Nanda
Polyanna
If that's the criteria, then I'm not sure that anyone is.
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Who do you think is enlightened in the world today?
- Thread starter MysticSang'ha
- Start date
If that's the criteria, then I'm not sure that anyone is.
ranjana
Active Member
im sure 'enlightened people' dont mind a little hard work, im pretty sure they dont mind anything at all!
but its for people who are looking for guidance that would want a teacher who is not wrapped up in a 9 to 5, wasting precious time they could be helping another to unfold their awareness!
i think being a full time spiritual teacher is kind of a 'job' though a very blessed one! so this work is part of their own unfolding consciousness. it doesnt have to be about chopping wood and carrying water all the time!
and i agree that they would be happy just to know they've helped someone on their path, thats why its not usually 'pay me money or i wont teach you!' that has never been my experience.
all im saying is why should this knowledge be for free and those who are selflessly devoted to bringing this knowledge into people's awareness should receive nothing for their work? again, what else do you propose we exchange? nothing? youre saying its our god-given right to be taught the nature of our true being?
I would say we already ARE that, most of us just have no idea. so its naturally our right to BE free, because we already ARE. but if you want to KNOW it, then you have to learn it, just like any other knowledge. and learning it takes a teacher, and this teacher is also a human being (for the most part!), and this teacher is a blessing in your life so why should you take and take what the teacher is offering and give nothing in return?
That's an interesting comment. Most people would say Jesus was enlightened, but he was probably one of the most blatent when saying he "was the way, the truth, and the light" etc. So my question is this: If people say they are enlightened, does that mean they aren't, or if they say they aren't enlightened, does that mean they are? I'm not really sure who I think is enlightened. I guess I say that because we are all enlightened in our own unique ways. Pieces of the complete puzzle kinda. Maybe it takes all of us collectively to represent enlightenment. Hmmm, just thinking out loud .....Anyone who says they know the way I can know my 'true self' has something to sell...
wa:do
Thich Nhat Hanh. Possibly Tony Blair, Barack Obama. Mark Evanier. Ken Wilber. Lama Padma Samten. Monk Guensho (Petrucio Chalegre). Sam Harris.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
Is enlightenment restricted to Religious persons?
This may be strange but for a non-religious person i'd have to say Karl Marx. His vision was amazing. He had an "awakening." I do not believe in communism but i think his work was well before its time.
This may be strange but for a non-religious person i'd have to say Karl Marx. His vision was amazing. He had an "awakening." I do not believe in communism but i think his work was well before its time.
Greetings. Whether to charge or not is an interesting question. Surely an Enlightened one will not need any reward, monetary or emotional, but would work towards illumination of others. On the other hand as ranjana posts, one has to eat. Perhaps the future will see a mixture of approaches. Hopefully, those that receive money either donated or sales will use that money to spirit their efforts.maybe but arent they human? shouldnt they have an income? the rest of us have jobs, (mostly) and expect to be paid as teachers, or whatever our title may be.
is the teacher supposed to live off of light?
Here is an interesting one, Bill Harris, who has a unique approach. He sells an aid for meditation (Holosync) and courses that focus on self development for success. My understanding is that he works enlightenment into his courses. When asked about charging, he replied that he could make discs and other materials available, could employ over 150 people and reach 100's of thousands throughout the world. He also makes some information about views on enlightenment available in blogs on the web free along with answers to questions. One blog string is on Tozan's (Zen master 1200 years ago) five stages of Enlightenment and another is kind of a summary of some of the thoughts supporting Enlightenment.
This a sample paragraph about the fifth rank of Tozan's five stages: http://www.centerpointe.com/blog/2008/06/10/so-there-you-are-enlightened/#more-34
The Fifth Rank is the integration of the relative and the transcendent. Ive referred to it in other things Ive written as knowing who you really are (ultimately, that you are the transcendent, the entire going on of it all, Big Mind, beyond all beginnings, beyond all endings, and without boundaries or limits) but also knowing that you are expressing That from the perspective of a limited human being, living in time, subject to the laws of cause and effect, subject to karma.
And a sample from the other string: http://www.centerpointe.com/blog/2008/10/09/what-if-theres-nothing-you-can-do-to-change-yourself/
You could say it this way: doing happens, but there is no doer, or at least no individual doer. The real doer is the whole, the entire going on of it all. It just seems as if there are lots of separate doers who could take independent action (action independent of the infinite matrix of connections that include the whole) and therefore change themselves. The separate self is just a way of thinking, not a solid realityin the same way that the border between the US and Canada is a way of thinking, but not a tangible, real line. Its just that we are so used to this way of thinking that independent separate things and doers seem incredibly real.
There is not enough written to tell if Bill Harris is himself enlightened but he seems to have an understanding. Check it out.
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
I think it is pretty obvious.
Our resident 3.14 is enlightened.
Our resident 3.14 is enlightened.
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
Please tell me you are joking.
I will readily grant that I am guessing with little information, but no, I am not joking.
Actually, I am basically going by Ken Wilber's word, as well as by a hint of good judgement in the way he renounced his power a while ago.
I may easily be wrong, however, perhaps very wrong.
Actually, I am basically going by Ken Wilber's word, as well as by a hint of good judgement in the way he renounced his power a while ago.
I may easily be wrong, however, perhaps very wrong.
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
This man followed a complete *** into Iraq...
Make no mistake, I think of the Iraq invasion as a complete disaster from the very conception of the idea. I am however assuming that Blair lacked the power to avoid it and did his best with the cards he was dealt.
Quite possibly a lot of naivete from me, I concede.
Greetings Darkendless. From my view enlightenment is not restricted to religious persons and is available for anyone, and more available today than ever before. However, although not necessarily religious before enlightenment, an enlightened one will likely be his/her own religion.
It should be noted, also, that many feel that one cannot necessarily control or guarantee one's own enlighenment. It takes something beyond the individual's control. A famous statement by Ken Wilber goes something like, 'enlightenment is an accident but one can prepare and make themself more accident prone.'
[EDIT: It is seen that Luis already answered while this post was being typed. I bow :bow: to his wisdom.
]
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Surya Deva
Well-Known Member
I doubt that many real masters live amongst us today who directly contacted the divine. Instead we have people who are relatively enlightened.
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
Yes, it is a god-given right.
Unless, god is the sort that wants the majority to suffer for the benefit of the few.
We can exchange honor, respect... friendship and the things that go along with it... but not money. Money taints everything it touches.
wa:do
ranjana
Active Member
but if its a god-given right then why is the majority of humanity completely ignorant of their true natures, and thus experience misery and pain?
why doesnt god send each person a teacher if it is their right to one?
i like this debate, dont get me wrong, i think we just have fundamentally different world views. i think a teacher is an absolute blessing, and should never be taken for granted.
why doesnt god send each person a teacher if it is their right to one?
i like this debate, dont get me wrong, i think we just have fundamentally different world views. i think a teacher is an absolute blessing, and should never be taken for granted.
methylatedghosts
Can't brain. Has dumb.
Is a person enlightened if they put their fingers in the electrical socket and begin to spark...?
capslockf9
Active Member
We are the victims of mental-emotional states because we simply don't know how to watch our minds with awareness and let these mental states go.
Enlightenment is to purge any images that were conditioned into the mind. Nationality has to go. The concept of race has to go. Patriotism has to go. And religion has to go. And many many images that the self assumes.
Enlightenment is to purge any images that were conditioned into the mind. Nationality has to go. The concept of race has to go. Patriotism has to go. And religion has to go. And many many images that the self assumes.
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
If all these things would go, there would still be something the person would think he needs to rid off in order to find his true self. I offer a different approach, a person can be enlightened AND patriotic, enlightened and support the causes of his nation and promote them. an enlightened person is one who desires to achieve equilibrium between his personal identity and his place in the world at large, as a member of his close community AND humanity. perhaps some day these notions would be symbolic, but that day will have to come through a dramatic process.
lunamoth
Will to love
I think enlightenment is a spectrum and we all have times and places where our understanding breaks through the normal veils and we 'see more.' Some people have so much light it spills over and lights the way for the rest of us.
Archbishop Desmond Tutu is one such person who has not yet been named in this thread.
Archbishop Desmond Tutu is one such person who has not yet been named in this thread.