Who is God ? or what are God's attributes ?

[loverOfTruth]

I don't like to put subjective concepts onto God, nor would I use writings of man as evidence to what God is like.

I don't either. Who can be better than God to describe who He is, right ? That's why I quoted the verses directly from the Qur'an which according to Muslims are Verbatim word of God (not even Prophet Muhammad's(pbuh) statements are in it) as revealed to Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) through angel Gabriel and it has been preserved by the muslims word for word ever since without any alteration whatsoever.

 

[Madhuri]

According to wikipedia, " Idolatry is a pejorative term for the worship of an idol, a physical object such as a cult image, as a god,[1] or practices believed to verge on worship, such as giving undue honour and regard to created forms other than God.[2] "

He isn't using a Wikipedia definition. He is using a philosophical definition explained in detail by all Abrahamic faiths that goes much further than statues.

 

[Madhuri]

Now let's take the following 4 attributes of God: eternal, cannot be created, cannot be destroyed, nothing comparable to Him. If you create a picture or idol of God, none of those attributes hold true anymore. However, even if you call God with any specific name, all of those attribute still hold true.

We're not idiots, thank you. Nobody thinks the picture is God itself. Nobody thinks the picture was never created or can't be destroyed. Are you being serious with this argument??

 

[loverOfTruth]

We're not idiots, thank you. Nobody thinks the picture is God itself. Nobody thinks the picture was never created or can't be destroyed. Are you being serious with this argument??

What I mean is "giving undue honour and regard to created forms other than God".

 

[K.Venugopal]

Dear loverOfTruth, Everything outside of you is an object to you, is it not? Are you Allah? No. Is Allah outside you? Yes. So what is Allah to you? An object. So you are worshiping an object and you qualify to be called an idol-worshiper.

 

[loverOfTruth]

Dear loverOfTruth, Everything outside of you is an object to you, is it not? Are you Allah? No. Is Allah outside you? Yes. So what is Allah to you? An object. So you are worshiping an object and you qualify to be called an idol-worshiper.

That is incorrect. We do not think of God as an object at all. Only tangible things are object. And even if you are talking in reference to the definition of Idolatry that I provided, it says 'an idol, a physical object'. And we do not worship any physical object. We worship the Creator alone, and He is not a physical object. So you can call me a God-worshiper which is what I am.

 

[K.Venugopal]

That is incorrect. We do not think of God as an object at all. Only tangible things are object. And even if you are talking in reference to the definition of Idolatry that I provided, it says 'an idol, a physical object'. And we do not worship any physical object. We worship the Creator alone, and He is not a physical object. So you can call me a God-worshiper which is what I am.

You may not think of Allah as an object but the very fact that you think of Him at all makes Him an object in relation to yourself. Please note that objects need not be tangible. Anything intelligible or perceptible by the mind is also an object to the mind. Since Allah is intelligible and perceptible to you, is He not an object in relation to you? Therefore if you worship Allah, you are certainly worshiping an idol.

 

[loverOfTruth]

You may not think of Allah as an object but the very fact that you think of Him at all makes Him an object in relation to yourself. Please note that objects need not be tangible. Anything intelligible or perceptible by the mind is also an object to the mind. Since Allah is intelligible and perceptible to you, is He not an object in relation to you? Therefore if you worship Allah, you are certainly worshiping an idol.

You are missing the point. Idol does not equate Allah(God). Idol is a physical object and God is not a physical object, regardless of what Object is or is not.

 

[K.Venugopal]

You are missing the point. Idol does not equate Allah(God). Idol is a physical object and God is not a physical object, regardless of what Object is or is not.

You've missed the point. God may not be a physical object. But your considering Him separate from you makes Him an object in relation to you and your worshiping Him makes it idol-worship.

In fact, all worship is idol worship. Only when we discover that God is not outside us but is what we are in essence would idol-worship end. Islam, unfortunately, has no clue about this possibility.

 

[Reptillian]

Personally, I'd say God is indifferent with an ironic sense of humor.

 

[loverOfTruth]

You've missed the point. God may not be a physical object. But your considering Him separate from you makes Him an object in relation to you and your worshiping Him makes it idol-worship.

If God is not a Physical Object and the fact that Idol worship is a worship of Physical Object - God Worship is not Idol Worship.

In fact, all worship is idol worship. Only when we discover that God is not outside us but is what we are in essence would idol-worship end. Islam, unfortunately, has no clue about this possibility.

[/QUOTE]
Yeah, then you start worshiping yourself and make yourself a God. What a genius idea ;-).

 

[Pegg]

I thought you believe Jesus(pbuh) to be the God/son of God. I did not see anything similar to that effect in your statements/attributes related to God.

no, we dont believe Jesus is God.

Jesus is a son of God....he said he came down from heaven to do Gods will on earth. Originally he was an angel of God.

We are one of the few christian churches who do not believe Jesus is God. We worship the Hebrew God Yahweh only. And we recognize Jesus as the Messiah...the one God sent to be the savior of mankind.

 

[singhnee]

God is formless but all forms come from him, shapeless still all shapes come from him, has countless attributes and qualities to describe him still no quality great enough to describe him as he is the greatest of the greatest. No one can describe him complete even if he/she keep saying a new name everysecond for forever.

Strongly agree. However, as soon as you draw a picture(as you have done above) or create a statue depicting God - the above statement doesn't seem true anymore, does it ? You can both create or destroy both as per your imagination. God is so great and so powerful and so majestic that He is truly beyond our comprehension and He is unlike anything you can compare with.

 

[loverOfTruth]

no, we dont believe Jesus is God.

Jesus is a son of God....he said he came down from heaven to do Gods will on earth. Originally he was an angel of God.

We are one of the few christian churches who do not believe Jesus is God. We worship the Hebrew God Yahweh only. And we recognize Jesus as the Messiah...the one God sent to be the savior of mankind.

But then you do believe that one of the attributes of God is more close to the humans like 'having a child - son or daughter', right ? That kind of restricts the greatness of God, don't you think ? To me, He is nothing like His creation.

And why would God all of a sudden need to come up with a Son where as He had been sending Messengers/Prophets from the beginning of mankind ?

 

[Madhuri]

What I mean is "giving undue honour and regard to created forms other than God".

What is 'undue regard'? Why is an artist's expression of their vision of God 'undue regard'?

 

[Madhuri]

Yeah, then you start worshiping yourself and make yourself a God. What a genius idea ;-).

The funny thing is that Hindus have a well developed understanding of the concept that God is literally everywhere and in everything, something that your religion says also btw, that we don't end up worshiping ourselves.

 

[Mehr Licht]

God = Father, Son , and Holy Spirit
Godhead, The Gottheit of Meister Eckhart or Ungrund of Jacob Boeheme. <- Not much you can legitimately say about that.

 

[loverOfTruth]

God = Father, Son , and Holy Spirit
Godhead, The Gottheit of Meister Eckhart or Ungrund of Jacob Boeheme. <- Not much you can legitimately say about that.

So which is the Creator?

 

[Madhuri]

LoverofTruth, when you worship Allah, what do you conceptualise?

 

[K.Venugopal]

If God is not a Physical Object and the fact that Idol worship is a worship of Physical Object - God Worship is not Idol Worship.

The very fact that you worship God reduces God to a physical object. There is no harm in beginning this way. But if we are to progress and discover the truth that God is not limited, we have to discover there is no subject-object separation &#8211; that we are not separate from God. Till we achieve this, we are idol worshippers. When we discover we are not separate from God, worship becomes redundant &#8211; a possibility not envisaged in Islam but is the very goal of Hinduism.

Yeah, then you start worshiping yourself and make yourself a God. What a genius idea ;-).

Worship is required only if God is separate from the worshipper. When the worshipper realises God is not separate from him, then worship becomes superfluous.