Who Can Prove God's Existence?

[NGerty]

Evolution is fact.

The only reason I said it isn't a fact is because many people believe it is not verified by the evidence we have backing it.

 

[Storm]

The only reason I said it isn't a fact is because many people believe it is not verified by the evidence we have backing it.

That's a fallacy, though.

 

[Riverwolf]

Evolution makes much more sense in terms of explaining how such complicated life came to exist.

Wrong. Evolution tells us how we got from point A to point B. The question of how it all got started remains unanswered.

 

[Riverwolf]

The only reason I said it isn't a fact is because many people believe it is not verified by the evidence we have backing it.

Only because they have a very flawed understanding of it.

Those who actually take the time to learn about what the theory of evolution states know that it is by far the most likely scenario.

 

[NGerty]

Big Bang.

We know nothing of the sort. There is no proof either way.

Same Chance? One who denies God and tries to convince believers to give up their faith as they say it is false has the exact same chance of salvation as one who accepts that God is real and does their beast to please God?

I disagree with many here of differing faiths but I expect that if they are led to believe in a way differing from mine, yet still accept God, God will be forgiving to them as he will be to me. God made a promise to me and other Christians in his son Jesus. I believe that promise. What other covenants God has made I will not pretend to agree with but if they follow their scriptures I am sure they will also receive some sort of mercy.

The people who completely deny God yet do not attempt to mislead followers will also be judged accordingly.

Those who attempt to destroy all faith and not only deny God but also tamper with his flock shall most likely not see the mercies afforded others.

First of all, scientists have shown and proven the Big Bang was what created the universe. When you say there is "no proof either way" you are mistaken. There is proof, and the Big Bang is a fact.

So you don't really know if there is a god, but you have faith? Why? Just in case there is a god and you aren't punished when you die? What if it isn't the Christian God that is true? Shouldn't you then worship all gods for good measure?

You may have strong faith, but why do you have faith?

 

[Caladan]

Look around you at everyone and everything, including yourself. There's god. Do I get a prize now?


...or were you specifically referring to the Abrahamic god? That's a common mistake around here.

What makes you think that the God you are talking about did not originate in Abrahamic monotheism? how often do the children try to kill the parents...

 

[Archer]

Big Bang.

We know nothing of the sort. There is no proof either way.

Same Chance? One who denies God and tries to convince believers to give up their faith as they say it is false has the exact same chance of salvation as one who accepts that God is real and does their beast to please God?

I disagree with many here of differing faiths but I expect that if they are led to believe in a way differing from mine, yet still accept God, God will be forgiving to them as he will be to me. God made a promise to me and other Christians in his son Jesus. I believe that promise. What other covenants God has made I will not pretend to agree with but if they follow their scriptures I am sure they will also receive some sort of mercy.

The people who completely deny God yet do not attempt to mislead followers will also be judged accordingly.

Those who attempt to destroy all faith and not only deny God but also tamper with his flock shall most likely not see the mercies afforded others.

First of all, scientists have shown and proven the Big Bang was what created the universe. When you say there is "no proof either way" you are mistaken. There is proof, and the Big Bang is a fact.

So you don't really know if there is a god, but you have faith? Why? Just in case there is a god and you aren't punished when you die? What if it isn't the Christian God that is true? Shouldn't you then worship all gods for good measure?

You may have strong faith, but what is the point in believing if you won't ever know if God exists for sure?

Now that most of it is put together, let me explain. NO PERSON KNOWS THAT IT WAS NOT GOD THAT CAUSED THE BIG BANG. Do I need to say it slower so you can understand? I say it was God the began everything. You say it just happened. I have a historical foundation for my claims, many witnesses throughout history. You have the last few hundred years of finding out what God and how he may have done it.

 

[Erebus]

What makes you think that the God you are talking about did not originate in Abrahamic monotheism? how often do the children try to kill the parents...

That would really depend on the form of pantheism we're talking about. Certainly many elements of pantheism (especially "classical" pantheism) have strong links to enlightenment era ways of thinking (and so they are strongly linked with Christianity) however, it could be argued that pantheism could easily have stemmed from Eastern panentheism or Shamanic/Shinto animism or perhaps even from space exploration. We may never know...

The point of my post however was simply to remind NGerty that there are multiple concepts of "God". Where those concepts may have originated doesn't particularly matter.

 

[NGerty]

NO PERSON KNOWS THAT IT WAS NOT GOD THAT CAUSED THE BIG BANG.

Exactly, nobody can say God didn't create the universe, so why bother consider the possibility when looking for reasons as to why and how the universe was created?

I understand there are many different versions of "God," but they all seem to explain something that might be explainable through scientific discovery.

If we can't find any answers then maybe we could say it must have been a divine power, but we are looking for those answers and have so far been successful in making headway.

 

[Archer]

Dark Matter, Dark Energy, String theory, 11 dimensions, the theories of Hawking all of it points to design.

 

[NGerty]

Sure, there is some kind of design and baffling complexity, but not necessarily "intelligent" design; not necessarily design by a designer.

 

[Erebus]

I understand there are many different versions of "God," but they all seem to explain something that might be explainable through scientific discovery.

If we can't find any answers then maybe we could say it must have been a divine power, but we are looking for those answers and have so far been successful in making headway.

True, a lot of historical deities have been used to explain natural phenomena, while modern deities (or modern ideas about old deities) are often used to explain philosophical questions (the big one being, why are we here?). Now scientific approaches can teach us a lot about our world and can explain who we are as organisms, however it can't teach us who we are as individuals, nor can it tell us if we have a purpose. To answer these questions, self exploration is required and one way to do this is through religious practices.
I'm aware that I've just explained why a belief in gods can be useful, without actually offering any evidence for their existence. Personally I would advise you to search for gods on your own. If one god doesn't appeal to you, have a look at some of the others. Do some research and take part in some rituals. You may experience a deity for yourself or you may not.
I believe that humans are not equipped to understand reality fully and that our best bet is to find our own way through life and create our own beliefs based on what we experience and what makes sense to us. Simply put, if no deity whatsoever "works" for you, I doubt that deities will ever play a part in your reality. Having said that, there's no harm in looking

 

[Erebus]

Sure, there is some kind of design and baffling complexity, but not necessarily "intelligent" design; not necessarily design by a designer.

Does a deity/creator need to be conscious? Personally I consider the big bang to be the creator and unconscious designer of our world.

 

[Archer]

Sure, there is some kind of design and baffling complexity, but not necessarily "intelligent" design; not necessarily design by a designer.

Why not intelligent? If nothing can mover faster than light do things move faster than light? Crap there is no way to explain why parts of the universe are at least 4 billion years older than we can account for? Hey I know expansion, lets get a theory together.

Oh hell, parts of the universe are expanding and appear to be accelerating, Hey dark matter, never admit we have not got a clue.

Holy cow that cluster at the fringe of our universe is putting off way too much radiation, Hey we can call it dark energy.

I chose God as science sometimes grasps for straws.

 

[NGerty]

Does a deity/creator need to be conscious? Personally I consider the big bang to be the creator and unconscious designer of our world.

You are personifying the Big Bang though. Do you mean that the "creator" exploded and that the universe is made up of what once constituted that "creator"?

And yes, a deity and creator needs to be conscious. Those words imply that the being is a conscious entity, like a human.

God is a creator; a being.
The Big Bang is a cause; an event.

 

[NGerty]

Why not intelligent? .

Sure, why not intelligent. That stands as long as there is no reason to believe it is not intelligent design. But the better question now is why intelligent?

There isn't any reason not to believe in an intelligent creator, but that fact doesn't justify believing in one when there is no supporting evidence or indication.

 

[Archer]

Sure, why not intelligent. That stands as long as there is no reason to believe it is not intelligent design. But the better question now is why intelligent?

There isn't any reason not to believe in an intelligent creator, but that fact doesn't justify believing in one when there is no supporting evidence or indication.

We have our books of faith! Science has nothing.

 

[NGerty]

You have the Bible, and science has nothing? I beg to differ.

If you would lift your nose from your books of faith for a moment, for a moment and disregard them, you would see science has so much and the potential to have everything.

 

[Erebus]

1.You are personifying the Big Bang though. Do you mean that the "creator" exploded and that the universe is made up of what once constituted that "creator"?

2.And yes, a deity and creator needs to be conscious. Those words imply that the being is a conscious entity, like a human.

God is a creator; a being.
The Big Bang is a cause; an event.

1. The Egyptians personified the sun, desert and wind. The Babylonians personified the desert winds. Many Neopagans personify the Earth. Gods are often personifications of natural phenomena. And yes I do mean that our "creator" exploded and that we are made up of that creator. You probably believe the same thing too...

2. Not at all, a deity can take a variety of forms, not all of which are conscious and certainly not all "like a human".

 

[Archer]

Sure, why not intelligent. That stands as long as there is no reason to believe it is not intelligent design. But the better question now is why intelligent?

There isn't any reason not to believe in an intelligent creator, but that fact doesn't justify believing in one when there is no supporting evidence or indication.

Your words I believe. I have many historical documents going back thousands of years. The Catholics have more and they don't take sainthood lightly there must be "Confirmed Miracles".