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Who Can Prove God's Existence?

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Though I do not follow the Catholic teachings:

The road to sainthood begins at the grass-roots. Ordinary Christians, perhaps in a parish or a religious community, recognize that someone of extraordinary holiness has lived among them. The memory of that person inspires them. The story of his or her life is told, perhaps in a book. People pray to the person, asking intercession for some favor, and their prayers may be answered. Extraordinary signs, perhaps a cure from sickness, occur. A local group may be formed which seeks to make this person's life and gifts more widely known.
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After a long period of time, sometimes many years, the bishop of the diocese where that person lived may be asked to begin the local process for declaring a saint. If he sees merit in the request, he sets up a board of experts to investigate the person's life, soundness of faith and reputation for holiness. Those who knew the person are interviewed. If miracles are attributed to that person's intercession, they must verified by medical experts. Finally the bishop must ascertain from the other bishops of the region if this person is known and venerated more widely than in one local area.
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Then, if there is reason to proceed further, the bishop may petition Rome to begin the process of beatification.
Beatification
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Beatification is the next step toward sainthood. It begins when the local bishop provides the materials he has accumulated to the Vatican's Congregation for the Causes of Saints. Using the materials, officials of the congregation create an historical-critical account of the candidate's life and spirituality. One important criteria sought at this stage is the historical importance of the candidate: Did he or she meet a particular challenge of their time and place? Did the candidate offer a new example of holiness to the world in which he lived? Or was he truly a martyr, one who died for faith in Jesus Christ?
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If the candidate was martyred, a miracle need not be sought. If the candidate did not die as a martyr, then one miracle after death must be proven, through the scrutiny of a body of medical experts. Once they find it acceptable, and the candidate's life is judged truly heroic by a group of theological experts and cardinals, then the pope can declare that beatification may proceed. After the beatifcation takes place, the candidate can be called blessed and veneration may be offered by the local church. The pope can then go further and canonize the blessed.
Canonization
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Canonization is the final step that declares someone a saint. It means that the candidate, already called blessed, is entered into the worldwide list of saints recognized by the Roman Catholic Church. First, however, in the case of a candidate who is not a martyr, the church looks for another authentic miracle attributed to the candidate's intercession, as a sign from God of the candidate's heroic holiness. Then, if the candidate's reputation for holiness continues to grow worldwide, the pope may decide to canonize.
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The church does not claim that its own list of saints is exhaustive.
In fact, its celebration of the Feast of All Saints on November 1st points to a "huge crowd which no one could count from every nation, race, people, and tongue." (Revelations 7) The church's list of canonized saints is only meant to witness to God's grace at work through every time and place, from the first centuries until now.
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If there is any trend
in the process of canonization it is the search for more "lay" saints: mothers and fathers, men and women who were active in the world of family, business and politics and showed themselves to be holy in a secular world. The church is looking for original saints, who responded to the unique needs of their times, and so can open the way of holiness to others.
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Above all, the saints are examples of how to follow Jesus Christ
in every circumstance. "In the lives of those who shared in our humanity and yet were transformed into especially successful images of Christ, God vividly manifests to men his presence and his face. He speaks to us in them, and gives us a sign of his Kingdom, to which we are powerfully drawn, surrounded as we are by so many witnesses ( cf. Hebrews 12,1), and having such an argument for the truth of the gospel." (Lumen Gentium 50, Vatican II)

You need to explain to me further the process of figuring out a miracle. So far, that's the only part of this whole process that seems even remotely credible, as the rest of it seems to be decided on whether or not said person is liked and followed, which, in my opinion, is not good enough.

Also, I requested some examples of historical proofs. You have not provided any thus far. I still await them.
 

Archer

Well-Known Member
You need to explain to me further the process of figuring out a miracle. So far, that's the only part of this whole process that seems even remotely credible, as the rest of it seems to be decided on whether or not said person is liked and followed, which, in my opinion, is not good enough.

Also, I requested some examples of historical proofs. You have not provided any thus far. I still await them.

Here is where we differ, I accept the Bible as proof. You do not. I refuse to change my views unless shown tangible evidence to the contrary that I find acceptable.

As to the Catholic thing that could take some time.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Here is where we differ, I accept the Bible as proof. You do not. I refuse to change my views unless shown tangible evidence to the contrary that I find acceptable.

Fair enough. But what would be the criteria for such evidence?

As to the Catholic thing that could take some time.

That's okay. My studies are ongoing.
 

Archer

Well-Known Member
Fair enough. But what would be the criteria for such evidence?

Honestly I would have to find it, I am not one to jump on these bandwagons. I accept the Bible as fact from a philosophical point of view, truths need not be factual, but facts need be true. I believe a little differently than most Christians I know (dont get me started on what I dont like about almost every Christian church I have been to.

To change my opinion science would need prove human evolution from Chimp to man with about 1000 skeletons lined up all diffrent butside by side # 1 & 2 are identical without mch examination and you can only start to notice a difference after 10.


That's okay. My studies are ongoing.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
To change my opinion science would need prove human evolution from Chimp to man with about 1000 skeletons lined up all diffrent butside by side # 1 & 2 are identical without mch examination and you can only start to notice a difference after 10.

Um... no scientist has ever claimed that humans came from chimps.
 
Kent Hovind is an American Young Earth creationist and conspiracy theorist famous for his creation science seminars that aim to convince listeners to reject modern theories of evolution, geophysics, and cosmology in favour of the creation myth found in the Bible, creation according to Genesis.
 
One does not need to see god to believe in god. Yet one needs to see his signs and evidence in order to accept him as their god.Belief in the unseen.I will give you material example, lets say you saw me place an apple inside a fridge. Once i close the fridge you can't see the apple anymore yet you still believe or know that it is in there, because you saw me put it in you saw the evidence or sign. In the same way gods existance can be proven.
And i ahve a question for Ngerty the one who started this topic, which god is he talking about? the chrisitan's god, the muslim's god , or any other god, they obviously dont all exist.
 

idea

Question Everything
Who Can Prove God's Existence?

Can you prove your love for anyone? Can you prove the desires of your heart are pure? Can you prove you have never had a spiritual experience?

God can be personally felt, heard, experienced. Has been felt/heard/experienced by billions of people. Just as billions of people have learned how to love, learned how to hate, learned what life is really about.

It is a personal experience between you and God... another cannot make you love... another cannot make you believe in God.
 
really?
What makes it so obvious?

If you believe in one divine god and believe that he sustains the universe and has full control over his creatures yet you are saying that there is a posibility of having more than one god, if it were this way the 2 or 3 or 4 or even more gods would obviously not be the same and there will be some sort of disagreement , this would create an imbalance in the creation of this universe meaning it will not be perfect as it is now. You don't see two leaders for every country there is only one leader of a government.
This is what makes it obvious
 

McBell

Unbound
If you believe in one divine god and believe that he sustains the universe and has full control over his creatures yet you are saying that there is a posibility of having more than one god, if it were this way the 2 or 3 or 4 or even more gods would obviously not be the same and there will be some sort of disagreement , this would create an imbalance in the creation of this universe meaning it will not be perfect as it is now. You don't see two leaders for every country there is only one leader of a government.
This is what makes it obvious

You MIGHT have a point IF the universe was perfect.
But since the universe is not perfect...
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
If you believe in one divine god and believe that he sustains the universe and has full control over his creatures yet you are saying that there is a posibility of having more than one god, if it were this way the 2 or 3 or 4 or even more gods would obviously not be the same and there will be some sort of disagreement , this would create an imbalance in the creation of this universe meaning it will not be perfect as it is now. You don't see two leaders for every country there is only one leader of a government.
This is what makes it obvious

Not so. Here in America, even though the President is the executive, he is not all-powerful; Congress can do things the President cannot do, and the Supreme Court can do things those other two cannot, as well. Each checks and balances the other, in theory, so that there can be harmony. It doesn't always work, but they are only human.

When considering the gods, we must remember that these are beings far more disciplined and evolved than we are: I would have no trouble believing that two or more gods can work together in perfect harmony together. Only if they had our human faults would it not work: the gods do not, for they are enlightened beings.
 

Freelancer7

Active Member
how would you expect G*d to do that, perhaps G*d is a fourth Entity after the Trinity, the fourth who definately is not on earth as an entity, at the moment that is, but could possibly be 200 trillion years more advanced than a human on earth?!
 

Freelancer7

Active Member
when he turns up, an that aint gunna be while all the **** is happening, perhaps when a little loving is shown all around??
 

McBell

Unbound
how would you expect G*d to do that, perhaps G*d is a fourth Entity after the Trinity, the fourth who definately is not on earth as an entity, at the moment that is, but could possibly be 200 trillion years more advanced than a human on earth?!
One would think that an all powerful god wlould be able to do so.
One would think that an all knowing god would know it.

Or are you saying that god is either not all powerful, not all knowing, or both?
 
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