Who are you to question God? really...

[Lady B]

Your interpretation of scripture and God is anathema to my way of life. Why should I respect you if you don't respect me and mine? Because you have a lot of people and years under your belt and I don't?

you trying to say I am old?

How exactly am I not respecting you exactly? By stating that your willingful denying God,and consider yourself just to call my God an evil monster? ok so be it.I think I have that right as you have the right to believe as you do, you believe I am willingly believing a lie created by men, I believe your willingly denying what He has written on your heart from creation.
Romans 1:18-32

King James Version (KJV)

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

I don't believe in the Easter bunny or tooth fairy, do I debate those that do? nah I could care less, so why my friend do you care so much about My God if he is just not important or worthy of discussion? I think you do care and I only ask you to refrain from blatant disrespect towards anothers God.

 

[Falvlun]

I don't believe in the Easter bunny or tooth fairy, do I debate those that do? nah I could care less, so why my friend do you care so much about My God if he is just not important or worthy of discussion? I think you do care and I only ask you to refrain from blatant disrespect towards anothers God.

Precisely because people, like yourself, do believe that he exists. Believe me, if people seriously believed that the Easter Bunny existed, condemned those who didn't believe in the Bunny, claimed that the Bunny doesn't like people with red hair and therefore, all red heads should be forced to dye their hair, etc, I'm sure you'd be interested in debating them too.

The fact is, belief in God exists and it does create actual results in this world, regardless of whether God exists or not.

 

[no-body]

Ok fair enough, That at least is a respectful argument and I thank you But no I was not using a classical Christian argument or asking you to worship the Christian God, was I?

Then what argument are you making? While you might not ask for me to worship your God you have already made a judgement including me in your belief. I would find it hard to believe if you do not from your previous posts.

Editing this to include your new post: while I respect the bible as a piece of literature I do not believe for a second it is the literal word of God. If it was it would have come to all peoples simultaneously and easily. Why should I take it into account just because you have?

 

[McBell]

Really? I resorted to name calling a God? or somone that you love and give honor too? Is that what you get from my thread?

If you remove the preaching, post #21 sums up your part in this thread fairly well.

 

[McBell]

I don't believe in the Easter bunny or tooth fairy, do I debate those that do? nah I could care less, so why my friend do you care so much about My God if he is just not important or worthy of discussion? I think you do care and I only ask you to refrain from blatant disrespect towards anothers God.

When was the last time groups of people tried to pass laws based on what they claim the Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy says, wants and or demands?

When was the last time someone started a thread demanding that everyone respect the Tooth Fairy or Easter Bunny simply because the thread starter believes the Tooth fairy to be some all knowing all powerful all loving, etc. super being?

When was the last time someone posted that everyone who claims to disbelieve the tooth fairy is a coward?



Try taking your OP and replacing all references to god with the Tooth Fairy.
If you can do that, then perhaps you can understand better the can of worms you opened.

 

[Me Myself]

No, I do not understand it at all, I will never try to understand your analogy either, to me putting a God with evil men is rediculous at best.

To you. Notice how this does not affect others.

If the god in question has qualities that make him morally inferior to avarage joe on morality, most people will simply question it, because they expect a God to at least by higher in morals than the average.

You say "puting a god with evil men", but why is this ridiculous? the persons who do so do see this god to be evil as those men or even way more evil than them. Should they be quiet for your sake? Not denouncing what they see as evil?

Even if someone is wrong, may we never stop denouncing what we think is evil. Few things are as dangerous as those kind of omissions.

 

[Lady B]

A lot of that is just over-the-top bravado and shock-and-awe.

But they do have a serious criticism at root. Would you find a reasoned, civilized discussion about the alleged short-comings of God to be disrespectful?

For example, I have recently posted here that I find the concept of original sin to be a rather unfair and irrational plan. I have various reasons for believing so. Such a plan, of course, reflects upon the planner. Do you consider that disrespectful?


It is a bit of a slog, I'll give you that. You got swamped.

I think the issue is that what you consider "distasteful remarks" is not really well defined. Is it simply calling God names? Or, as above, making arguments that criticize God? Is it saying that I personally find certain of your beliefs abhorrent? Is it me simply saying that I don't believe that God exists?

And one last point: I agree that we should be respectful of each other. And I agree that to some extent we shoud be respectful of each other's beliefs. But I do not believe that beliefs should be immune from criticism in the name of respect.

Yes I am working my way back to your post, and yes I am certainly willing to discuss your criticism respectfully as I have done or tried to do since coming to this forum,I have been interested in many threads asking genuine questions or using critical thinking, I am not at all offended, But many times when I go to respond, someone has used such disrespectful tactics and name calling, horrible remarks that just knock me down and I Cannot believe what I see is even really in someone's heart.I have seen really good threads being just overtaken by these awful remarks, I have no desire to respond and I know there are others like me that just won't speak out.I am a firm believer of the first amendment and certainly can't do anything other than ask you all to play nice, be fair and show some respect, even If you truly believe as You claim, for debate sakes use better words, show some humility to a possibility even that These God's do indeed exist. Isn't that fair? If you feel that the God depicted in my scripture seems to do evil, well as much as that pains me, I can certainly except you will have support for that and let's discuss it if you like? As for original sin being evil, I see your side I really do, I have been in this debate before and the atheists I was debating had this premise and was respectful, Thankyou for that. as far as hell goes, I get you on that too,I understand you have a problem with My God sending anyone to hell, OK we have discussed it many times over in this forum, rather respectfully in fact (MeMyself) I haven't found way to help you or him in this because I think you have to have a Fear and trust in God before you can come to an understanding, that fear and trust can only come from God himself, not me, not the many lovely Godly individuals who have tried their hardest to help you, sometimes we must accept some stumbling blocks must be taken down by God himself. You don't believe in him, so I must assume that you never tried to ask him yourself right?

About God letting children die, he must be evil to do so, OK we can discuss this if you like, This latest tragedy is on all our hearts and minds, it seems so cruel, so unjust, I understand you, but let me If I may say something to you atheists, who was at the memorial? Did you happen to see that the spirit of that service on live TV was Godly? Did you see even the president whom religion most of us question, even he gave homage to a sovereign God.Muslims came and gave a beautiful message, did you see any atheist stand up there and tell those mothers "hey sorry, your kids are gone, It is the end, they are not with God, there is no God, you will not see them again one day, they are worm food, sorry..".Well Why not? Because noone would believe you, All know there is a God and for whatever purpose he decided to take those babies, we find comfort in him even now. Those families find comfort in God, our nation our world still finds comfort in knowing God is in control even now...I Am sorry If this hurts you, I am sorry If you also have suffered tragedy and blamed God and feel let down by him, or because he does these things he could not possibly exist, I wish God would give us signs, I wish I could prove him to you, I can't apart from the only tools he gave us,I am sorry you cannot accept that for your own reasons.

 

[Lady B]

When was the last time groups of people tried to pass laws based on what they claim the Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy says, wants and or demands?

When was the last time someone started a thread demanding that everyone respect the Tooth Fairy or Easter Bunny simply because the thread starter believes the Tooth fairy to be some all knowing all powerful all loving, etc. super being?

When was the last time someone posted that everyone who claims to disbelieve the tooth fairy is a coward?

That would only work If I was using My God alone or my religion alone, as far as passing laws, please! Is that what my thread was about? Is that why God is constantly being seriously insulted? you taking my thread to politics now?

Try taking your OP and replacing all references to god with the Tooth Fairy.
If you can do that, then perhaps you can understand better the can of worms you opened.

That would only work If I was using My God alone or my religion alone, as far as passing laws, please! Is that what my thread was about? Is that why God is constantly being seriously insulted? you taking my thread to politics now?

 

[McBell]

That would only work If I was using My God alone or my religion alone, as far as passing laws, please! Is that what my thread was about? Is that why God is constantly being seriously insulted? you taking my thread to politics now?

Since I do not know if you are honestly not understanding or purposely avoiding the points, i will stop and just accept that you have no intention of doing anything other than defend your self serving sermons.

have a nice day.

 

[Lady B]

Since I do not know if you are honestly not understanding or purposely avoiding the points, i will stop and just accept that you have no intention of doing anything other than defend your self serving sermons.

have a nice day.

What topic would you like me to discuss? How my religion is hindering gay marriage?

 

[Lady B]

When was the last time groups of people tried to pass laws based on what they claim the Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy says, wants and or demands?

When was the last time someone started a thread demanding that everyone respect the Tooth Fairy or Easter Bunny simply because the thread starter believes the Tooth fairy to be some all knowing all powerful all loving, etc. super being?

When was the last time someone posted that everyone who claims to disbelieve the tooth fairy is a coward?


Try taking your OP and replacing all references to god with the Tooth Fairy.
If you can do that, then perhaps you can understand better the can of worms you opened.

Yes I get you, I opened up a can of worms, I demanded something from you and I called you a coward hmmmmm so where do you want to go from here?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

What topic would you like me to discuss? How my religion is hindering gay marriage?

Did you understand the point Mestemia was making? You said this:

I don't believe in the Easter bunny or tooth fairy, do I debate those that do? nah I could care less, so why my friend do you care so much about My God if he is just not important or worthy of discussion?

Mestemia pointed out that this thread and many extremely important debates that are going on right now are dependent on the belief in the existence of some sort of God, so comparing debating the existence of God to debating the existence of the easter bunny or tooth fairy is an absurd comparison. Do you expect anyone to start a thread about the easter bunny claiming that all those people who say they don't believe in the easter bunny are just in denial or willfully ignorant? If you could imagine such a thing, you might actually understand why people are so angry with you for saying such things about belief in God.

 

[Falvlun]

That would only work If I was using My God alone or my religion alone, as far as passing laws, please! Is that what my thread was about? Is that why God is constantly being seriously insulted? you taking my thread to politics now?

You asked why we care about people believing in something we don't believe exists. The reason is because your beliefs have an impact upon the real world regardless of whether the thing you believe in exists or not. This is why your comparison to the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy is not really analogous. Does that make sense?

 

[McBell]

What topic would you like me to discuss? How my religion is hindering gay marriage?

Yes I get you, I opened up a can of worms, I demanded something from you and I called you a coward hmmmmm so where do you want to go from here?

Like a poor marksman, you keep missing the point.

But I understand it is how you protect your fragile faith.
The OP was not really for anyone other than yourself.

 

[apophenia]

That would only work If I was using My God alone or my religion alone, as far as passing laws, please! Is that what my thread was about? Is that why God is constantly being seriously insulted? you taking my thread to politics now?

Mestemia makes a very relevant point.Believers in god most certainly do pass laws based on their scriptural beliefs. In America, which is not a theocracy, there are examples too numerous to mention of christians inflicting, and trying to inflict, the population with laws based on their religious beliefs.

You seem oblivious to how offensive and oppressive that is to those who either don't believe in god, or who appreciate the value of separation of church and state.

Your thread begs the question - Who are you to question the integrity of those who do not believe in god ? Who are you to call them out as disrespectful or cowardly or somehow inferior ? Who are you to claim that god, if there is a god, would be offended by his own creation ?

And if this alleged god takes offense at anything in his/her/its creation, surely that is god's problem. If I create music or write a story and it offends me, can I blame the music or the story ? That would be ridiculous and psychotic.

 

[Lady B]

Did you understand the point Mestemia was making? You said this:

I don't believe in the Easter bunny or tooth fairy, do I debate those that do? nah I could care less, so why my friend do you care so much about My God if he is just not important or worthy of discussion?

Mestemia pointed out that this thread and many extremely important debates that are going on right now are dependent on the belief in the existence of some sort of God, so comparing debating the existence of God to debating the existence of the easter bunny or tooth fairy is an absurd comparison. Do you expect anyone to start a thread about the easter bunny claiming that all those people who say they don't believe in the easter bunny are just in denial or willfully ignorant? If you could imagine such a thing, you might actually understand why people are so angry with you for saying such things about belief in God.

Ok granted, Thankyou for clearing that up, I apoligise for the easter bunny remark, my real point in using it is that why do they care so much if they could care less, anyways I shouldn't have used it, my mistake...

 

[Lady B]

Like a poor marksman, you keep missing the point.

But I understand it is how you protect your fragile faith.
The OP was not really for anyone other than yourself.

No It really was not for myself, It was for all of us who try to discuss important issues about our faith or other faiths and become defeated by disrespect.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Ok granted, Thankyou for clearing that up, I apoligise for the easter bunny remark, my real point in using it is that why do they care so much if they could care less

Well, because people actually believe it. And that belief has real world consequences. There are still countries on earth where homosexuality is criminalized because of what the dominant religious belief says God thinks about it. There are places in the world where so much as drawing a picture of a particular religious prophet is likely to get you incarcerated. Even in the US, the dominant forces opposing birth control, gay marriage and the teaching of evolution come from organizations which have at their heart the belief that God specifically opposes those things.

It's a belief that not only informs such actions, but also personal opinions towards each other. I've lost friends in the past because they became Christians and refused to hang out with me when I didn't convert. I've spoken to people I've known and loved for many years and have them condemn me to hell for being an atheist. I've seen gay friends disowned by their religious families. And here, on this forum, I've had you tell me and all the other atheists on this forum that, actually, "we do know God exists", and we're just "willfully ignorant" to it.

These beliefs matter, so it's more important than any other belief to question and inquire and try to ascertain the truth of.

 

[Lady B]

Mestemia makes a very relevant point.Believers in god most certainly do pass laws based on their scriptural beliefs. In America, which is not a theocracy, there are examples too numerous to mention of christians inflicting, and trying to inflict, the population with laws based on their religious beliefs.

You seem oblivious to how offensive and oppressive that is to those who either don't believe in god, or who appreciate the value of separation of church and state.

Your thread begs the question - Who are you to question the integrity of those who do not believe in god ? Who are you to call them out as disrespectful or cowardly or somehow inferior ? Who are you to claim that god, if there is a god, would be offended by his own creation ?

And if this alleged god takes offense at anything in his/her/its creation, surely that is god's problem. If I create music or write a story and it offends me, can I blame the music or the story ? That would be ridiculous and psychotic.

Ok, But are politics the reason to call God a lil punk? Because some religious people vote by their morals dictated by their beliefs then our God must pay the price? I know there are deepset issues against Christians or religious zealots, But that can't be why people hate a God, could it?

 

[McBell]

Ok, But are politics the reason to call God a lil punk? Because some religious people vote by their morals dictated by their beliefs then our God must pay the price? I know there are deepset issues against Christians or religious zealots, But that can't be why people hate a God, could it?

A quick show of hands, who in this thread "hates" god?