Who Invented The Trinity ?

[Katzpur]

I John 5:7 states it quite plainly. It is standard doctrine.

1 John 5:7 states that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are "one." It does not state, plainly or otherwise, the way in which they are one. It took the philosophies of men to do that. The Nicene Creed is nothing more than an extrapolation of what the Bible actually teaches. This is only "standard doctrine" if you believe it. Pesonally, I don't.

 

[Katzpur]

Yes, I am familiar with, and accept the Nicene Creed. Again, the doctrines established therein were from careful study of the holy scripture, so what is the big deal?

Careful study of the holy scripture? I don't think so! Would you care to provide just a tiny shred of evidence to support that statement? Either you don't have much background in how the Nicene Creed came to be or else you are assuming that the rest of us don't.

 

[john313]

i'm not sure who came up with a trinty, but i am aware that celtic, hindu and other traditions also speak of a trinty

the hindu triad (trimurti) is brahma, vishnu, and shiva. this existed long before the gospels of the bible were written. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimurti the story is basically the same, just with different names.

The only other reference in the Bible to a Trinity can be found in the Epistle of I John 5:7. Biblical scholars of today, however, have admitted that the phrase "... there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one" is definitely a "later addition" to Biblical text, and it is not found in any of today's versions of the Bible.

i heard that somewhere else, but i did not know if it was true. even if the verse is valid, the gospels also say that "i and the disciples are one." that would make them part of the "trinity" since Jesus is the Word.

 

[michel]

Trinity in the Bible

References in the Bible to a Trinity of divine beings are vague, at best.

In Matthew 28:19, we find Jesus telling his disciples to go out and preach to all nations. While this "Great Commission" does make mention of the three persons who later become components of the Trinity, the phrase "...baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" is quite clearly an addition to Biblical text--that is, not the actual words of Jesus-- as can be seen by two factors:

1) baptism in the early Church, as discussed by Paul in his letters, was done only in the name of Jesus; and

2) the "Great Commission" was found in the first gospel written, that of Mark, bears no mention of Father, Son and/or Holy Ghost--see Mark 16:15.

The only other reference in the Bible to a Trinity can be found in the Epistle of I John 5:7. Biblical scholars of today, however, have admitted that the phrase "... there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one" is definitely a "later addition" to Biblical text, and it is not found in any of today's versions of the Bible.

It can, therefore, be seen that the concept of a Trinity of divine beings was not an idea put forth by Jesus or any other prophet of God. This doctrine, now subscribed to by Christians all over the world, is entirely man-made in origin.


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I can't help but have a giggle when I see the title of this thread..........I have visions of Scientists, houddled around a sterile compartment, gloved hand reaching inside, trying to invent the trinity................:biglaugh:

They souldn't bother, God did it, as Scott so aptly put is. (but created rather than invent, methinks)

 

[spacemonkey]

If you want to get technical, the concept of a Holy Trinity stems from Hinduism's Trimurti. The Trimurti consists of Brahma (the Creator or "Father"), Vishnu (the Preserver or "Son") , and Shiva (the Pure or "Holy Spirit").

 

[spacemonkey]

Oops, that was already posted, by bad.

 

[joeboonda]

You all feel free to believe what you want, I believe in the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and that these three are one, call them a trinity or a pretzel, whatever gets the point across, deny the trinity if you want, accept it if you want, I don't really care, just telling you I believe in it, that's all, no big deal.

 

[michel]

You all feel free to believe what you want, I believe in the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and that these three are one, call them a trinity or a pretzel, whatever gets the point across, deny the trinity if you want, accept it if you want, I don't really care, just telling you I believe in it, that's all, no big deal.

Wow Joeboonda, I believe in the trinity, but I have never heard 'The Word' used; is that common ? As far as I am concerned, I always believed the Trinity to be The Father, The son, and the Holy Ghost.

Perhaps you call Jesus Christ 'The Word' because part of his 'function' in being incarnate was to spread the Word ?

 

[joeboonda]

Wow Joeboonda, I believe in the trinity, but I have never heard 'The Word' used; is that common ? As far as I am concerned, I always believed the Trinity to be The Father, The son, and the Holy Ghost.

Perhaps you call Jesus Christ 'The Word' because part of his 'function' in being incarnate was to spread the Word ?

I use the King James Version that's probably why.

I John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one.

John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Genesis 1:1,3 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And GOD SAID, Let ther be light; and there was light.

Colossians 1:13-17 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son; In whom we have redemtion through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins; Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature; For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or poweres; all things were created by him, and for him; And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Anyway, Jesus is the Word, we have forgiveness of sins THROUGH HIS BLOOD. Check this out. Acts 20:28 says ...feed the church of GOD which he hath purchased with HIS OWN blood. God's church was purchased by God's blood, therefore Christ is God, as it was Christ that shed his blood. There are so many verses...but they all connect Christ and God together, so I believe in the Deity of Christ and the Trinity, and that Christ is in heaven with God, but the Holy Spirit takes up residence in our hearts the moment we first believe, thus the phrase, I have Jesus in my heart. These 3 are one, with different attributes and such, but too me at least, they are the three in one. I know you believe that, was just rambling. PEACE!

 

[jonny]

You all feel free to believe what you want, I believe in the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and that these three are one, call them a trinity or a pretzel, whatever gets the point across, deny the trinity if you want, accept it if you want, I don't really care, just telling you I believe in it, that's all, no big deal.

Hi joe,

This debate doesn't regard what you believe or don't believe. I respect your right to believe in the trinity and understand why you believe that way. This debate is on who invented the concept of the trinity (whether or not test tubes were involved is an entirely different debate). It is not clearly taught in the bible, which is why the creeds were necessary in the first place.

 

[Quiddity]

You'd think that God would have wanted such an important concept included in the book. I stand by my beliefs that the concept of the trinity came from Greek philosphers and not the bible.

Good point. Thank God we a Church to guide us...
You would think that either early church writings or the bible would have clearly spelled out that some fellow Joseph Smith was going to restore the true Church. Quite easy to note, don't you think? The Trinity on the other hand is a matter of highly abstract, difficult philosophy. Which one to do you think is easier to note?

~Victor

 

[jonny]

Good point. Thank God we a Church to guide us...
You would think that either early church writings or the bible would have clearly spelled out that some fellow Joseph Smith was going to restore the true Church. Quite easy to note, don't you think? The Trinity on the other hand is a matter of highly abstract, difficult philosophy. Which one to do you think is easier to note?

~Victor

Now Victor,

Do you really believe that the Catholic church would have included information detailing the restoration of the church in its scriptures?

 

[Quiddity]

Now Victor,

Do you really believe that the Catholic church would have included information detailing the restoration of the church in its scriptures?

No details. Just one name would make a world of difference. Besides you forgot about the Bible.

~Victor

 

[nutshell]

No details. Just one name would make a world of difference. Besides you forgot about the Bible.

~Victor

Well, in Ezekial, there is the prophesy of the Book of Mormon, but of course you'll have a different interpretation. That's what it all comes down to: interpretations. To an LDS there are plenty of references to the apostacy and restoration while to a Catholic there are none. One can only know the truth through revelation.

By they way, here are the verses I was referring to from Ezekial. 37:15-17: " 15¶ The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,

16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick•, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick• of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one• in thine hand."

The Bible is the stick of Judah and the Book of Mormon is the stick of Ephraim.

 

[Quiddity]

Well, in Ezekial, there is the prophesy of the Book of Mormon, but of course you'll have a different interpretation. That's what it all comes down to: interpretations. To an LDS there are plenty of references to the apostacy and restoration while to a Catholic there are none. One can only know the truth through revelation.

By they way, here are the verses I was referring to from Ezekial. 37:15-17: " 15¶ The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,

16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick•, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick• of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one• in thine hand."

The Bible is the stick of Judah and the Book of Mormon is the stick of Ephraim.

Your right. Interpretation is everything. One would think God would of thought of a solution for us through all time..

~Victor

 

[jonny]

Your right. Interpretation is everything. One would think God would of thought of a solution for us through all time..

~Victor

Yeah. It would have been cool if he'd sent another prophet to sort everything out before his second coming, but I digress.

 

[Quiddity]

Yeah. It would have been cool if he'd sent another prophet to sort everything out before his second coming, but I digress.

As I said "a solution for us through all time". A prophet won't accomplish that.

~Victor

 

[nutshell]

As I said "a solution for us through all time". A prophet won't accomplish that.

~Victor

Then what do you think will accomplish that\\?

 

[Quiddity]

Then what do you think will accomplish that\\?

An authoritative system that defines and interprets what is and what isn't. That no matter what it faces, truth will come out of it.
Established by Christ himself.

Thanks for asking.

~Victor

 

[nutshell]

An authoritative system that defines and interprets what is and what isn't. That no matter what it faces, truth will come out of it.
Established by Christ himself.

Thanks for asking.

~Victor

Gee, I believe in the same system, established by Christ and run by his prophet.