Who do you think is enlightened in the world today?

[capslockf9]

Two sacred cows- patriotism and religious faith. With them enlightenment is impossible.
To have the mind free of any tethers is a worthwile venture.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Make no mistake, I think of the Iraq invasion as a complete disaster from the very conception of the idea. I am however assuming that Blair lacked the power to avoid it and did his best with the cards he was dealt.

Quite possibly a lot of naivete from me, I concede.

This man, was the leader of one of the most powerful nations in the world, was simply forced into Iraq. He had a choice, and i don't think he went to Iraq for WMD. I think even he thought they were non-existent.

I dont think you are particularly in a naive position. Im sure there are people in the UK who understood the USA elections better then some Americans.

 

[Caladan]

Two sacred cows- patriotism and religious faith. With them enlightenment is impossible.
To have the mind free of any tethers is a worthwile venture.

You seem to claim absolute truths. patriotism in ancient Greece was the drive force for change in the community and stimulation to fight corruption. perhaps you simply have an unenlightened vision as to what patriotism should be. patriotism promotes self sacrifice for the preservation of the character of a culture or a nation and for the common good of the community.
today, too often nationalism and patriotism are named as one and the same.
also to the moderate man of faith, religion is not an obstacle to enlightenment, for example, although Jesus and his followers were at odds with mainstream Judaism, they were still Jews.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

The Don is enlightened

 

[painted wolf]

but if its a god-given right then why is the majority of humanity completely ignorant of their true natures, and thus experience misery and pain?

The enlightenment is in the journey.

why doesnt god send each person a teacher if it is their right to one?

Why doesn't god give me all the food I could eat or a world without risk of freezing or burning?
Why doesn't god give everyone freedom and peace?
The journey is what important... the goal is just something to move toward.

i like this debate, dont get me wrong, i think we just have fundamentally different world views. i think a teacher is an absolute blessing, and should never be taken for granted.

I believe the same thing... but I also believe that the teacher is no better than the student.

wa:do

 

[ranjana]

Why doesn't god give me all the food I could eat or a world without risk of freezing or burning?

at the risk of continuing our dialogue within this thread too long, i would answer that it isnt in your rights as a human being to have all the food you could eat, or to live without risk of freezing or burning.

Why doesn't god give everyone freedom and peace?

but god does.... that is our nature even without our realization of it, god gives us freedom to choose our perception also, so we may not perceive we are free, but we are always free, even locked up in jail for life.

The journey is what important... the goal is just something to move toward.

i agree with you; if we get caught up in a goal, then we have lost the correct vision, because all that is exists is the present moment. we only have the opportunity to act in accordance to our highest awareness in the moment, as a future state of enlightenment is just an idea that doesnt exist. hopefully we meet someone who can help stretch our capacity of awareness. or hopefully we just get it by some grace!

I believe the same thing... but I also believe that the teacher is no better than the student.

absolutely agree with you! im not saying a teacher is better than anyone else, and is more deserving of one thing or another. equal but different.

 

[LuisDantas]

i would answer that it isnt in your rights as a human being to have all the food you could eat, or to live without risk of freezing or burning.

god gives us freedom to choose our perception also, so we may not perceive we are free, but we are always free, even locked up in jail for life.

You know, those are pretty good arguments against the likelyhood of existence of Abraham's God.

 

[Pah]

Any educated Atheist is enlightened

 

[LuisDantas]

I wish.

 

[capslockf9]

As infants we are all "Enlightened Masters". We are free from attachments , illusions and psychological fear.
In order to keep the dream or illusion we are inculcated. In other word the myths believed by our parent, teachers, priest, etc. are infused into this noble mind. The lies unenlighten.
BUT it is never to late to purge the mind of make believe and return to being enlightened.

The antithesis of an education or knowledge is not ignorance but the illusion of knowledge.

 

[autonomous1one1]

Greetings. Has anyone come across material from Barbara Marx Hubbard? With Enlightenment considered to be the realization of identity with the Source of all being, a cursory look in her book "Emergence" indicates that she should be another candidate for our list of the Enlightened.

 

[ayani]

yikes. in an inter-faith context, that can mean so may things. for a Christian, it may mean being "born on the Spirit", as Christ described. for a Zen Buddhist, it could mean satori or an understanding of emptiness, for a Hindu moksha, for...

inter-religiously the ways of interpreting the term are so many, is it even a universaly askable question?

MS, can i ask, has the Dalai Lama ever actually claimed to himself be enlightened? in what way? how does Vajrayana Buddhis understand the concept differ from other forms of Buddhism?

 

[Runewolf1973]

My first answer is a little obvious.



His Holiness the Dalai Lama.



Peace,
Mystic

We are ALL enlightened, we just don't realize it yet. Soon those ripples will fade and in the "stillness" will there show it's true reflection.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Runewolf,
On the right WAY.
keep up the *awareness* till it stills.
Thereafter; you are no more and the flow shall carry what remains.
LOve & rgds

could't frubal you twice today.

 

[Not Bob]

To be enlightened means to be "awakened." To be free from delusion. Whom do you consider, then, to most have this quality? Who do you consider has by teachings or example (or both) to lead people away from suffering and ignorance?




I'm looking for people who are alive today or who have recently departed.



Peace,
Mystic

Desmond Tutu

 

[Runewolf1973]

Friend Runewolf,
On the right WAY.
keep up the *awareness* till it stills.
Thereafter; you are no more and the flow shall carry what remains.
LOve & rgds

could't frubal you twice today.

Haha! Okay, so here's a frubal for you instead. Thanks for NO-*THING*.... Just kidding.

Your comments are appreciated my friend.

 

[tomspug]

My first answer is a little obvious.



His Holiness the Dalai Lama.



Peace,
Mystic

I don't have a personal definition of enlightenment, but I imagine that anyone who stops trying to change the world and starts trying to change the heart is an enlightened person.

 

[Renji]

People like you who sends kindness and frubals to everyone
I purify thee with my holy flames!

 

[Ozzie]

Why is it that if Buddhas are common, that they do not exert more influence? Why is Buddha revered like the Jesus of Buddhism, if enlightenment is common and accessible?

 

[painted wolf]

Buddhas don't seek influence or recognition from others.
To do so wouldn't be very enlightened would it?

wa:do