Who is Satan? Or what does Satan represent to you?

[The_Fisher_King]

Thanks for the reply. So it's merely what we call a unverified personal gnosis.
Would be helpful if you'd mention it if something you say is based only on rather subjective/personal sources as your deity having told you so. Else people might consider it to be a historical fact that Loki would be associated with Venus, and not "just" a modern view.

Very often on this forum people make statements from their own personal beliefs (let's face it, everyone's personal beliefs today are modern views) as if they were facts. If people consider things I say to be historical facts without investigating things for themselves, that is on them, not me.

The figure of Loki, their origins and their associations with this or that celestial or earthly entity are much debated. There is certainly no definitive source that says Loki is or is associated with Sirius. In my opinion (just for you, well not just for you ), Loki's equivalents in 'ancient' continental Celtic tradition are Loucetios and Lugus, hence Lugh in old Irish tradition and Lleu Llaw Gyffes in old Welsh tradition. Now, there is some discussion of the extent to which all of these figures are or are not related, and the extent to which they are associated with lightning or in Lugh's case in particular, the sun. I believe they are all names for the same figure that is called Lucifer in Latin, who is the planet Venus (who for me is a powerful force that can assume human form, and is one of The God/dess' greatest Servants). Freyja and Frigg are also names for the planet Venus in Norse tradition (Norse tradition has taken on figures from various other traditions and incorporated them into its own in one way or another). All very different from Satan (who also goes by many names in the different traditions of the world, Ymir being one of them in Norse tradition).

 

[loverofhumanity]

In the Baha'i Faith Satan does not exist as an entity and is described as the ego, lower nature of man, and the whisperings of self or the insistent self. We do not believe in monsters, ghosts or things like that. We are not born with sin either.

 

[Liu]

Very often on this forum people make statements from their own personal beliefs (let's face it, everyone's personal beliefs today are modern views) as if they were facts. If people consider things I say to be historical facts without investigating things for themselves, that is on them, not me.

The figure of Loki, their origins and their associations with this or that celestial or earthly entity are much debated. There is certainly no definitive source that says Loki is or is associated with Sirius. In my opinion (just for you, well not just for you ), Loki's equivalents in 'ancient' continental Celtic tradition are Loucetios and Lugus, hence Lugh in old Irish tradition and Lleu Llaw Gyffes in old Welsh tradition. Now, there is some discussion of the extent to which all of these figures are or are not related, and the extent to which they are associated with lightning or in Lugh's case in particular, the sun. I believe they are all names for the same figure that is called Lucifer in Latin, who is the planet Venus (who for me is a powerful force that can assume human form, and is one of The God/dess' greatest Servants). Freyja and Frigg are also names for the planet Venus in Norse tradition (Norse tradition has taken on figures from various other traditions and incorporated them into its own in one way or another). All very different from Satan (who also goes by many names in the different traditions of the world, Ymir being one of them in Norse tradition).

Sorry for replying so late, I kinda forgot about it.
And thanks for the explanation - you are right that such is not uncommon here. My main issue with your comment was however that you listed Loki together with Lucifer and Inanna, for both of whom their relation to Venus is pretty much common knowledge. Thereby your post seemed to imply that Loki's connection to it was built on the same kind of historical foundation, which prove to be wrong.

Regarding Loki and Sirius, I don't know when that term was first used, but as far as I know, in Icelandic the name for Sirius is Loka Brenna, i.e. Loki's Torch. That seems to me a rather reliable argument for a historical association of Loki to that star.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

And thanks for the explanation - you are right that such is not uncommon here. My main issue with your comment was however that you listed Loki together with Lucifer and Inanna, for both of whom their relation to Venus is pretty much common knowledge. Thereby your post seemed to imply that Loki's connection to it was built on the same kind of historical foundation, which prove to be wrong.

No worries - thank you for your explanation of where you were coming from!

If you want some historical foundations, Loucetios' name, like Lucifer, means the light-bringer, the shining one. Loucetios is closely associated with Nemetona, she of the sacred grove. Nemetona has been described as the eponymous deity of the Nemetes, a Germanic or Celto-Germanic tribe living along the Rhine. Similarly, Loki is closely associated with Angrboda, who dwells in the iron-wood (by Loki, she is said to be the mother of Fenrir at least and according to the Prose Edda also Hel and Jormungandr).

Loki's relationship with Odin has certain parallels to Lugh's relationship to Balor and Lleu Llaw Gyffes' relationship to Gwydion (indeed, Gwydion's name is similar to Odin).

Regarding Loki and Sirius, I don't know when that term was first used, but as far as I know, in Icelandic the name for Sirius is Loka Brenna, i.e. Loki's Torch. That seems to me a rather reliable argument for a historical association of Loki to that star.

That doesn't mean that Loki is Sirius, though. The rainbow has been described as Inanna's necklace, but by the same token that doesn't mean that Inanna is the rainbow.

 

[Desert Snake]

Loki isn't Satan

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

Lucifer has no wife. Nor does Satan. Lilith derives from the ancient Sumerian goddess of the wind, Ninlil.

In my opinion I do believe he has one.

Kicked out from where?

Heaven

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Loki isn't Satan

That is exactly my point. Loki is an enemy of Satan.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

In my opinion I do believe he has one.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, of course!

Heaven

See, I don't believe Lucifer was ever kicked out of Heaven. She's still there, the original Queen of Heaven!

Who do you believe kicked Lucifer out of Heaven?

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, of course!

Mhmz

See, I don't believe Lucifer was ever kicked out of Heaven. She's still there, the original Queen of Heaven!

Who do you believe kicked Lucifer out of Heaven?

She?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

She?

Lucifer is not bound by this or that biological sex or gender. Sometimes Lucifer comes as a he, sometimes as a she, sometimes as a they, etc. Lucifer teaches us to look and indeed move beyond such notions. Lucifer liberates us from such limiting notions!

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

Lucifer is not bound by this or that biological sex or gender. Sometimes Lucifer comes as a he, sometimes as a she, sometimes as a they, etc. Lucifer teaches us to look and indeed move beyond such notions. Lucifer liberates us from such limiting notions!

This is random. Are you referring to Baphomet? Idk.
I know that Lucifer is not Baphomet but some think he is.

 

[Liu]

No worries - thank you for your explanation of where you were coming from!

If you want some historical foundations, Loucetios' name, like Lucifer, means the light-bringer, the shining one. Loucetios is closely associated with Nemetona, she of the sacred grove. Nemetona has been described as the eponymous deity of the Nemetes, a Germanic or Celto-Germanic tribe living along the Rhine.

[...]

Loki's relationship with Odin has certain parallels to Lugh's relationship to Balor and Lleu Llaw Gyffes' relationship to Gwydion (indeed, Gwydion's name is similar to Odin).

I know basically nothing about Celtic mythology, so that is mostly namedropping for me, but interesting nevertheless.
Some Odinists even consider Loki to be the alter-ego of Odin - is there similar theories for their Celtic counterparts?

Similarly, Loki is closely associated with Angrboda, who dwells in the iron-wood (by Loki, she is said to be the mother of Fenrir at least and according to the Prose Edda also Hel and Jormungandr).

I knew of that, but wouldn't have expected to find similar in other mythologies - but makes sense due to the probably close cultural exchange between Germanics and Celts.

That doesn't mean that Loki is Sirius, though. The rainbow has been described as Inanna's necklace, but by the same token that doesn't mean that Inanna is the rainbow.

I didn't intend to claim them being the same, just being associated with one another.
In mythology, and especially in comparative mythology, I basically never say that x is y.
Similarly, to return to the thread's topic, I wouldn't say that any entity from another mythology is Satan, but some certainly have characteristics similar to some of those Satan is said to have.
And if the Satan I believe in exists, then those myths could be considered reflections of aspects of It.

 

[Liu]

This is random. Are you referring to Baphomet? Idk.
I know that Lucifer is not Baphomet but some think he is.

I guess you two simply refer to two different spirits using the same name.

Regarding Baphomet, to me that is one of the most fitting symbols of that what is Satan. I normally call Satan an it, and not a he, she, xe or shi, but not knowing whether spirits even exist I certainly wouldn't worry about the pronoun usage of others regarding them.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

I guess you two simply refer to two different spirits using the same name.

Regarding Baphomet, to me that is one of the most fitting symbols of that what is Satan. I normally call Satan an it, and not a he, she, xe or shi, but not knowing whether spirits even exist I certainly wouldn't worry about the pronoun usage of others regarding them.

I have heard that Baphomet is Pagan.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

This is random.

No it ain't. Lucifer is a Latin name for the planet Venus. The planet Venus has been known by many names around the world throughout history, including as Venus herself amongst the ancient Romans. Aphrodite was one of his names amongst the ancient Greeks. Aphrodite also takes the form Aphroditus, whence Hermaphroditus and the word hermaphrodite.

Are you referring to Baphomet?

Nope. 'Baphomet' was originally a medieval corruption of 'Muhammad' (pbuh). From the mid-19th century on, the name Baphomet became associated with Eliphas Levi's 'Sabbatic Goat' (or Goat of Mendes), and from there influenced Aleister Crowley and ultimately the Church of Satan (though likely via a somewhat different route).

I know that Lucifer is not Baphomet but some think he is.

I quite agree.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

No it ain't. Lucifer is a Latin name for the planet Venus. The planet Venus has been known by many names around the world throughout history, including as Venus herself amongst the ancient Romans. Aphrodite was one of his names amongst the ancient Greeks. Aphrodite also takes the form Aphroditus, whence Hermaphroditus and the word hermaphrodite.

I don't really believe that Lucifer is a planet. I believe he is a being.

ope. 'Baphomet' was originally a medieval corruption of 'Muhammad' (pbuh). From the mid-19th century on, the name Baphomet became associated with Eliphas Levi's 'Sabbatic Goat' (or Goat of Mendes), and from there influenced Aleister Crowley and ultimately the Church of Satan (though likely via a somewhat different route).

Sounds interesting.

I quite agree.

Ok then.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Some Odinists even consider Loki to be the alter-ego of Odin - is there similar theories for their Celtic counterparts?

Yes, there has been a certain amount of discussion of Loki being Odin's alter-ego in the academic literature too. And if one looks at the relevant old Irish and Welsh sources it seems as if Lugh is sometimes referring to Odin and Gwydion to Loki (judging by certain interesting parallels between these stories and the Norse stories).

This has all contributed to the difficulty scholars generally have with tying the origins, character and role of Loki down. Whilst I have done a certain amount of reading around the topic, my beliefs and practices (which some might say are a little on the eclectic side ) ultimately derive from my conversations with God, Lucifer and Satan.

I didn't intend to claim them being the same, just being associated with one another.

In that case, sorry, my mistake!

Similarly, to return to the thread's topic, I wouldn't say that any entity from another mythology is Satan, but some certainly have characteristics similar to some of those Satan is said to have.

I agree that not all apparently similar entities are Satan (I think Lucifer is a case in point). But I think a fair few of them are.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

I don't really believe that Lucifer is a planet. I believe he is a being.

I believe the planets are beings!

 

[Desert Snake]

That is exactly my point. Loki is an enemy of Satan.

Great, very interesting.

 

[Tabu]

Satan / Ravan are the five vices which are responsible for the degradation and sorrow of mankind.
They are Lust , anger , greed , attachment and ego. All the evils originate from these 5 vices.
In most religions Satan is symbolized as a serpent , like the serpent which allures Adam and eve to eat the forbidden fruit .
In Hinduism a snake bites the gods and turns them black , a snake is also found around Shiv's neck probably representing that he tames those evils.