Who do you think is enlightened in the world today?

[YmirGF]

To me, the "textbook" sense of who's enlightened is as meaningless as the "textbook" sense of who's saved. How does one person presume to know whether someone else is enlightened? Isn't this a highly personal thing?

If one uses the dictionary meaning of the word then many people would indeed fit the bill. I thought I was being rather generous in stating that there are many, many illuminated people in our world today. When I use the term "enlightened" I am meaning it in the traditional sense as outlined in Buddhism and perhaps I should have used that definition rather than saying "textbook" though I thought that perhaps people would understand.

Evidently many here on RF have a far greater personal understanding of enlightenment than do I. That is a bit of a revelation, I must admit and I am, if not chastened, somewhat humbled. I had no idea I was in such august company.

It would seem that many of you would toss about the label “enlightened” like a box of cornflakes. “Enlightened” is seen as a simple honorific and indicative of someone who is merely pretty successful or in other cases, simply wise. I did get a good chuckle over Maggie2’s list. Oprah? Jimmy Carter? Oy vey. If only there were truly enlightened. Don’t get me too wrong Maggie, I love Oprah and think she is wonderful, but “enlightened” she is not. Likewise, Jimmy Carter is a VERY smart man, but he seems to have taken leave of his sense of late… again, if only he was enlightened.

How does one person presume to know whether someone else is enlightened?

A very good question and I would like to hear the responses of others as well. I would tell you that if you meet such an individual you WILL know it. That is, providing of course, they want you to notice them. There will be an inner certainty that your mind may well recoil against, but your body will know regardless of what you think.

I might also point out that the Dalai Lama has specifically stated, on camera, that he is NOT enlightened. Far be it for me to say that the man doesn’t know what he is talking about in regards to his own inner state. I take him at his word, lol. Evidently some of you feel you know his inner state better than he knows it himself. That is fascinating, to be sure, or am I to believe that he was just being coy and modest for the cameras? Though he is a perfect example of an illuminated man, is it truthful to say he is “enlightened”? I would suggest that it is not.

Otoh, as many here are packing weaponry of all sorts, perhaps I should be a tiny bit more respectful of your enlightened thoughts. :slap:

 

[Green Gaia]

I believe Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was enlightened.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

If one uses the dictionary meaning of the word then many people would indeed fit the bill. I thought I was being rather generous in stating that there are many, many illuminated people in our world today. When I use the term "enlightened" I am meaning it in the traditional sense as outlined in Buddhism and perhaps I should have used that definition rather than saying "textbook" though I thought that perhaps people would understand.

Evidently many here on RF have a far greater personal understanding of enlightenment than do I. That is a bit of a revelation, I must admit and I am, if not chastened, somewhat humbled. I had no idea I was in such august company.

It would seem that many of you would toss about the label “enlightened” like a box of cornflakes. “Enlightened” is seen as a simple honorific and indicative of someone who is merely pretty successful or in other cases, simply wise. I did get a good chuckle over Maggie2’s list. Oprah? Jimmy Carter? Oy vey. If only there were truly enlightened. Don’t get me too wrong Maggie, I love Oprah and think she is wonderful, but “enlightened” she is not. Likewise, Jimmy Carter is a VERY smart man, but he seems to have taken leave of his sense of late… again, if only he was enlightened.

How does one person presume to know whether someone else is enlightened?

A very good question and I would like to hear the responses of others as well. I would tell you that if you meet such an individual you WILL know it. That is, providing of course, they want you to notice them. There will be an inner certainty that your mind may well recoil against, but your body will know regardless of what you think.

I might also point out that the Dalai Lama has specifically stated, on camera, that he is NOT enlightened. Far be it for me to say that the man doesn’t know what he is talking about in regards to his own inner state. I take him at his word, lol. Evidently some of you feel you know his inner state better than he knows it himself. That is fascinating, to be sure, or am I to believe that he was just being coy and modest for the cameras? Though he is a perfect example of an illuminated man, is it truthful to say he is “enlightened”? I would suggest that it is not.

Otoh, as many here are packing weaponry of all sorts, perhaps I should be a tiny bit more respectful of your enlightened thoughts. :slap:

That's why I posted it in the forum where everyone can put their opinion, and not specifically in the Buddhism forum. But that doesn't mean you're wrong, Paul.



BTW, I think His Holiness is wrong.



How's that for a catch-22? LOL




Peace,
Mystic

 

[Ozzie]

My first answer is a little obvious.



His Holiness the Dalai Lama.



Peace,
Mystic

There is a good chance your right. I wouldn't doubt it on what I know of DL. But, I am wondering why when he passes on, the Tibetans will seek their next DL if this one is enlightened. Doesn't enlightenment end the cycle of rebirth?

 

[autonomous1one1]

Greetings,

One consideration for defining 'enlightenment' is - a Being realizes identity with the Source of all being. With this definition in mind, let me suggest a person in the world today that seems enlightened to me - Eckhart Tolle - and see what you think. His books, "The Power of Now" and "A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life's Purpose" convinced me.

Incidentally, Oprah and Tolle have teamed in a 10 week, Monday night webcast to discuss his book, "A New Earth." Two sessions have passed and their attendance has been the largest ever. Archives and transcripts are available on the web. If you are interested one can find information on Oprah's web site - Get Health, Beauty, Recipes, Money, Decorating and Relationship Advice on Oprah.com. - of course.

Regards

 

[Smoke]

That's okay, mine is too. President Gordon B. Hinckley, current Prophet of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I read this before I realized how old the post was; it startled me.

Anyway, it's an interesting question. I've been mulling over several people in my mind, but I don't really know. I suspect that enlightenment may be something you can't recognize in others until you've experienced it yourself, so the bottom line is, all I could do would be to guess.

 

[Somkid]

Yep, Dalai Lama gets my vote. I know quite a few monks in China and Japan that I would say were enlightened but very few in Thailand well, maybe 1 or 2.

 

[Sunstone]

I'm not very good at guessing whether people I haven't met are enlightened. I'm only a little bit better at guessing whether people I have met are enlightened. It seems to me though, that I've met a few people over the years who were enlightened. No one famous. Just enlightened.

 

[Troublemane]

Ken Wilber gets my vote!

 

[crystalonyx]

It all depends upon your viewpoint.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Ken Wilber gets my vote!

LOL Remember when we would joke about how you'd finally get the chance to meet him, and he'd greet you with all kinds of questions and details about your life?

Ken Wilber is incredibly gifted. :yes:




Peace,
Mystic

 

[Valjean]

I'm not aware of any enlightened "persons."
I know of meritorious persons, wise persons, even saintly persons, but these are not what is generally meant by Enlightenment, in the religious sense. To my knowledge, I've never met an actual "person" affected by this most extreme form of psychosis. I've met the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who was claimed to be enlightened, but I have no way of verifying this.

 

[Hema]

Sai Baba and...

Sri Vasudeva, someone I consider as my guru. He's from the Blue Star Yoga Ashram started in Trinidad but now has branches all over the world.

This is a link for their website: Entry Page

I know that he's enlightened because whenever I have felt spiritually weak, somehow events arrange themselves so that I attend one of his services and everytime I feel as though his discourse pertains to me...as if he's saying everything to make me feel better.

There was one point in my life when I was feeling so depressed, suicidal even. Then I went to attend one of his Satsanghs (gatherings). When he arrived he looked at me and smiled. I felt an overwhelming sense of joy. My sadness disappeared. It was unlike any joy I've known, it was something divine. Somehow I kept on smiling for a long while afterwards. I felt as though he touched my Spirit and picked it up.

 

[Fluffy]

Nobody yet.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Pramukh Swami...

 

[dogsgod]

The term "Age of Enlightenment" can more narrowly refer to the intellectual movement of The Enlightenment, which advocated reason as the primary basis of authority. Developing in France, Britain and Germany, the Enlightenment influenced most of Europe, including Russia and Scandinavia. The era is marked by such political changes as governmental consolidation, nation-creation, greater rights for common people, and a decline in the influence of authoritarian institutions such as the nobility and Church.
There is no consensus on when to date the start of the Age of Enlightenment, and a number of scholars simply use the beginning of the eighteenth century as a default date.[2] Many scholars use the beginning of the Napoleonic Wars (1804–15) as a convenient point in time with which to date the end of the Enlightenment.[3]
from wikipedia



So, reason over faith, that rules out the Dalai Lama and Oprah.



.

 

[autonomous1one1]

I'm not aware of any enlightened "persons."
I know of meritorious persons, wise persons, even saintly persons, but these are not what is generally meant by Enlightenment, in the religious sense. To my knowledge, I've never met an actual "person" affected by this most extreme form of psychosis. I've met the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who was claimed to be enlightened, but I have no way of verifying this.

Greetings Seyorni,

You always make such insightful points. Would you mind offering a little more about the use of the term 'persons' with 'enlightened' so that I and others can benefit fully from your wisdom?
Regards

 

[blackout]

Me! :rainbow1:

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Does Sri Aurobindo count?

 

[autonomous1one1]

Greetings Mystic. Permit me to add another candidate to the 'Enlightened' list - Genpo Roshi. He is currently participating with Bill Harris, Ken Wilber, and others in a free online course to help understanding of Eckhart Tolle's teachings and aid awakening. The following is a description of him provided in information about teachers in the course:

"Genpo Roshi is a fully enlightened Zen master and head of the largest Zen sangha in the world outside of Japan. As a Westerner, Genpo has artfully combined Zen with Western psychological approaches. His Big Mind Big Heart process allows anyone to have the experience of Oneness, or what Eckhart Tolle calls Presence, immediately."

Best Wishes,
a..1