Who here is enlightened?

[LuisDantas]

ok, i take my words back (actually i edited my first post and added 'generally' before you replied).

Yes, buddha spoke and taught people, but if Gautama Buddha were a member in this forum, i dont think he would come and claim about his enlightenment in this thread. The same for enlightened people in this forum.

So true.

 

[Penumbra]

Are you speaking of christianity

Not particularly.

There some New Age or mystic beliefs that incorporate some Christian concepts ("the kingdom of god is within you" as an example), but the bulk of Abrahamic believers don't really have much of an enlightenment concept in their worldview.

I suppose if someone proposes that have a two way communication channel with Jesus or another deity then that can count here.

 

[Madhuri]

In your worldview, Moksha is the ideal goal, correct? If that is the case, what leads you to not dedicate yourself to the path of it?

Because of my attachments to material life.

 

[Penumbra]

ok, i take my words back (actually i edited my first post and added 'generally' before you replied).

Yes, buddha spoke and taught people, but if Gautama Buddha were a member in this forum, i dont think he would come and claim about his enlightenment in this thread. The same for enlightened people in this forum.

The Buddha seemed to be pretty open about what he considered himself to be.

Because of my attachments to material life.

That's understandable.

But I guess the way I see it, if you
a) Believe moksha is a genuine reality.
b) Determine that if you were on an enlightenment path, you would do X.
c) Directly realize that you have attachments to material life.

Then they could be summed together and the path would be changed to X rather quickly. I find it interesting that a person would believe in Moksha, identify that they have an attachment to material life, but then consciously remain in that attachment.

 

[Desert Snake]

Then they could be summed together and the path would be changed to X rather quickly. I find it interesting that a person would believe in Moksha, identify that they have an attachment to material life, but then consciously remain in that attachment.

That's because they would have to give up that attachment.

 

[LuisDantas]

The Buddha seemed to be pretty open about what he considered himself to be.

We don't even know for certain that he was an actual person, though. In any case, he wrote nothing, and seemed to let his wisdom flow spontaneously according to whoever he was talking to.

Maybe he would be capable of showing a lot of wisdom in open forum threads, who knows? But it seems to me that if the Tipitaka may be misused, and I'm sure we all agree that so can forum posts, there is no way to spare forum posts from even a true Buddha from being passible of misuse either.

 

[Penumbra]

That's because they would have to give up that attachment.

For something that, in that worldview, is much better.

 

[LuisDantas]

Having a worldview and fully accepting and being at ease with its logical conclusions are really not quite the same thing, Penumbra.

 

[Desert Snake]

For something that, in that worldview, is much better.

True, and I see your reasoning, but as I don't follow that doctrine, nor have I read much Buddhist literature, I won't comment further

 

[Madhuri]

But I guess the way I see it, if you
a) Believe moksha is a genuine reality.
b) Determine that if you were on an enlightenment path, you would do X.
c) Directly realize that you have attachments to material life.

Then they could be summed together and the path would be changed to X rather quickly. I find it interesting that a person would believe in Moksha, identify that they have an attachment to material life, but then consciously remain in that attachment.

Maybe, if I felt a desperate need to get out of this life.
I don't think I can straight up give up my desires. I'm too afraid to leave my family, my friends, my career path, my hobbies ect.
So I'm taking the slower path, knowing that when I'm ready I can take the leap at any time.

My view is that life prepares us gradually for the time when we are ready to give up material attachments. I don't think we can artificially make ourselves unattached. And I don't think that we are expected to (by God). There's a reason we're here in the first place, and that reason does not include become immediately disassociated with this place.

So long story short, though ideally I'd love to be ready to take the leap, I really do not feel ready to let go of my attachments. I need to experience life and get the realisations that will lead to that inevitable unattachment.

 

[Penumbra]

We don't even know for certain that he was an actual person, though. In any case, he wrote nothing, and seemed to let his wisdom flow spontaneously according to whoever he was talking to.

Maybe he would be capable of showing a lot of wisdom in open forum threads, who knows? But it seems to me that if the Tipitaka may be misused, and I'm sure we all agree that so can forum posts, there is no way to spare forum posts from even a true Buddha from being passible of misuse either.

The character of Socrates didn't want to write anything down and didn't like the medium.

The Buddha may or may not have been a real person; I'm talking about the character.

Like I said, people can use the PM function. And as I and other people have pointed out, there are people that are claimed to be enlightened or have followers that claim them to be enlightened that do use electronic media or write books.

Fearing content to be misused would be like not wanting to write a book since it'll inevitably get some 1-star reviews on Amazon.

 

[Penumbra]

Maybe, if I felt a desperate need to get out of this life.
I don't think I can straight up give up my desires. I'm too afraid to leave my family, my friends, my career path, my hobbies ect.
So I'm taking the slower path, knowing that when I'm ready I can take the leap at any time.

My view is that life prepares us gradually for the time when we are ready to give up material attachments. I don't think we can artificially make ourselves unattached. And I don't think that we are expected to (by God). There's a reason we're here in the first place, and that reason does not include become immediately disassociated with this place.

So long story short, though ideally I'd love to be ready to take the leap, I really do not feel ready to let go of my attachments. I need to experience life and get the realisations that will lead to that inevitable unattachment.

Ok, thank you for sharing that.

No pressure, just curious.

 

[LuisDantas]

I mostly agree, but:

Fearing content to be misused would be like not wanting to write a book since it'll inevitably get some 1-star reviews on Amazon.

More like fearing that people will read the book and become disturbed or at least lose their time because it does not suit them well.

 

[nameless]

The Buddha seemed to be pretty open about what he considered himself to be

how can we be sure about that? i strongly believe he was not open enough when he said he is enlightened, he said so for the sake of the disciples.

 

[atanu]

(Serious question.)

Use whatever word is applicable in your worldview, be it enlightenment, moksha, nibbana, one with the universe, etc. I'll use 'enlightenment' for the rest of this post but mentally substitute in your own word as you read it.

Does anyone on this forum claim to be enlightened? If so, please post here so we can talk. I'd like to see who here claims to have reached enlightenment.

The reason I ask is, many people talk about what enlightenment is, how to get there, what it's like, that it is a true concept, etc.

So if you consider yourself enlightened, I invite you to post here. Perhaps you could start by explaining what enlightenment is to you, how you achieved it, how you know you achieved it, and what it is like.

Penumbra.

What if the story that we are un-enlightened and that we will be some-day enlightened, like a few sages already are, is really a story only?

 

[Madhuri]

Ok, thank you for sharing that.

No pressure, just curious.

It's a good question, P. It's one I've pondered previously but I don't think the answer is necessarily simple.

From a Hindu perspective at least, there are various factors influencing how we strive spiritually.

One includes the belief in reincarnation. It means we have eternity to decide when to get over wanting to be in the material reality.

Another is the belief that life is something we are meant to experience fully, to learn from and grow. This is partly why Krishna instructs Arjuna in the BG that action is better than inaction, and that doing his duty to the kingdom as a warrior is more important in that moment than abandoning his life to live in spiritual seclusion.

Another factor is that enlightenment can also come to a person who lives a normal life, with family and distractions. So most people do take this option. I think it's a lot harder this way though, for obvious reasons.

 

[Penumbra]

I mostly agree, but:

More like fearing that people will read the book and become disturbed or at least lose their time because it does not suit them well.

I think if they're a good writer, then their work will do more good than harm.

More broadly, here's the point. There are many people on this forum that talk about what enlightenment is and how to achieve it. Many people talk as a position of a teacher about truth.

This thread gives people an opportunity to identify themselves as enlightened if they wish to do so. Either privately or publicly, either way is fine with me. So far, one person here in this thread proposes to be enlightened.

It helps sort between people who talk about enlightenment but state that they are not enlightened (which can be honest and noble; there's no attacks on them), and people who talk about enlightenment while proposing themselves to be enlightened (to which this thread can serve as a place to ask them questions, or as a calling card to send me a PM if they want).

 

[Penumbra]

how can we be sure about that? i strongly believe he was not open enough when he said he is enlightened, he said so for the sake of the disciples.

The stories about him propose as fact that he was enlightened under the Bodhi tree. It's one of the most fundamental concepts of Buddhism; that Gautama was enlightened and that his method works.

 

[Penumbra]

Penumbra.

What if the story that we are un-enlightened and that we will be some-day enlightened, like a few sages already are, is really a story only?

So in your worldview is everyone enlightened?

 

[Desert Snake]

I don't use the term "enlightened", never have, so i'm still not clear on what that definition entails to you.