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Who created God?

J

jamesmorrow

Active Member
Man of Faith said:
And that is what makes my argument for not having to show how God began so strong. If science can't show that God had a beginning, like it shows that the universe had a beginning then there is no need to explain that beginning. I can just state that God is a necessary being.
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hahahaha, if science can not show that an inexistent imaginary being had a beginning, then that inexistent imaginary being must have always existed :facepalm:
 
J

jamesmorrow

Active Member
Man of Faith said:
Here is how we can show that God must be eternal and non-caused, because there can’t be an infinite number of anything in the real world, only in abstract. If God was created then who or what created the thing that created God, and who created the thing that created the thing that created God, and on and on for infinity. Hilbert’s paradox of the Grand Hotel demonstrates the impossibility of an infinite number of things. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilbert's_paradox_of_the_Grand_Hotel

Now that we have demonstrated that it is impossible for there to be an infinite number of things in the reality, we can determine that there can’t be an infinite number of things or beings that were created. Therefore I am logically justified by mathematics in stating that if God exists then he could be eternal and did not have a beginning.
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see my response to maj123
 
J

jamesmorrow

Active Member
Man of Faith said:
A necessary being is a being that exists by their own nature, such as numbers. Was there a time before the universe began where numbers didn't exist? I don't think so, because numbers are abstract objects. God can be described as necessary because he isn't contingent on anything, he hasn't been shown by science to have a beginning, so it is logical that he might not have a beginning so we don't have to describe how he began.
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yes, there was a time when numbers didnt exist. that time was before the human mind existed. come to think of it, there was also a time when gods didnt exist... and yes, youve guessed it, that time was before the human mind existed.
 
J

jamesmorrow

Active Member
PolyHedral said:
To answer the question, you require numbers, which have already been established not to exist.
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what are you talking about. the concept of numbers exists as a result of the human mind. so if you require numbers to clarify whatever it is you need to clarify, you have them.
 
M

marjan27

New Member
Well, this is the deepest of all thoughts and questions, and that's precisely why it can't be answered.
God as a perfect being has no sense for beginning or ending! Those senses He gave to people to appreciate their time on Earth, to fight their dilemmas, to recognize the happiness by overcomming hardships, etc., etc...
All the humans have to know God said: "I am who I am". Similarly, Jesus said to Peter on his blessed way to Damascus: nothing concrete did God say -- meaning: "I, your God, am beyond your comprehension."
Those are my feelings and thoughts about this issue.
Bye,
marjan
 
muhammad_isa

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
James,
If everbody died except one person, that person would still be able to count the finite objects around them .. yes?

If that last person died, do you expect me to think that there would no longer be a finite number of objects, or are you saying it's irrelevant or the concept vanishes in 'a puff of smoke' or what??
 
J

jamesmorrow

Active Member
muhammad_isa said:
James,
If everbody died except one person, that person would still be able to count the finite objects around them .. yes?

If that last person died, do you expect me to think that there would no longer be a finite number of objects, or are you saying it's irrelevant or the concept vanishes in 'a puff of smoke' or what??
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the objects would still exist, as they existed before humans existed. but the concept of numerology would vanish with the human mind. so i dont understand your point. elaborate.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
jamesmorrow said:
what are you talking about. the concept of numbers exists as a result of the human mind. so if you require numbers to clarify whatever it is you need to clarify, you have them.
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i think what poly is saying is that numbers, or the concept of numbers, is what i highlighted.

numbers did not exist as a concept at one point in our evolution.
 
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