first introduced in North America from the late seventeenth century onwards by several of the Thirteen Colonies, and subsequently by many US states and US territories and remained in force in many US states until 1967. After the Second World War, an increasing number of states repealed their anti-miscegenation laws. In 1967, in Loving v. Virginia, the remaining anti-miscegenation laws were held to be unconstitutional by the Supreme Court of the United States. Similar laws were also enforced in Nazi Germany as part of the Nuremberg laws, and in South Africa as part of the system of Apartheid. In the United States, interracial marriage, cohabitation and sex have been termed "miscegenation" since the term was coined in 1863. Contemporary usage of the term "miscegenation" is less frequent, except to refer to historical laws banning the practice.

Anti-miscegenation laws in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the United States, anti-miscegenation laws (also known as miscegenation laws) were state laws passed by individual states to prohibit miscegenation, nowadays more commonly referred to as interracial marriage and interracial sex. Typically defining miscegenation as a felony, these laws prohibited the solemnization of weddings between persons of different races and prohibited the officiating of such ceremonies. Sometimes, the individuals attempting to marry would not be held guilty of miscegenation itself, but felony charges of adultery or fornication would be brought against them instead. All anti-miscegenation laws banned the marriage of whites and non-white groups, primarily blacks, but often also Native Americans and Asians.[3]

In 1967, the United States Supreme Court unanimously ruled in Loving v. Virginia that anti-miscegenation laws are unconstitutional. With this ruling, these laws were no longer in effect in the remaining 16 states that at the time still enforced them.

In 1958, Richard and Mildred Loving had married in Washington, D.C. to evade Virginia's anti-miscegenation law (the Racial Integrity Act). Having returned to Virginia, they were arrested in their bedroom for living together as an interracial couple. The judge suspended their sentence on the condition that the Lovings would leave Virginia and not return for 25 years. In 1963, the Lovings, who had moved to Washington, D.C, decided to appeal this judgment. In 1965, Virginia trial court Judge Leon Bazile, who heard their original case, refused to reconsider his decision. Instead, he defended racial segregation, writing:

"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix."[25]






​

 

[bobhikes]

As Kathryn says, I do not really believe that Black and White are purely racist terms. I do believe that even used innocently they are interpeted by a large portion of racists that you support there views.

Your mind understands your meaning my mind understands your words as they fit my meaning.

This is my last post. I do think the world would be much better if we all stop using Black, White, Red, Yellow and Brown (people, guys, girls and child). If you want to say The guy with the brown or dark skin color I'm fine with that it indicates that only skin color is different. I know were all lazy but just think about it you have to add one word.


The past is the past the future is ours to make.

 

[Yerda]

When you use the word white to describe yourself or a person aren't you being racist?

I'm actually pale blue. It takes me a week of sunbathing to turn white.

- Billy Connolly