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Who Do Christians Follow Paul or Jesus(pbuh)???

Faithfreedom

i gotta change my avatar
Christians follow Jesus Christ (that's why they are called Christians) not Paul nor Jesus(pbuh) of the Quran. Christians follow the way of love. We know our master's voice.

Even if you win in this debate or any other, not many will convert to Islam because Islam doesn't work right. There is too much blood on your prophet's hands. On the other hand, because knowledge is spreading fast by internet, more and more eyes are opened and are converting out of Islam. My condolences to those left behind. What a loss!
 

Faithfreedom

i gotta change my avatar
Jesus is our Lord and Savior, not Paul.

I don't understand why this is even a question.
i think he is trying to prove to us from the bible that Christians do not follow Jesus but are really following Paul.

And if we are really following the bible, we will all obey Jesus and convert to Islam.
 

A Thousand Suns

Rationalist
Christians follow Jesus Christ (that's why they are called Christians) not Paul nor Jesus(pbuh) of the Quran. Christians follow the way of love. We know our master's voice.

Even if you win in this debate or any other, not many will convert to Islam because Islam doesn't work right. There is too much blood on your prophet's hands. On the other hand, because knowledge is spreading fast by internet, more and more eyes are opened and are converting out of Islam. My condolences to those left behind. What a loss!

Well Christians say the follow/love Jesus , when they clearly don't follow his teachings , that means your love is fake----On the other hand we Muslims not only love Jeus(pbuh) but also follow his teachings :yes:

Few Examples
1)We don't drink Alcohol just like bible says
2)We don't have poke just like bible says
3)We believe in One GOD and the same God to who Jesus worshiped

You can call him only Jesus while we always say (Peach Be Upon Him) after his name---so we certainly respect him more than a Christian does
 

A Thousand Suns

Rationalist
Yeah too right, mate. Little do they know what islam truly is. Almost all muslims don't follow the Quran and hadiths, thank God! They call themselves moderates. I love these. Osama - now there's a true muslim who truly follow Mohammad.

Now Christians who truly follow the bible have nothing but love for all - including their enemies. The Christians who went on the Crusades - now those are Christians who are misled and are not following what the bible says. All those who follow the way of love are really doing whether consciously or not, what God actually wants.

You think its insulting to us Muslims---but No!! Its Insulting to you, because of your own lack of knowledge? Pretty much so.

According to Quran anyones who kills a innocent humanbeing is not a Muslim

Btw I think Osama is FBI agent---9/11 is all bulls crap
 

Faithfreedom

i gotta change my avatar
Well Christians say the follow/love Jesus , when they clearly don't follow his teachings , that means your love is fake----
Over the years, i come to realise that Muslims and Christians can use the same word but with a different meaning in each other minds. When Muslims say they follow the Quran, it means they literally follow word for word what it says because that is the literal word of Allah ad-verbatim. But when Christians say they follow Jesus, they mean they follow the Jesus in their hearts, whom they have a personal relationship with, whom the Holy Spirit have made real to them. Christians use the bible only as a guideline. We are not slave chained to every word in the bible as muslims are to their Quran. Jesus actually speaks to Christians in their hearts. The Holy Spirit in Christians confirms it to the Christian. This is what Christians mean when they say they follow Jesus Christ. What i say will ring a chord in Christians. Muslims have no hope of understanding this. It is beyond them. It is this thing that feeds and sustains Christians.

Christians' love for Jesus is not fake. It is real because we feel it deep within our souls.

On the other hand we Muslims not only love Jeus(pbuh) but also follow his teachings :yes:
Ok, what did your Jesus(pbuh) of the Quran actually teach?
Did he teach:
"Few Examples
1)We don't drink Alcohol just like bible says
2)We don't have poke just like bible says
3)We believe in One GOD and the same God to who Jesus worshiped"

Well, my Jesus of the bible taught that its ok to drink alcohol but not to the extent that we get drunk. Why, he even turn water into the best wine at a wedding. He even drank some wine before his farewell, promising his disciples that he will not drink wine again until his disciples are again together with him in his Father's house.

Jesus says it is not what goes into a person that defiles them. It is what comes out of their hearts that defiles them. (hatred, anger, lust,jealousies, put your 7 deadly sins here, etc...). Thus Jesus declared that all foods were permissible.

I also "believe in One GOD and the same God to who Jesus worshiped". Most Christians do not ponder on what the bible actually teaches. One example is Col 1:15 to 16 "He (Jesus) is the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities, all things were created by him and for him."

Jesus is a creation. Therefore Jesus is NOT God. (but God has given him so much power that Jesus seems to us like a mighty god (not almighty though).
God created him first before anything else. ("the firstborn over all creation")
Hence Jesus is also referred to as "the only begotton Son of God". That is to say, Jesus was the only one that God personally created with his own hands, so to speak. Nothing else has that honor. After being created, Jesus personally created everything else that was on God's mind (ie "by him all things were created"). Yes, by all things, i mean that even time itself was created by Jesus according to the will of God his father/creator.

You can call him only Jesus while we always say (Peach Be Upon Him) after his name---so we certainly respect him more than a Christian does
Christians show our respect to Jesus by obeying him. He does not need our wishes of Peace because he is the Prince of Peace. It is us who need HIS peace. On the other hand Mohammad definately need all your supplications for his peace due to the ernormous amount of blood guilt on his hand which happened while he was alive and also for the blood guilt committed by his rightly guided followers as a result of following his teachings after he was dead.

Again, your Jesus(pbuh) of the Quran is NOT the same as my Jesus of the Bible!
 

Faithfreedom

i gotta change my avatar
You think its insulting to us Muslims---but No!! Its Insulting to you, because of your own lack of knowledge? Pretty much so.

According to Quran anyones who kills a innocent humanbeing is not a Muslim

Btw I think Osama is FBI agent---9/11 is all bulls crap
I love muslims, they are people. It is Islam that I hate. Islam is making them backward and causing a lot of sufferings.

I was not aiming to insult. I was aiming to open the eyes of muslims to make them see that Mohammad was not a prophet of God. No prophet (here again, i mean in the Christian sense) will have so much blood on his hands. (Don't quote me David. To Christians, he was a King rather than a prophet)

If i lack knowledge, then teach me. I would like to change my worldview if i am wrong. But i doubt you can convince me otherwise as long as muslims (so very much more than others) keep on killing and rampaging. When they stop all this nonsense and progress and become rich. Then you don't have to say anything because muslims will then COMMAND my respect!
 

Midnight Pete

Well-Known Member
Well Christians say the follow/love Jesus , when they clearly don't follow his teachings , that means your love is fake----On the other hand we Muslims not only love Jeus(pbuh) but also follow his teachings :yes:

Few Examples
1)We don't drink Alcohol just like bible says
2)We don't have poke just like bible says
3)We believe in One GOD and the same God to who Jesus worshiped

You can call him only Jesus while we always say (Peach Be Upon Him) after his name---so we certainly respect him more than a Christian does

Really? You don't acknowledge his divinity or that he was crucified.
 

A Thousand Suns

Rationalist
I love muslims, they are people. It is Islam that I hate. Islam is making them backward and causing a lot of sufferings.
Ohh Boy!! You act like you know all about Islam but in reality you know nothing---not even 0.000000001%

It was according to the same media 100-150 years ago used by Uk to make Americans looks like terrorists

You should stop using media as your prime source of knowledge about Islam

I was not aiming to insult.
Like I said it was not insulting to us Muslims but insulting to you---it showed how ignorant of a person you are
I was aiming to open the eyes of muslims to make them see that Mohammad was not a prophet of God. No prophet (here again, i mean in the Christian sense) will have so much blood on his hands. (Don't quote me David. To Christians, he was a King rather than a prophet)
And guess what , its you who has his eyes closed----You think Muhammad(pbuh) is not the Prophet of God but in reality you are soo wrong

'Most of them follow nothing but conjecture, and conjecture is no substitute for the truth. God is fully aware of everything they do.' (10:36)

'They found their parents astray. And they blindly followed in their footsteps.' (37:69-70)

If you think Quran is not from the God then attempt the challenge posed by Quran if you speak the truth

And if you are in doubt as to which We have revealed to Our servant, then produce a sura like it, and call on your helper, besides Allah, if you are truthful. (Qur'an 2:23)
If i lack knowledge, then teach me. I would like to change my worldview if i am wrong. But i doubt you can convince me otherwise as long as muslims (so very much more than others) keep on killing and rampaging. When they stop all this nonsense and progress and become rich. Then you don't have to say anything because muslims will then COMMAND my respect!
Well If you pick up the stats of top 10 people/terrorist who killed most human beings in the world---Most of them are Christians and---Geroge Bush being the no 1 terrorist according to me

Also what do think about the groups like CATHOLIC TERRORIST 'IRISH REPUBLICAN ARMY' who killed a lot of innocent human in world

But unlike you I don't blame Christianity for it because i have read bible and nowhere it says to kill innocent human beings

And its same with Islam Quran says "whoever kills an innocent, it is as if he has killed all mankind; and whoever saves a person, it is as if he has saved all mankind."

I challenge you there is not a single verse in Quran which says KILL innocent/non-muslims ---unless you quote a verse out of context
 
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A Thousand Suns

Rationalist
Really? You don't acknowledge his divinity or that he was crucified.
NO----because I clearly showed from the Bible---Jesus said I am the messenger of God ----MY Father/God is greater than all

And crucifixion never occurred that another debate

but this is what Quran says

Qur'an, 4:157-159
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of God";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- Nay, God raised him up unto Himself; and God is Exalted in Power, Wise;-And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them"
 

Midnight Pete

Well-Known Member
This thread was a trap. The OP question was disingenuous, Thousand Suns, if you already had your answer. Don't ask baited questions! :mad:
 

Faithfreedom

i gotta change my avatar
Ohh Boy!! You act like you know Islam but Islam but in reality you know nothing---not even 0.000000001%
I'm not acting. I tell it like i sees it. Without fear or favor.

It was according to the same media 100-150 years ago used be Uk to make Americans looks like terrorists

You should stop using media as your prime source of knowledge about Islam
Media is not my only source. There is the Quran, the Hadiths, the Sunah, History, newspapers, tv, conversations with many muslims, google, islamic websites, anti-islamic websites, the state of affairs now, etc

Like I said it was not insulting to us Muslims but insulting to you---it showed how ignorant of a person you are
I don't feel insulted at all by my ignorance. Ignorance is not a crime. The crime is in remaining ignorant.

And guess what , its you who has his eyes closed----You think Muhammad(pbuh) is not the Prophet of God but in reality you are soo wrong

'Most of them follow nothing but conjecture, and conjecture is no substitute for the truth. God is fully aware of everything they do.' (10:36)

'They found their parents astray. And they blindly followed in their footsteps.' (37:69-70)
My parents are Buddhists. Like most parents of other religions, they gave me freedom of choice. I started off as an atheist, then Buddhist, then Christian. It is Islam that forces parents to force their children to "blindly follow in their footsteps".

If you think Quran is not from the God then attempt the challenge posed by Quran if you speak the truth

And if you are in doubt as to which We have revealed to Our servant, then produce a sura like it, and call on your helper, besides Allah, if you are truthful. (Qur'an 2:23)
No problem. Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, far surpasses any sura in the Qur'an.

Well If you pick up the stats of top 10 people/terrorist who killed most human beings in the world---Most of them are Christians and---Geroge Bush being the no 1 terrorist according to me
Many call themselves Christians but are not. Christians follow Jesus Christ. Jesus shunned politics. Bush did not shun politics. Ergo Bush is not Christian.

Also what do think about the groups like CATHOLIC TERRORIST 'IRISH REPUBLICAN ARMY' who killed a lot of innocent human in world
Many call themselves Christians but are not. Christians follow Jesus Christ. Jesus never killed; not only that but he preached against killing. IRA murdered. Ergo IRA was not Christian.

But unlike you I don't blame Christianity for it because i have read bible and nowhere it says to kill innocent human beings
It says no killing period! OT was over and done with. NT says no killing period! I blame Islam because they always shout, "Allahu akbar!" when they kill. They were doing it in God's name! What is it in Islam that makes it so easy to manipulate people, i wonder. Sure there were crazy christian preachers too (Jim Jones of Jamestown massacre), but so very few. Its harder to twist a book when its message throughout is love. I blame Islam because the Qur'an is so easy to twist. The examples of Mohammad and the Caliphs just adds fuel to the fire. The internet is the right tool to expose everything to the light of truth. People are now more educated. They will know how to choose.

And its same with Islam Quran says "whoever kills an innocent, it is as if he has killed all mankind; and whoever saves a person, it is as if he has saved all mankind."
That quote was for the children of isreal - the jews. The Qur'an can be interpreted in many ways. The way of love loses out most of the time and Mohammad was the best example of this.

I challenge you there is not a single verse in Quran which says KILL innocent/non-muslims ---unless you quote a verse out of context
The Quran is replete with killing verses. "Context" is what muslims use to excuse it.
"Oh, that was in self-defense." or "Oh, the other side broke the treaty first." or "Oh, they were in a state of war at that time". Christians have no excuse. Jesus Christ didn't kill. Jesus preached against killing. Real Christians DO NOT KILL!
 

A Thousand Suns

Rationalist
I'm not acting.
You sure are----rather than having a decent discussion about Christianity ,you start attacking Islam--A technique used by those people who cannot debate
Media is not my only source. There is the Quran, the Hadiths, the Sunah, History, newspapers, tv, conversations with many muslims, google, islamic websites, anti-islamic websites, the state of affairs now, etc
Still it appears you don't even know 0.00001% about Islam
I don't feel insulted at all by my ignorance. Ignorance is not a crime. The crime is in remaining ignorant.
Yes you still remain a ignorant---you are self-righteous----misguided etc
My parents are Buddhists. Like most parents of other religions, they gave me freedom of choice. I started off as an atheist, then Buddhist, then Christian. It is Islam that forces parents to force their children to "blindly follow in their footsteps".
Touchy---and how does "Islam that forces parents to force their children to "blindly follow in their footsteps"---might be helpful if you quote the scripture here
No problem. Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, far surpasses any sura in the Qur'an.
Says the guy who haven't read Quran--lol

and we know how bible "surpasses any sura"

you know what Christian scholar say about bible "it is a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy"---most of the parts of bible are fabricated and just to prove that there are thousands of contradictions found in bible

so how does Bible surpasses Quran when it has thousands of contraindications including (scientific,mathematical & historic) :facepalm:

Many call themselves Christians but are not. Christians follow Jesus Christ. Jesus shunned politics. Bush did not shun politics. Ergo Bush is not Christian.

Many call themselves Christians but are not. Christians follow Jesus Christ. Jesus never killed; not only that but he preached against killing. IRA murdered. Ergo IRA was not Christian.
Then same can be said about those Muslim---why the double-standards

It says no killing period! OT was over and done with. NT says no killing period! I blame Islam because they always shout, "Allahu akbar!" when they kill. They were doing it in God's name! What is it in Islam that makes it so easy to manipulate people, i wonder. Sure there were crazy christian preachers too (Jim Jones of Jamestown massacre), but so very few. Its harder to twist a book when its message throughout is love. I blame Islam because the Qur'an is so easy to twist. The examples of Mohammad and the Caliphs just adds fuel to the fire. The internet is the right tool to expose everything to the light of truth. People are now more educated. They will know how to choose.

And guess what , even the educated people kill for example Hitler---he passed school/collage but killed millions of people---and if education solved the problem then why America which we assume is very modern/educated country in the world but has the highest RAPE/MURDER/ROBBERY rate in the world

And Internet tool to expose then why is Islam the fastest spreading religion in world

According to American media "every year 20,000 people convert to islam in amercia alone
According to EU media "Isalm is the fastes spreading religion in Europe"

That quote was for the children of isreal - the jews. The Qur'an can be interpreted in many ways. The way of love loses out most of the time and Mohammad was the best example of this.
There are tons of verse which says not to fight , have mercy on others etc

The Quran is replete with killing verses. "Context" is what muslims use to excuse it.
"Oh, that was in self-defense." or "Oh, the other side broke the treaty first." or "Oh, they were in a state of war at that time". Christians have no excuse. Jesus Christ didn't kill. Jesus preached against killing. Real Christians DO NOT KILL!

Ok we dont make excuses---you put those verses here with the full context , we will see who is wrong or right

also you forget to read those verse in bible

According to the “Bible” God tells Moses and Aaron to go to the Midianites and kill all
the men, then take the booty, take all women and children back to their encampments, then kill all the mothers (because they had sex), then to kill all the boys, and finally to take all the virgins as slaves: 13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.
14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.
15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
19 And do ye abide without the camp seven days: whosoever hath killed any person, and whosoever hath touched any slain, purify both yourselves and your captives on the third day, and on the seventh day.
[KJV Numbers 31:13-19] Stone them to death who leave your religion for an infidel religion:
1 Thou shalt not sacrifice unto the LORD thy God any bullock, or sheep, wherein is blemish, or any evilfavouredness: for that is an abomination unto the LORD thy God.
2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:
5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
[KJV Deuteronomy 17:1-5]
Stone them to death who try to convert you to another religion:
6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
[KJV Deuteronomy 13:6-10]

And yes according to Bible you should follow Moses(pbuh)

Matthew 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
 
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Wessexman

Member
Christians believe that Paul was the inspired follower of God and apostle of Jesus. This is a basic part of the Christian faith. Traditional Christianity is not simply based on literal readings of the scripture but on sacred tradition, traditional interpretations and metaphysics, the patristic authority, church councils and so forth.

Though some of the rigid formulations of dogmatic Christian theology might be a little un-nuanced I don't think the doctrine of the Trinity as such is against anything in Islam, though it is not emphasised. As long as one recognises that when one is talking of the three persons as separable one has already descended from the divine essence then there is nothing against the basic unity preached in Islam.
 

Faithfreedom

i gotta change my avatar
You sure are----
Am not.

...rather than having a decent discussion about Christianity ,you start attacking Islam--A technique used by those people who cannot debate
I've answered your question on whom Christians follow. I've elaborated on it. I've made transparent my position, strategies and the reasons for them. I go even further to expose your strategy and goals. I gave the reasons why they won't work. This necessitates attacking Islam. This is telling it all at once without having to waste time debating back and forth. Pretty efficient, i should think. Yes, you are right, i am lousy at debating; i tells it like i sees it.

Still it appears you don't even know 0.00001% about Islam
Yes you still remain a ignorant---you are self-righteous----misguided etc[/quote]Proof me wrong then, why don't cha?

Touchy---and how does "Islam that forces parents to force their children to "blindly follow in their footsteps"---might be helpful if you quote the scripture here
You quoted this, 'Most of them follow nothing but conjecture, and conjecture is no substitute for the truth. God is fully aware of everything they do.' (10:36)
'They found their parents astray. And they blindly followed in their footsteps.' (37:69-70)". You are saying that this applies to me. I'm quoting it back to you to say that you are such a victim of that verse. Your parents are probably muslims and they have brainwashed you from birth.

Says the guy who haven't read Quran--lol
I have read the Quran. Its the worst book i have ever read. Soo disconnected. No head; no tail. No story flow. It gives me a headache.

and we know how bible "surpasses any sura"

you know what Christian scholar say about bible "it is a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy"---most of the parts of bible are fabricated and just to prove that there are thousands of contradictions found in bible

so how does Bible surpasses Quran when it has thousands of contraindications including (scientific,mathematical & historic) :facepalm:
The proof is in the pudding. Christianity works. It flies. Islam is lame.


Then same can be said about those Muslim---why the double-standards
The same can be said about moderate Muslim.
Moderate muslims are the ones who do not follow the real Islam. This Islam i love.
Real muslims follow the examples of Mohammad - the real Islam. This Islam i hate.
Bible is the book of love. Christians who don't follow it are the Crusaders, IRA.
Quran is the book of hate. Muslims who don't follow it are the majority ie moderate muslims. No double standards. One is the book of love, the other is the book of hate.

And guess what , even the educated people kill for example Hitler---he passed school/collage but killed millions of people---and if education solved the problem then why America which we assume is very modern/educated country in the world but has the highest RAPE/MURDER/ROBBERY rate in the world
More than education is needed. Wisdom is needed. Love is needed. The holy spirit is needed. Free countries report crimes more accurately than islamic countries. How to report when you need 4 witness to a rape? so most rapes are never reported in islamic countries.

And Internet tool to expose then why is Islam the fastest spreading religion in world

According to American media "every year 20,000 people convert to islam
According to EU media "Isalm is the fastes spreading religion in Europe"
They will realise very soon the truth of the matter and convert out.

There are tons of verse which says not to fight , have mercy on others etc
Mohammad was a shrewd and clever battle tactician. When Islam was weak and he had a few followers, he made pleasing suras like the above - the Meccan suras. But when he had a lot of followers and Islam grew strong, he gave the Medina suras.

Ok we dont make excuses---you put those verses here with the full context , we will see who is wrong or right
This is not the thread for it. If i am so inclined, i may start a new thread for it. I'm sure you can explain it all away. I am familiar with the 'explanations'.

also you forget to read those verse in bible

According to the “Bible” God tells Moses and Aaron to go to the Midianites and kill all
the men, then take the booty, take all women and children back to their encampments, then kill all the mothers (because they had sex), then to kill all the boys, and finally to take all the virgins as slaves: 13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.
14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.
15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
19 And do ye abide without the camp seven days: whosoever hath killed any person, and whosoever hath touched any slain, purify both yourselves and your captives on the third day, and on the seventh day.
[KJV Numbers 31:13-19] Stone them to death who leave your religion for an infidel religion:
1 Thou shalt not sacrifice unto the LORD thy God any bullock, or sheep, wherein is blemish, or any evilfavouredness: for that is an abomination unto the LORD thy God.
2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:
5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
[KJV Deuteronomy 17:1-5]
Stone them to death who try to convert you to another religion:
6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
[KJV Deuteronomy 13:6-10]
You quote OT. That was when God was protecting the Jews from being wiped out.
Remember what i said; Christians follow the personal Jesus in their hearts. We use the bible as a guide only. We are not following OT. We are following NT.

And yes according to Bible you should follow Moses(pbuh)

Matthew 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus is the fullfilment of OT - the mosiac law.
Remember what i said; Christians follow the personal Jesus in their hearts. We use the bible as a guide only. We are not following OT. We are following NT.
 

A Thousand Suns

Rationalist
Am not.

I've answered your question on whom Christians follow.
Actually you didn't answered any of the Questions I posed , your answer were mere excuses----and the fact is most of the Christian do follow Paul's teaching its a fact and they admit it---unlike you

just like the bible says

'speak the truth and the truth shall free you'

I think you should start speaking the truth too

I've elaborated on it. I've made transparent my position, strategies and the reasons for them. I go even further to expose your strategy and goals. I gave the reasons why they won't work.
More excuses....its like talking to a 10 years old

This necessitates attacking Islam. This is telling it all at once without having to waste time debating back and forth. Pretty efficient, i should think. Yes, you are right, i am lousy at debating; i tells it like i sees it.
Actually your strong response showed that you are 'guilty conscious' about your religion , you don't want it to be discussed---If Christianity is 'right' why not show it rather acting like a idiot
Your parents are probably Muslims and they have brainwashed you from birth.
Actually they are but that doesn't means that i haven't research other religions --- infact I have studied all the major religions of world ---And it actually strengthened my faith in Islam even more :)

I have read the Quran. Its the worst book i have ever read. Soo disconnected. No head; no tail. No story flow. It gives me a headache.
You know Quran is the most read BOOK in the world----Even non-Muslims admire it-----Infact many have converted to Islam just by reading Quran and they knew it could be from none other than GOD himself---thats why GOD himself poses the challenge in Quran

"And if you are in doubt as to which We have revealed to Our servant, then produce a sura like it, and call on your helper, besides Allah, if you are truthful." (Qur'an 2:23)

And you think Quran is lame---It a special case for some people which Quran describes as

Allah (swt) mentions in Surah Al Baqarah chapter 2 verses 6 and 7

"As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them Whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.

Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur)." [Al-Qur’an 2:6-7]


The proof is in the pudding. Christianity works. It flies. Islam is lame.

Sorry buddy it isn't for me at least ----There is no solid proof that Crucifixion occurred , Trinity is not present , Jesus(pbuh) never claimed divinity , Bible got thousands of Errors etc

On the other hand Islam without a doubt(not even in the least) is the word of God and The Last/Final Testament from God to Muhammad(pbuh)

Quran [Chapter 10 Verse 37]

This Qur'an is not such as can be produced by other than Allah; on the contrary it is a confirmation of (revelations) that went before it, and a fuller explanation of the Book - wherein there is no doubt - from the Lord of the worlds.

The same can be said about moderate Muslim.
Moderate muslims are the ones who do not follow the real Islam. This Islam i love.
Real muslims follow the examples of Mohammad - the real Islam. This Islam i hate.
Bible is the book of love. Christians who don't follow it are the Crusaders, IRA.
Quran is the book of hate. Muslims who don't follow it are the majority ie moderate muslims. No double standards. One is the book of love, the other is the book of hate.

First of all there is no such thing as 'MODERATE MUSLIMS"

There are only two kind of Muslims
1)Practicing Muslim
2)Non-Practicing Muslim

And yes Practicing Muslims follow Muhammad(pbuh) and we are proud of it and we live by his example :)

And for Christians, I have not came a across a single Christian who actually follow the teachings of Bible/Jesus and i could give you many example

If Christian is a person who follows Teachings of Jesus but not worship him , then we Muslims are more Christians the Christians themselves


More than education is needed. Wisdom is needed. Love is needed. The holy spirit is needed. Free countries report crimes more accurately than islamic countries. How to report when you need 4 witness to a rape? so most rapes are never reported in islamic countries.
Its not about where crime is reported accurately but why does rape occur on first place-----and in Islamic countries its 1000x less than Christian countries

And we know adultery is common in western country---then according to Bible all Christian's are going to hell

NT

Matthew 19:9 "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

Mark 10:11 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her."

Mark 10:12 "And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery."

Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery."

OT

Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die."

Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."

Proverbs 6:32 "But a man who commits adultery lacks judgment; whoever does so destroys himself."

They will realise very soon the truth of the matter and convert out.
Actually they don't



Mohammad was a shrewd and clever battle tactician.
Wrong---he was a merchant so he couldn't be a 'clever battle tactician'

When Islam was weak and he had a few followers, he made pleasing suras like the above - the Meccan suras. But when he had a lot of followers and Islam grew strong, he gave the Medina suras.
Wrong again he was ILLITERATE so he couldn't read or write
And thats is why Quran Poses this test---why don't you try and prove it wrong

"And if you are in doubt as to which We have revealed to Our servant, then produce a sura like it, and call on your helper, besides Allah, if you are truthful." (Qur'an 2:23)

This is not the thread for it. If i am so inclined, i may start a new thread for it. I'm sure you can explain it all away. I am familiar with the 'explanations'.
I wont be giving any explanations you just have to know the context :)

You quote OT. That was when God was protecting the Jews from being wiped out.
Remember what i said; Christians follow the personal Jesus in their hearts. We use the bible as a guide only. We are not following OT. We are following NT.
Apologetics at finest----bible clearly says follow law of previous Prophets

Jesus is the fullfilment of OT - the mosiac law.
Where is that written in Bible??

Remember what i said; Christians follow the personal Jesus in their hearts. We use the bible as a guide only. We are not following OT. We are following NT.
Actually most of the Christians are not following the both---they just believe that----you will go to haven If you believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins, and that he is your savior, then you will go to Heaven.
 

smokydot

Well-Known Member
Actually you didn't answered any of the Questions I posed , your answer were mere excuses----and the fact is most of the Christian do follow Paul's teaching its a fact and they admit it---unlike you
just like the bible says 'speak the truth and the truth shall free you'
I think you should start speaking the truth too
More excuses....its like talking to a 10 years old
Actually your strong response showed that you are 'guilty conscious' about your religion , you don't want it to be discussed---If Christianity is 'right' why not show it rather acting like a idiot
Actually they are but that doesn't means that i haven't research other religions --- infact I have studied all the major religions of world ---And it actually strengthened my faith in Islam even more :)
You know Quran is the most read BOOK in the world----Even non-Muslims admire it-----Infact many have converted to Islam just by reading Quran and they knew it could be from none other than GOD himself---thats why GOD himself poses the challenge in Quran
"And if you are in doubt as to which We have revealed to Our servant, then produce a sura like it, and call on your helper, besides Allah, if you are truthful." (Qur'an 2:23)
And you think Quran is lame---It a special case for some people which Quran describes as Allah (swt) mentions in Surah Al Baqarah chapter 2 verses 6 and 7
"As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them Whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.
Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur)." [Al-Qur’an 2:6-7]
Sorry buddy it isn't for me at least ----There is no solid proof that Crucifixion occurred , Trinity is not present , Jesus(pbuh) never claimed divinity , Bible got thousands of Errors etc
On the other hand Islam without a doubt(not even in the least) is the word of God and The Last/Final Testament from God to Muhammad(pbuh)
Quran [Chapter 10 Verse 37]
This Qur'an is not such as can be produced by other than Allah; on the contrary it is a confirmation of (revelations) that went before it, and a fuller explanation of the Book - wherein there is no doubt - from the Lord of the worlds.
First of all there is no such thing as 'MODERATE MUSLIMS"
There are only two kind of Muslims
1)Practicing Muslim
2)Non-Practicing Muslim
And yes Practicing Muslims follow Muhammad(pbuh) and we are proud of it and we live by his example :)
And for Christians, I have not came a across a single Christian who actually follow the teachings of Bible/Jesus and i could give you many example
If Christian is a person who follows Teachings of Jesus but not worship him , then we Muslims are more Christians the Christians themselves
Its not about where crime is reported accurately but why does rape occur on first place-----and in Islamic countries its 1000x less than Christian countries
And we know adultery is common in western country---then according to Bible all Christian's are going to hell
NT
Matthew 19:9 "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."
Mark 10:11 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her."
Mark 10:12 "And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery."
Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery."
OT
Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die."
Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."
Proverbs 6:32 "But a man who commits adultery lacks judgment; whoever does so destroys himself."
Actually they don't
Wrong---he was a merchant so he couldn't be a 'clever battle tactician'
Wrong again he was ILLITERATE so he couldn't read or write
And thats is why Quran Poses this test---why don't you try and prove it wrong
"And if you are in doubt as to which We have revealed to Our servant, then produce a sura like it, and call on your helper, besides Allah, if you are truthful." (Qur'an 2:23)
I wont be giving any explanations you just have to know the context :)
Apologetics at finest----bible clearly says follow law of previous Prophets
Where is that written in Bible??

Actually most of the Christians are not following the both---they just believe that----you will go to haven If you believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins, and that he is your savior, then you will go to Heaven.

Paul reveals the doctrine which Jesus revealed to him.
Paul wrote most of the NT.
To follow the doctrine of Paul is to follow the doctrine of Jesus.
 
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