White student returns scholarship intended for black students

[MD]

Scholarships and affirmative action should only be strictly for economically disadvantaged groups. I've had rich black friend reap the benefits of affirmative action, and poor asian friends told pretty much to their face that the 'quota' for asians has been met in higher education.

It's truly sad.

 

[Kathryn]

Scholarships and affirmative action should only be strictly for economically disadvantaged groups. I've had rich black friend reap the benefits of affirmative action, and poor asian friends told pretty much to their face that the 'quota' for asians has been met in higher education.

It's truly sad.

So you honestly think that if private individuals want to give a scholarship to someone - for whatever reason - they should not be allowed to target special interest groups?

Affirmative action is a government program. Scholarships are private programs, offered via private individuals and organizations.

There's a BIG difference.

 

[Caladan]

There's a scholarship program for white kids? Where?

Apparently there are as Kathryn showed. But I have to say that the sheer stupidity of having a scholarship based on a 'white' ethnicity is quite evident. I understand scholarships based on a status of minority or on status of being an international student. I don't see much sense in grating scholarships for the dominant ethnicity.

 

[Me Myself]

Apparently there are as Kathryn showed. But I have to say that the sheer stupidity of having a scholarship based on a 'white' ethnicity is quite evident. I understand scholarships based on a status of minority or on status of being an international student. I don't see much sense in grating scholarships for the dominant ethnicity.

Which statistics back up what you are saying?

 

[Caladan]

Which statistics back up what you are saying?

Elaborate a little more po-favor.

 

[Storm]

Which statistics back up what you are saying?

Since when does one need to cite studies to prove that whites are dominant in the USA?

 

[Me Myself]

Since when does one need to cite studies to prove that whites are dominant in the USA?

But what does them being majority has to do with anything?

I would be interested in other kinds of studies. For example:

Which porcentage of white people that were elegible for this school was admited? which porcentage of white people are in the contry ? (relating to prior porcentage) How many times someone has been rejected by the school because of being black, and a white person with worst qualifications took his job? How many times the opposite happened?

Etc.

It´s not about people of x race getting advantage. If people who truly diserve the job or college place take such place.

Neither black guy should be in job even though there was a better qualified white guy because there was a quota to fill should be okay nor white guy got the job because he is white and I turned off a better qualified minor ethnicity be okay.

 

[Caladan]

Do you understand the topic of discussion? we are talking about scholarships. When someone receives a monetary aid based on merit, needs, ethnicity, gender, or the demands for the profession they pursuit.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Scholarships for white males only:

Texas Group Will Offer Scholarships To White Men Only

Texas Nonprofit Gives Scholarships to White Males - ABC News

If you read the article you'll find this scholarship is the only one of its kind, and its founders have been accused of bigotry. That sort of proves my point, no? This is the exception which proves the rule: there aren't scholarships for white males (correct me if I'm wrong).

Again I'm not really passionately against the OP. But my conservative friends would call it ridiculous and unfair, and contrary to the goal of an equal opportunity society, and no matter how hard I squint I can't make out how they would be wrong.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I don't think I would feel comfortable with a scholarship program limited to White kids. So why should I feel comfortable with a scholarship program limited to Black kids?

EXACTLY. Thank you Sunstone. This is what I am struggling with.

 

[Kathryn]

Interesting. I have no trouble with a privately funded scholarship being awarded to whoever the private organization wants to give it to.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Apparently there are as Kathryn showed. But I have to say that the sheer stupidity of having a scholarship based on a 'white' ethnicity is quite evident. I understand scholarships based on a status of minority or on status of being an international student. I don't see much sense in grating scholarships for the dominant ethnicity.

Neither do I, of course. I realize I am questioning a long-accepted practice among liberals, but I really think it may be time to re-examine these practices critically. Allow me to play devil's advocate.

(1) Kathryn found a single (one, Roman numeral I) $500 scholarship started by an Iraq vet / student, specifically because there are many scholarships for other ethnicities, but none for whites. The founder of the scholarship (a white student and Iraq vet) has been accused of bigotry and NO ONE is supporting his efforts (not the state of Texas, or his university). So this is really the exception that proves the rule.

(2) Whites are underrepresented sometimes, at various universities, institutions, and companies. Whites are underrepresented at my university, for example. Yet if someone were to propose a scholarship for which only white students are eligible, it would likely create serious controversy. Why?

 

[Kathryn]

Neither do I, of course. I realize I am questioning a long-accepted practice among liberals, but I really think it may be time to re-examine these practices critically. Allow me to play devil's advocate.

(1) Kathryn found a single (one, Roman numeral I) $500 scholarship started by an Iraq vet / student, specifically because there are many scholarships for other ethnicities, but none for whites. The founder of the scholarship (a white student and Iraq vet) has been accused of bigotry and NO ONE is supporting his efforts (not the state of Texas, or his university). So this is really the exception that proves the rule.

(2) Whites are underrepresented sometimes, at various universities, institutions, and companies. Whites are underrepresented at my university, for example. Yet if someone were to propose a scholarship for which only white students are eligible, it would likely create serious controversy. Why?

Someone asked for an example of a scholarship for white kids and I found one.

Meanwhile, here's a breakdown of awarded scholarships BY RACE.

Scholarships Go Disproportionately To White Students | ThinkProgress

Seems white people get plenty of scholarships. Do they get TOO many? Not enough? Just right? I have no idea.

My main point is that private individuals and private entities should be able to give scholarship money to whoever they want - based on whatever criteria they want to define.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Interesting. I have no trouble with a privately funded scholarship being awarded to whoever the private organization wants to give it to.

I agree this should be legal. But do you really have no trouble with it?

Suppose Bill Gates sets up a scholarship for whites only. How could one possibly not see that as troubling? This would be fundamentally similar to setting up a hotel for whites only -- segregation all over again.

Didn't Martin Luther King say something about people being judged by the content of their character, and not by the color of their skin?

 

[Kathryn]

Here was a good answer, by the way, by someone I don't know on another website:

Minority groups in the United States have been historically mistreated and discriminated against, which has led to their holding a lower economic position. For decades after the Civil War, for example, men and women who sought to advance African American educational opportunities or to gain an education themselves faced the terror of lynchings, involving the brutal murder and torture of their family members and selves. Scholarships targeting underprivileged groups are, in essence corrective measures. The majority of scholarships, however, are open to all races and frequently based on financial need. I am a white woman of limited means who received her undergraduate with the help of loans, grants, and scholarships and am currently working on my masters degree. Focusing on the scholarships available to ethnic groups, rather than the many, many scholarships available to yourself holds the danger of blinding you to the opportunities available.

Why are there no 'WHITE" people scholarships? - Yahoo! Answers

I've bolded the parts that "spoke to me" the loudest.

 

[Me Myself]

Do you understand the topic of discussion? we are talking about scholarships. When someone receives a monetary aid based on merit, needs, ethnicity, gender, or the demands for the profession they pursuit.

I kinda have a problem with gender and ethnicity.

 

[Kathryn]

I agree this should be legal. But do you really have no trouble with it?

Suppose Bill Gates sets up a scholarship for whites only. How could one possibly not see that as troubling? This would be fundamentally similar to setting up a hotel for whites only -- segregation all over again.

Didn't Martin Luther King say something about people being judged by the content of their character, and not by the color of their skin?

I might find something offensive -but that doesn't mean I lose any sleep over it. People have a right to be wrong, ya know?

I'm more concerned with personal freedom.

As I stated earlier, my husband and I are in the process of setting up a scholarship fund. The scope is going to be VERY narrow. It will be ONLY for children who are part of the Big Brother/Big Sister organization, who have one parent, or no parents, and who need financial assistance to continue their education. It will not be dependent on GPA. It will not be dependent on gender or race. But it WILL be dependent on whether or not they have two parents in their lives.

Is this discriminatory to all those other kids who may be just as "worth investing in" but who aren't part of the Big Brother/Big Sister program? What about all those kids who SHOULD have been part of that program but never had the opportunity? Why should we "exclude" them? Even if it's legal, is it right?

Yes, we plan on being discriminatory. Is this wrong?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Someone asked for an example of a scholarship for white kids and I found one.

Meanwhile, here's a breakdown of awarded scholarships BY RACE.

Scholarships Go Disproportionately To White Students | ThinkProgress

Seems white people get plenty of scholarships. Do they get TOO many? Not enough? Just right? I have no idea.

My main point is that private individuals and private entities should be able to give scholarship money to whoever they want - based on whatever criteria they want to define.

Legally, yes. Agreed. No one on this thread has argued this should be illegal.

The question is should private entities use skin color as an eligibility criterion?

Once again, if one bothers to read the link you posted (instead of just reading the title), one finds that the cause of whites being 10% over-represented in college scholarships is not due to racial criteria. The over-representation of whites is a symptom, and the cause has to do with socioeconomic factors (presumably income level, where you went to high school, are you from a single-parent home, etc.).

The (flawed, i.m.o.) politically correct answer is to fix the symptom by giving scholarships to racial minorities. The proper answer (i.m.o.) is to treat the cause, by giving scholarships based on need. It seems to me the politically correct response dovetails nicely with the real goals of private universities: enlarge their endowments by accepting the rich, advantaged kids, but give the appearance of social charity and diversity by accepting racial minorities.

 

[Kathryn]

I bet some white people qualify for THESE scholarships:

Polish-American scholarships ~ 57,100
Irish American scholarships ~ 131,000
Italian American scholarships ~ 223,000
Jewish scholarships ~ 808,000
German American scholarships ~ 142,000
One Million White Ethnic Scholarships Don’t Trouble Student Group Protesting Minority Scholarships


Pulaski Merit Scholarships - Polish
Abraham Fellowship - Jewish
Mitchell Scholarships - Irish
Irish American Scholarship Fund
UWM Polish-American Scholarship
Association of Italian American Charities Dr. Frank C. Marino Memorial Scholarship
Polish-American FREEDOM FOUNDATION Lane Kirkland Scholarship Program
Trans-Canada Alliance of German-Canadians - Scholarship
Jewish War Veterans National Scholarship Program
Walter N. and Frances Hnatiuk Scholarship - Ukranian
The Kosciuszko Foundation's Tuition Scholarships for Polish Americans
Marinelli Scholarship - Italian
Irish-American Scholars Program
Starkoff Fellowship- Jewish
Polish-American Congress Scholarship
Augustus Society Italian Scholarships
Kosciuszko Foundation Tuition Scholarship - Polish
Deutscher Brüderliche Bund Scholarship - German
Petryshyn Memorial Scholarship - Ukranian
Norman R. Peterson Italian Scholarship
Ethel Marcus Memorial Fellowship - Jewish
Polish Scholarship Fund, Inc.
National Italian American Foundation Assunta Luchetti Martino
Scholarship for International Studies
Anna and Charles Stockwitz Fund - Jewish
Charles and Louise Rosenbaum Scholarship Loan Fund - Jewish
B'nai Brith Women of Greater Hartford Scholarship
Massachusetts Federation of Polish Women's Clubs Scholarships
Jewish Social Service Agency of Metropolitan Washington
Levie Educational Fund Scholarship - Jewish
American Council for Polish Culture Scholarship Challenge Grant
George L. Graziado Fellowship for Business - Italian
Marcus and Theresa Levie Educational Fund - Jewish
The Roothbert Fund - Jewish
Polish American Club Scholarship
Jewish Foundation for Education of Women Scholarship
Jewish War Veterans of the USA - Scholarship
National Italian American Foundation George L. Graziado Fellowship for Business
National Italian American Foundation Merrill Lynch Scholarship
Jewish Welfare Board Scholarship
Amelia Greenbaum Scholarship Fund - Jewish
National Italian American Foundation National Italian American Foundation
National Italian American Foundation Alexander Defilippis Scholarship
Encouragement Scholarship -Jewish
Vincent Viceglia Fellowship- Italian
Free Sons of Israel - Jewish Scholarship
Polish American Arts Association Scholarship
Frank L. Weil Memorial Scholarship - Jewish
Adele Kagen Scholarship Fund - Jewish
National Italian American Foundation Bolla Wines Scholarship
Rhode Island Polonia Scholarship

Scholarships that Target White Ethnicities -- Diversity is also White

 

[Kathryn]

Legally, yes. Agreed. No one on this thread has argued this should be illegal.

The question is should private entities use skin color as an eligibility criterion?

Once again, if one bothers to read the link you posted (instead of just reading the title), one finds that the cause of whites being 10% over-represented in college scholarships is not due to racial criteria. The over-representation of whites is a symptom, and the cause has to do with socioeconomic factors (presumably income level, where you went to high school, are you from a single-parent home, etc.).

The (flawed, i.m.o.) politically correct answer is to fix the symptom by giving scholarships to racial minorities. The proper answer (i.m.o.) is to treat the cause, by giving scholarships based on need. It seems to me the politically correct response dovetails nicely with the real goals of private universities: enlarge their endowments by accepting the rich, advantaged kids, but give the appearance of social charity and diversity by accepting racial minorities.

I read the article.