I think nobody and nothing will "bring" World peace. It is definitely something that has to originate here with us.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Who Has the truth? Who Will Bring World Peace?
- Thread starter Deeje
- Start date
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
For you as a Christian, where is the "mountain of the Lord"? And, where is the "temple" of the God of Jacob? Then what is meant be "Zion" And, if the word of the Lord is going to come from Jerusalem, why would it be somewhere else? But, the Baha'i headquarters are on Mt. Carmel in Haifa, so they explain how Zion and any reference to the mountain of the Lord and Jerusalem is really Mt. Carmel. The explanation works for them. What do you think? Has God's Christ already returned and established his new religion on Mt. Carmel? Or, is Jesus still going to come back and establish his kingdom in Jerusalem?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
And you did this all while still feeling sick? What is the interpretation of the Mahdi returning with Jesus? And, if Jesus is not interpreted to be Baha'u'llah, then, if The Bab is the Mahdi, who is Baha'u'llah according to the Shia prophecies?The Safavid conversion of Iran from Sunni Islam to Shia Islam took place roughly over the 16th through 18th centuries and made Iran the spiritual bastion of Shia Islam. It also ensured the dominance of the Twelver sect within Shiism over the Zaydiyyah and Ismaili sects – each of whom had previously experienced their own eras of dominance within Shiism. Through their actions, the Safavids reunified Iran as an independent state in 1501 and established Twelver Shiism as the official religion of their empire, marking one of the most important turning points in the history of Islam.
As a direct result, the population of the territory of present-day Iran and neighbouring Azerbaijan were converted to Shia Islam at the same time in history. Both nations still have large Shia majorities, and the Shia percentage of Azerbaijan's population is second only to that in Iran.
A key individual in the conversion (often by force) of Muslim's to Shi'a was Ismail I.
From 1500–2 Ismail I conquered Tabriz in Iran, as well as Armenia, Azerbaijan, and parts of Dagestan (North Caucasus, nowadays part of Russia). He would take most of the next decade to consolidate his control over Iran, where most of the Persian population was still Sunni.
....According to Daniel W. Brown, Isma'il was "the most successful and intolerant Shi'i ruler since the fall of the Fatimids". It appears that he aimed for complete destruction of Sunni Islam, and he largely achieved that goal in the lands over which he ruled. His hatred of the Sunnis knew no bounds, and his persecution of them was ruthless. He required the first three caliphs to be ritually cursed, abolished Sunni Sufi orders, seizing their property, and gave Sunni ulama a choice of conversion, death, or exile. Shi'i scholars were brought in from other regions to take their place.
Safavid conversion of Iran to Shia Islam - Wikipedia
Not suprisingly admisdt this violent Millieu during the 18th century there was a growing sense that Islam had run its sourse and could only be redeemed through the Return of the 12th Imam.
Shaykh Ahmad i(1753–1834) was a prominent 19th-century Muslim theologian and jurist who founded the influential Shaykhí school of Twelver Shiism, which attracted followers from throughout the Persian and Ottoman Empires.
Shaykh Ahmad - Wikipedia
His appointed successor was Sayyid Kazim.
Sayyid Kāẓim was appointed as the successor of Shaykh Ahmad al-Ahsa'i, and led the Shaykhí movement until his death.
On the death of Sayyid Kazim on 31 December 1843, some Shaykhis went on to become Babis, some of whom later became Bahais, It is reported that before dying, instead of appointing a successor, he sent his disciples out to find the Promised One. One of his most noted followers, Mullá Husayn said:
"Our departed teacher insistently exhorted us to forsake our homes, to scatter far and wide, in quest of the promised Beloved... Regarding the features of the Promised One, he told us that He is of a pure lineage, is of illustrious descent, and of the seed of Fatimah. As to His age, He is more than twenty and less than thirty. He is endowed with innate knowledge. He is of medium height, abstains from smoking, and is free from bodily deficiency."
(quoted in Nabil-i-A'zam's The Dawn-Breakers", or "Nabil's Narrative", translated by Shoghi Effendi, p. 57)
In 1844 Mullá Husayn, after meeting the Siyyid `Alí-Muhammad (the Báb) in Shiraz accepted him as the Mahdi.
Kazim Rashti - Wikipedia
Hope that helps
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Why would God leave it up to man to establish peace? The Bible seems to imply that God will establish peace when Jesus returns. How do Baha'is interpret the verses that imply that?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
That's interesting. I've never heard that mentioned before... even when we were discussing Revelation. But, if WWI was the beginning, what is the end of Armageddon? And, how do you put the return of Christ before the Battle of Armageddon? Am I remembering wrong or wasn't the return after the battle? Either way, I know you have an explanation. Hope you're feeling better.
There are two important points here:
1/ Tribulation comes after God warns His people. not before. Examples are:
- Noah warning the people before the great flood came (allegorical story of course).
- Jesus warning the people of the tribulation that would befall Jerusalem and the temple and warning them to flee to Judea (Matthew 24). The discourse was the last recorded in the synoptic gopsels so about 33 AD. The destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans was 70 AD.
- Bahau'llah warns the Kings and Rulers of the world starting during the late 1860s. One of ther repercussions of not heeding Baha'u'llah's advice was WWI or the beginning of Armageddon spoken of in Revelation 16.
Many Christians believe the tribulation will come and 'then' Jesus will Return but thats because the Olivet discourse weaves two narratives together. (a) The tributions that will soon befall both the Jewish peoples (destruction of the temple) and Christians (persecution by non-Christians), (b) Future events with the Return of Christ and associated events both before and after.
2/ Armageddon
I found this paper helpful for understanding the Baha'i perspective of Armageddon.
Catastrophe, Armageddon and Millennium
The following is my adaptation of a few points specifically in regards Armageddon.
On a number of occasions 'Abdu'l-Bahá spoke of Armageddon in connection with the "Great War"' of 1914-1918. In an address delivered at Stanford University in October 1912 he is reported to have stated,
We are on the eve of the battle of Armageddon, referred to in the 16th chapter of Revelation. The time is two years hence, when only a spark will set aflame the whole of Europe. The social unrest in all countries, the growing religious skepticism antecedent to the millennium are already here. Only a spark will set aflame the whole of Europe as is prophesied in the verses of Daniel and in the Book [Rev.] of John.
An Armageddon scenario has continued after world war I. Shoghi Effendi saw world war I as a "terrible conflict, the first stage in a titanic convulsion long predicted by Bahá'u'lláh..." As early as 18 October 1927, he anticipated world war II when he stated that "another deadly encounter", a "cataclysm" that must ultimately hasten "the approaching era of universal and lasting peace" will come about.
In a letter before the outbreak of world war II (dated 5 July 1938), Shoghi Effendi clearly predicting world war II, he wrote that, "The rumblings that must precede the eruption of those forces that must cause 'the limbs of humanity to quake' can already be heard..." Reference was made to biblical terminology when he further stated that '... The time of the end', 'the latter years', as foretold in the Scriptures, are at long last upon us. The Pen of Bahá'u'lláh, the voice of 'Abdu'l-Bahá, have time and again, insistently and in terms unmistakable, warned an unheeding humanity of impending disaster..."
Shoghi Effendi wrote in 1939 at the time of the outbreak of the world war II. This terrible war is referred to in its opening lines as "A tempest, unprecedented in its violence, unpredictable in its course" and "catastrophic in its immediate effects." That Hidden Word mentioning an "unforseen calamity" and a "grievous retribution" was cited in this connection. In a communication of Shoghi Effendi dated 13 December 1941, world war II was clearly identified as the "most great convulsion" prophesied throughout the ages, [The] most great convulsion envisaged by [the] Prophets from Isaiah to Bahá'u'lláh, catastrophic in violence, planetary in range [is] assailing, at long last, [the] predominating nations [of the] Asiatic [and] American continents.
The two world wars do not, in Shoghi Effendi's viewpoint, close the period of apocalyptic "calamity." In a dated 8 January 1949, he reckoned that, in the light of the continuing waywardness of humanity, it was "too late to avert catastrophic trials" and anticipated "still more violent upheaval and agony." Later that same year he stated that "we do not know what form the immediate future will take, anywhere" and mentioned that "great suffering will be experienced."Then also on 21 November 1949, Shoghi Effendi's viewpoint was expressed as follows, "... We have no indication of exactly what nature the [coming] apocalyptic upheaval will be; it might be another war."According to a letter written on his behalf in 1954, he "has never stated how far-reaching the effects of a future war will be, or what other catastrophes may accompany it or follow it." On 19 July 1956, he stated that "... the condition that the world is in is bringing many issues to a head. It would be perhaps impossible to find a nation or people not in a state of crisis today. The materialism, the lack of true religion and the consequent baser forces in human nature which are being released, have brought the whole world to the brink of probably the greatest crisis it has ever faced or will have to face."
Bahá'í scripture, then, has a realistic appraisal of "catastrophe" when it focuses upon the major wars and continuing socio-economic and other disruptions of the 20th century. It recognises various underlying dimensions of "catastrophe"; such as human activities revolving around materialism; racism and excessive nationalism. The decadent state of aspects of contemporary society may be seen to be an aspect of the end-time "catastrophe." Humanity is only now beginning to see itself as an international community in need of a world order and internationally regulated justice. "Lesser peace" secular co-operation among nations and peoples is beginning. Whether or not the many "catastrophes" currently afflicting humanity will precipitate yet another major war is something that cannot be predicted. Bahá'ís are certainly advised not to dwell on such a possibility and remain confident of the bright millennial future of mankind, the coming "most great peace."
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The Bible requires accurate interpretation to be fully understood. The Bible was never fully understood,so nobody knew what time of the end meant until the time of the end, which we have been living in since the coming of the Bab and Baha'u'llah.
According to Daniel 12, the “book” was to be unsealed at the time of the end.
Daniel 12:4 says “But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.”
Many shall run to and fro because they do not understand what the Bible really means; then knowledge will be increased at the time of the end.
That is why Daniel 12:9 says “And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.”
Then Daniel 12:12 says “Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.”
The "book" was intended to be sealed up until the time of the end, until the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days came. The 2,300 years came in 1844 and the book was unsealed. That math is explained in Some Answered Questions, 10: TRADITIONAL PROOFS EXEMPLIFIED FROM THE BOOK OF DANIEL.
We do not have to run to and fro anymore. Unsealing the Book means we can now understand who and what the prophecies in the Bible refer to. Baha’u’llah explained much of the symbolism in the Bible, what words such as clouds, moon, sun, heaven, hell, and satan refer to. He also explained who the Father, the Lord of Hosts, the Comforter and the Spirit of truth were. Abdu’l-Baha, one of Baha’u’llah’s appointed interpreters, went into more detail in explaining certain chapters and verses in the Bible in Some Answered Questions.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
So I guess you have to decide which religion you are going to believe, if any.
So I guess you have to decide which religion you are going to believe, if any.
The Baha'i Faith is the answer, it is just too bad most people have failed to see that.
On my other forum, this atheist keeps saying that God has failed to get His message out so God cannot be infallible. I told him that it is humans who have failed, not God...
“The Word of God hath set the heart of the world afire; how regrettable if ye fail to be enkindled with its flame! Please God, ye will regard this blessed night as the night of unity, will knit your souls together, and resolve to adorn yourselves with the ornament of a goodly and praiseworthy character. Let your principal concern be to rescue the fallen from the slough of impending extinction, and to help him embrace the ancient Faith of God.” Gleanings, p. 316
“O My servants! My holy, My divinely ordained Revelation may be likened unto an ocean in whose depths are concealed innumerable pearls of great price, of surpassing luster. It is the duty of every seeker to bestir himself and strive to attain the shores of this ocean, so that he may, in proportion to the eagerness of his search and the efforts he hath exerted, partake of such benefits as have been pre-ordained in God’s irrevocable and hidden Tablets. If no one be willing to direct his steps towards its shores, if every one should fail to arise and find Him, can such a failure be said to have robbed this ocean of its power or to have lessened, to any degree, its treasures? How vain, how contemptible, are the imaginations which your hearts have devised, and are still devising!” Gleanings, p. 326
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
What are those verses?
I haven't studies Islamic eschatology so my knowledge in this area is a work in progress. Thank you for asking the questions though. Its good to be challenged.
The Bab is the Madhi or trurn of the 12th Imam who disappeared. It probably sounds familiar because John the Baptist was the return of the Prophet Elijah. That means Baha'u'llah is the Return of Christ. The Muslims no doubt believe it will be literally Jesus who returns as many Christians do.
Shias believe that the arrival of the Mahdi will be signalled by the following portents:
- The vast majority of people who profess to be Muslim will be so only in name despite their practice of Islamic rites, and it will be they who will make war with the Mahdi.
- Before his coming will come the red death and the white death, killing two thirds of the world's population. The red death signifies violence and the white death is plague.One third of the world's population will die from the red death and the other third from the white death.
- Several figures will appear: the Al-Harth, Al-Mansur, Shuaib bin Saleh and the Sufyani.
- There will be a great conflict in the land of Syria, until it is destroyed.
- Death and fear will afflict the people of Baghdad and Iraq. A fire will appear in the sky and a redness will cover them.
Mahdi - Wikipedia
The physical attributes certainly match the Bab's. Some of the those hadiths on which these understandings are based are of course unlikely to be literal. Its no doubt an apocalyptic style similar to Daniel, Revelations, and the Olivet discourse.
it would be interesting to examine the actual Hadiths upon which these predictions are based. Another time.
sooda
Veteran Member
It is situated on the southern Judean plateau which at its highest point is 2,500 feet above sea-level. Just 37 miles west of Jerusalem is the Mediterranean Sea, and 22 miles to its east is the lowest point on earth, the Dead Sea. This explains why in John 5:1 Jesus “went up to Jerusalem,” and in the parable of the Good Samaritan, the poor man that fell among thieves was going “down from Jerusalem” (Luke 10:30).
This idea of ascending to Jerusalem does not merely refer to geography though; Jerusalem was the site of the temple of God, therefore a place of spiritual ascent. “Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord?” asks the Psalmist, “or who shall stand in his holy place?” (Psalm 24:3).
I agree that Jesus fulfilled many of the prophecies you mentioned. My point is that He didn't fulfil them all. Some prophecies relate to Jesus, some His return and others both. The list from Judaism were simply some that apply to the returned Christ. Unlike the Jews I believe Jesus was the Jewish messiah.
If my grandfather committed a crime would it be just that I be found guilty of the same crime simply on account ofwhat my grandfather had done. No judge would entertain such nonsense. To imagine that God continues to punish humanity for the fall of Adam six thousand years ago is an example of poor theology. Same deal with the Jews. Of course they broke the covenant many times. Sure they were responsible for having Christ put to death. The consequences were they were dispossessed from their land and God's protection of them as a nation was withdrawn. Not that they were damned for all eternity!
Judasim has moved on from where it was two thousand years ago and so should Christians.
If Jews don't want to become Christians, and I don't see why they would, that is their right.
I accept the JWs suffered under the Nazis but that's not the issue. 95% of Germany was 'Christian' when Hitler was democratically elected. The Nazi movement could never have happened if it had not been for centuries of antisemitism throughout Europe and America. As a result six million Jews (nearly a third of them) lost their lives.
You acknowledge that Christianity has been utterly corrupted yet you condemn Jews for not turning to Christ?
You may want to consider how religion can cause hatred and wars and if your faith is immune from that.
In response to the OP question "Who has the truth?" I think what is meant is do the JWs have the truth or the Baha'is? The Baha'is don't claim to have a monopoly on truth. We believe the Founders of the Great world religions conveyed a message from God to a particular people for a particular time. What Moses, Christ,Muhammad, or Baha'u'llah said at the time was right for a set period. There are of course eternal truths like we should be truthful, loving, fair and kind. All the founders of the Great religions teach such principles. Perhaps another truth is we should be careful when to comes to sex, power and money as becoming overly attached to any of these can cause problems in our lives and take us away from God. On a wider scale nationalism, racism and materialism are all factors that can threaten world peace.
@Deeje may want to continue the conversation or not and that's fine either way. We both have our different theologies and beliefs that are unlikley to change too much despite this discussion. I've learnt a little more about the Jehovah Witnesses, Christianity and history through this thread so its been useful. The Baha'i Faith is unlikely to have any more appeal to a Jehovah Witness than the Jehovah Witnesses have for the Baha'is. Still its good we can openly and respectfully discuss each others beliefs. Thanks again @Deeje for starting the thread.
@Deeje may want to continue the conversation or not and that's fine either way. We both have our different theologies and beliefs that are unlikley to change too much despite this discussion. I've learnt a little more about the Jehovah Witnesses, Christianity and history through this thread so its been useful. The Baha'i Faith is unlikely to have any more appeal to a Jehovah Witness than the Jehovah Witnesses have for the Baha'is. Still its good we can openly and respectfully discuss each others beliefs. Thanks again @Deeje for starting the thread.
RedhorseWoman
Active Member
My belief on this topic is that no one religion encompasses all truth, but that each belief system has some truth. Each belief system meets the spiritual needs of individuals at any particular point in time, but those spiritual needs can and do change, and a person should feel free to seek a religion (or no religion) that meets their spiritual needs. Religion should be something that enriches a person's life and should not be a vehicle to enrich the religion's leaders at the expense of the adherents.
There is a book by Matthew Fox (One River Many Wells) that posits that spirituality is like a river, and off that river are many "wells," each of which contains some truth and a small part of that spirituality, but no one well contains the entire river of truth. I find his ideas quite fascinating and compelling.
One can also dive into the ocean of Gods Word and find many pearls of great price
We can also note that all but a few rivers feed into this ocean, it is a cycle that continues.
Baha'u'llah has named it progressive revelation.
Regards Tony
Its been really valuable having you here. Congratulations on moving beyond the faith you grew up in. It can be extremely difficult for some people to break away and if they do they are rejected by former family and friends. That's clearly been your experience. I have no doubt you are better off well clear of the Jehovah Witnesses.
I grew up attending the Presbyterian Church of New Zealand and it was a relatively positive experience. Like many teenage boys, religion wasn't a priority in life but I felt the need to reconnect spirituality in my early 20s. Soon I experienced Christian fundamentalism, not too different from the Jehovah Witnesses. It was an intensely negative experience at times and really caused me to think and pray much more deeply. The most disturbing belief I had come across was the idea that the Christian fundamentalists had the truth and everyone else was wrong. As a young medical student I had already met many wonderful people of different faiths. I needed to find something that affirmed the truth and light that I had found in other religions, not just Christianity. The outcome of my search was becoming a Baha'i nearly 30 years ago.
Yesterday I attended our cities interfaith council meeting hosted by the Presbyterian Church. It was great to reconnect with the Faith I had grown up with but also appreciate the diversity of faiths represented at our meeting. I talked to a Muslim, Catholic and Jew afterwards. I talked to the Presbyterian Minister and she impressed me by explaining how her role is to assist others find their own theology rather than telling them what's right and wrong.
I think if we do our best to live by our highest values and truths we are on the right path.
Its got nothing to do with God punishing humanity for what Adam did.....it was Adam who took that into his own hands when he disobeyed the only rule there was. God had told him that the penalty for disobedience was death, but Adam ate the fruit and lost his own perfection, becoming genetically altered in some way. This has to be the case because as Paul says in Romans 5:12..."Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned" (NASB)
One man caused the spread of this condition called "sin". Like a genetically inherited disease, it spread to all his offspring and no one could eliminate it but God. Another man, who was the exact equivalent of Adam was needed to undo the damage. That man was Jesus Christ, a perfect specimen needed to balance the scales of justice....offering his perfect life in exchange for the one Adam forfeited for his children.
In effect, he offered to die in our place, thereby releasing us from the curse of sin. It was going to take some time to come into effect, but in the meantime, sin had a permanent basis for forgiveness.
Animal sacrifices were no longer needed, nor was the physical Temple at which they were offered. Jewish worship changed forever when the Romans destroyed their Temple after an horrendous siege, but history should have told them that the Temple could not be destroyed unless God permitted it as a punishment to them. No command has ever come from God to rebuild the Temple a third time, therefore what the Jews have today is not the worship that God established through Moses at Mt Sinai. He was instructed to build the Tabernacle, and he was the mediator of the Old Covenant.
Jesus was the mediator of the New Covenant and anyone not taken into that covenant was no longer part of God's nation or true worship.
Well, from my perspective, they really didn't move on at all. They are still stuck in their rituals and adherence to the Talmud...still bound to the Old Covenant that hasn't been in force for nearly 2000 years.
Since God does not change, then it stands to reason that beliefs should not change either.....unless those beliefs were false to begin with. Jesus did not agree with the Pharisees' interpretation of scripture, calling it "leaven" or something adulterated.
I see Christendom as a mirror image of Judaism....both went off the rails due to the adoption of false beliefs and misinterpretations of the scriptures. These teachings crept in slowly by following "the traditions of men", introduced over time, that were allowed to overshadow scripture and alter perceptions of important details of prophesy.
I have never said anyone should become anything but what they wish to be. The Bible says that we will all account to the same God ultimately, but on what basis?
In his "sign" of "the conclusion of the present system of things", Jesus said something that I believe is significant for all of us....
Matthew 24:14 is part of this sign of Jesus' "presence" as King in a world alienated from his God and Father.
He said....
"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come." (NASB) Since Matthew 24 is the sign of Jesus second appearance and the conclusion of the present age, we have to ask who is preaching this message in all the world that people are treating like the days of Noah? (Matthew 24:37-39) What happened to the world of Noah's time?
What is a testimony? It is a witness given by Christ's disciples so that people have a basis for God's judgment of them. A testimony is what witnesses in a trial give to either convict or to exonerate a person brought before the court. This "testimony" is about God's Kingdom, letting the whole world know what God is about to introduce into the world....ready of not.
"The end" is 'the end of this world'....life as we know it will no longer exist and a new arrangement of God's making will replace it. (Daniel 2:44) The warning included a parallel with Noah's day as Jesus said...."For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be."
In some translations it say that "they did not know until the flood came...." This word "know" according to Strongs means....
"to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel".
Noah preached to that generation for the entire time that he was constructing the ark...but no one took any notice....they did not "come to know" about God's intentions until it was too late.
Just like today....the message is preached in all the world, but because the messengers are not people of any account, no one listens. But just as some listened to Jesus, so some will listen to us. (John 15:18-21)
Whoa!.... Germany was 95% Christian under Hitler?
Do these look like Christians to you?
No, my friend...these were fake Christians. The real Christians were in the camps standing firm against the Nazi regime. Jesus' disciples were told that "friendship with the world is enmity with God" (James 4:4) A few brave Catholics defied the Nazis, but apparently not the church hierarchy. Raising their hand to "heil Hitler" was the equivalent to "hail Caesar" in Rome....supporting a regime that went against all that Jesus taught. (John 17:16)
His disciples were to be separate from that world.
All religion that is outside of what Jesus taught, is thoroughly corrupted because as John said...."We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." (1 John 5:19)
"For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome, 4 because everyone who has been born from God conquers the world. And this is the conquest that has conquered the world, our faith.
5 Who can conquer the world? Is it not the one who has faith that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 John 5:3-5)
Conquering this world is not done with weapons but with faith.That faith has to be in Jesus....no one else.
There is no more divisive element in this world than religion....which is why the Revelation says it will be the first to go. Jehovah's people have never been part of the conflicts of their nations, or part of its false religion. (2 Corinthians 6:14-18) We have obeyed Christ and 'loved our 'enemies' in the sense of not hating them or doing harm to them.
Peace on this earth can never be achieved by waiting for humans to love their neighbors. The peace that man will seek will be at the expense of freedom. "Big Brother" is already here ready to wield his big stick and force everyone to follow his rules. Chaos will result and God will be forced to step in. That is how we understand the Bible's message. You may choose to interpret things differently.
We understand the story of Adam and Eve very differently. For Baha'is it is an allegorical story with many intrinsic spiritual meanings for those with eyes to see. Paul in Romans 5 is drawing on the traditions of Judaism to explain the changed nature of the Christians relationship with God in moving from the Covenant of Moses to that of Christ. Christians have read too much into the words and devised the man made doctrine of the original sin based on the fall of Adam.
The Doctrine of Original Sin
Looks like you share more in common with the Catholic church that you would like to admit!
God punished all of humanity because a talking serpent spoke to Eve and offered her an apple which she accepted and convinved Adam to do the same thus disobeying God. it was only when Christ came along that the blemish of this orginal sin could be removed!? So much for coming up with a coherent theology based on what Christ taught. So much for discarding man made doctrines to arrive at a purified, original Christianity. An entire chapter could be devoted to the problems with this one man made doctrine alone.
The destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple sent a clear message. The nature of the Jews relationship with God had changed. The Jews were once again exiled from the land God had promised them. However the Covenants God made with the Jewish people were Eternal. It was not the first time the Jews had been exiled. They had been exiled under the Assyrians, Babylonians, and then Persians until Jerusalem and the Temple was restored due to a decree by the Persian Emperors Cyrus in 457 BC.
Another part of the story missed out is the Jewish exile ended as did the Babylonian exile. I don't know if you realise there is now a small country called Israel on the map since 1948...
Further Jesus spoke of the Jewish exile and the circumstances under which it would come to an end during His final Sermon near the Mount of Olives.
As we know in Luke 21:24 Jesus speaks of future events, including the destruction of Jerusalem and His return. He says:
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
A similar phrase is found in Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
However the next part is astonishing. In Romans 11:26-27 we have:
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
So it looks to me that God hasn't turned His back on the Jews after all and Paul is reminding us God promised to take away the sins of the Jewish peoples. His Covenant with them is Eternal and He will never abandon them. God always keeps His promises.
So what are the signs that will accompany the time of the Gentiles coming to an end? Going back to Luke 21
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
So the Jewish exile ending is accompnied by certain signs in the celestial realm along with the Return of Christ.
But hold on a minute....The Jewish exile has ended and the Jews have returned to their homeland! How can that be as the return of Christ appears to precede or come before the end of the Jewish exile?
The answer of course is Christ has returned in the Glory of the Father and His return has heralded by the advent of the Baha'i faith in 1844 as predicted by William Miller. The process of the Jews returning to their homeland and the time of the Gentiles ending was already well advanced. In 1844 there was even the signing of the Edict of toleration betwen the Ottoman Empire and European powers allowing greater religious freedoms in Palestine.
Edict of Toleration 1844 - Wikipedia
An essential theme of Romans 11 is that, when the Jewish people rejected Christ, they were temporarily cut off from some of the blessings of their relationship with God. As a result, the gospel (and latter) the Quran were given to the Gentiles. This partial hardening of heart for Israel doesn’t prevent individual Jews from being saved, but it prevented the nation from accepting Christ as Messiah until His plans were finished. So when the time is right, the relationship between God and the entire nation of Israel will be fully restored. One aspect of the unfolding relationship has been the ending the times of the Gentiles by the restoration of the nation of israel.
The Prophet Isaiah 17:7 spoke of the future:
At that day shall a man look to his Maker, and his eyes shall have respect to the Holy One of Israel.
and again Isaiah 62:11-12
Behold, the Lord hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.
And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the Lord: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.
God loves the Jews, always has and will restore the Jewish nation along with her peoples to her former Glory and more.