Who is Satan? Or what does Satan represent to you?

[Tumah]

Oh, we can agree here. I have said several times now, I believe these are distinct entities.



The tradition I am referring to goes back much further than that.



I am not a Christian, so why the assumption that the Lucifer I am referring to is the Christian usage of the term (whether the early Christian usage or later ones)?

Because today most people (including myself) associate Lucifer with the Christian figure. I didn't even know the name was the Latin namefor the Greek Phospherous until reading it about it earlier today.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Because today most people (including myself) associate Lucifer with the Christian figure. I didn't even know the name was the Latin namefor the Greek Phospherous until reading it about it earlier today.

And this is a big part of the problem.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

~;> biblically speaking the scripture is precisely accurate to distinguished
between what is darkness
therefore
satan is not the darkness literally
and kindly look unto this passage
if you please
as it is written
:read:
Zechariah 5:1
Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll.
2 And he said unto me, What see you? And I answered, I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits.
3 Then said he unto me, This is the curse that goes forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that steals shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that swears shall be cut off as on that side according to it.
4 I will bring it forth, says the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that swears falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof.
5 Then the angel that talked with me went forth, and said unto me, Lift up now yours eyes, and see what is this that goes forth.
6 And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah that goes forth. He said moreover, This is their resemblance through all the earth.
7 And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sits in the midst of the ephah.

8 And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof.

9 Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven.
10 Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Where do these bear the ephah?
11 And he said unto me, To build it an house in the land of Shinar: and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base.

... . and kindly compare this written verses
unto the written one above
as it is written
:read:
Deuteronomy 5:22
These words the LORD spoke unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

23 And it came to pass, when all of you heard the voice out of the midst of the darkness, (for the mountain did burn with fire,) that all of you came near unto me, even all the heads of your tribes, and your elders;

24 And all of you said, Behold, the LORD our God has showed us his glory and his greatness, and we have heard his voice out of the midst of the fire: we have seen this day that God does talk with man, and he lives.

and by the way spiritually speaking
satan is an angel before
he was been put into a curse
and this is what the scripture says
about angels
as it is written
:read:
Hebrews 1:7
And of the angels he says, Who makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

Hebrews 1:14
Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Hebrews 2:1
Therefore we ought to give the more earn heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
2 For if the word a spoken by angels was steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;


:ty:



godbless unto all always

I do not go by what the Bible says. I go by what God tells me.

The darkness is God's Adversary. Satan is the Adversary. Ergo the darkness is Satan.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

:smoke: and hope you consider to
compare this also
for there is a similarity between them

The Jinn
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

[72.1] Say: It has been revealed to me that a party of the jinn listened, and they said: Surely we have heard a wonderful Quran,
[72.2] Guiding to the right way, so we believe in it, and we will not set up any one with our Lord:
[72.3] And that He-- exalted be the majesty of our Lord-- has not taken a consort, nor a son:
[72.4] And that the foolish amongst us used to forge extravagant things against Allah:
[72.5] And that we thought that men and jinn did not utter a lie against Allah:
[72.6] And that persons from among men used to seek refuge with persons from among jinn, so they increased them in wrongdoing:
[72.7] And that they thought as you think, that Allah would not raise anyone:
[72.8] And that we sought to reach heaven, but we found it filled with strong guards and flaming stars.
[72.9] And that we used to sit in some of the sitting-places thereof to steal a hearing, but he who would (try to) listen now would find a flame lying in wait for him:
[72.10] And that we know not whether evil is meant for those who are on earth or whether their Lord means to bring them good:

... . about this written scriptures

[72.8] And that we sought to reach heaven, but we found it filled with strong guards and flaming stars.

. ... with this written scripture
as it is written
:read:
Hebrews 1:7
And of the angels he says, Who makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

what do you think my brethren
kindly correct us if we are mistaken
just askin


:ty:



godbless unto all always

The Angels and the Djinn are not the same kinds of entity.

 

[ukok102nak]

The Angels and the Djinn are not the same kinds of entity.

:smoke: were not saying its those djinn
we are telling about the scripture

... . about this written scriptures
:read:
[72.8] And that we sought to reach heaven, but we found it filled with strong guards and flaming stars.

. ... compare with this written scripture
as it is written
:read:
Hebrews 1:7
And of the angels he says, Who makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.


:ty:



godbless unto all always

 

[Tumah]

The Jewish Essenes called anyone not an Essene "ha satan" (the adversary),

I've never heard that before. Do you happen to have a source?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

:smoke: and the written scripture
is the very words of god
written by the people whom god's trusted
in the first place from the beggining
as it is written


:ty:



godbless unto all always

Ah, but you see, here we differ. You believe it is the Word of God, I do not.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

:smoke: were not saying its those djinn
we are telling about the scripture

... . about this written scriptures
:read:
[72.8] And that we sought to reach heaven, but we found it filled with strong guards and flaming stars.

. ... compare with this written scripture
as it is written
:read:
Hebrews 1:7
And of the angels he says, Who makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.


:ty:



godbless unto all always

Okay...So?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

If it matters to the argument, I've never once, in my entire life, heard anyone use the name ''Lucifer'', in a conversation /in a religious context/.
I understand 'who' many people think Lucifer is, but personally, means really nothing to me.

To each their own!

 

[The_Fisher_King]

:smoke: so its ok now . ...

:ty:


godbless unto all always

I don't follow. What point are you trying to make?

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

Lucifer is she and he. Sometimes Lucifer appears as a she, sometimes as a he, sometimes as genderqueer. Lucifer has (had) many names around the world throughout history. Among the ancient Sumerians, for example, Lucifer was known as Inanna. Amongst the Norse, as Loki.

Sounds interesting but I do believe more than is he a male. He has a wife named Lilith.

God is the One Who loves freedom, it is Satan who does not. That is how Lucifer - the bringer of light and the liberator - is God's servant and not the same as Satan.

Again I believe that Lucifer and Satan are the name being but with different names.
Lucifer does not serve god.

Lucifer doesn't have anything to do with Satan.

In my opinion they are the same beings but that is just me.

Fair enough. But I guess what I am asking is, how have you come to this belief? Lucifer and Satan have different origins.

Because before he was kicked out his real name was Lucifer and but when he was kicked out the church gave him the name Satan because they think is all bad and evil.
I prefer to call him Lucifer than the name Satan.

There are a few Christians who distinguish between Lucifer and Satan, though fewer still know Lucifer for who (s)he really is, one of God's Messengers and guides.

Lucifer is not gods messenger. He does guide people to free people from gods slavery.

Agreed. I believe Lucifer is the planet Venus.

I have heard of people say that.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I believe that they did and Lucifer is the Morning Star. Jesus isn't the Morning Star. Christians have called jesus the Morning star before.

In the Bible book of Revelation is where we find reference to Jesus as the morning star.

In Scripture, the expression from the Greek word ' pho.spho'ros ' is ' day star ' found at 2 Peter 1:19
Day star is similar in meaning to morning star because such stars at certain times or seasons of the year are the last to rise on the eastern horizon before the sun appears thus indicating the dawn of a new day. (In Jesus case the start of his millennium-long day governing over Earth)

Peter's reference at 2 Peter 1:19 is in connection to Jesus' coming ' glory ' time - Matthew 25:31-33
Meaning Jesus as coming into kingly power as king of God's kingdom for a thousand years over Earth.
Jesus being the offspring of David, and the bright morning star of Revelation 22:16, and that position Jesus also gives to those followers as mentioned at Revelation 2:10; Revelation 20:6; Revelation 5:9-10; Revelation 2:26-28

 

[serp777]

But what if God did not create Satan?

What would make him God then? That would mean that God didn't create everything.

 

[Liu]

I haven't created any characters. Lucifer, Inanna and Loki are all names (from different traditions) for the planet Venus.

Could you please give a source on Loki being associated with Venus? As far as I know he is associated with the star Sirius.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Sounds interesting but I do believe more than is he a male.

Fair enough.

He has a wife named Lilith.

Lucifer has no wife. Nor does Satan. Lilith derives from the ancient Sumerian goddess of the wind, Ninlil.

Again I believe that Lucifer and Satan are the name being but with different names.
Lucifer does not serve god.

Here we differ pretty significantly.

Because before he was kicked out his real name was Lucifer

Kicked out from where?

the church gave him the name Satan because they think is all bad and evil.

There is no doubt that the church has branded many good things bad and evil.

Lucifer is not gods messenger. He does guide people to free people from gods slavery.

Again, we clearly differ on this.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

What would make him God then? That would mean that God didn't create everything.

God is All, the Unity of all things. God is not the Creator of all things.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Could you please give a source on Loki being associated with Venus? As far as I know he is associated with the star Sirius.

This is what The God/dess tells me.

 

[Liu]

This is what The God/dess tells me.

Thanks for the reply. So it's merely what we call a unverified personal gnosis.
Would be helpful if you'd mention it if something you say is based only on rather subjective/personal sources as your deity having told you so. Else people might consider it to be a historical fact that Loki would be associated with Venus, and not "just" a modern view.

 

[1137]

What would make him God then? That would mean that God didn't create everything.

Why does god need to have created everything?

 

[arthra]

I already posted a response on another thread that responds rather well I think to the questions posed:

Who is Satan? Or what does Satan represent to you?

I'll summarize here my response:

"Satan" is not a "who". Satan is not a rebel angel fighting God. "Satan" or the devil is merely a symbolic of our lower human nature.

The Bahá'í Teachings inform us that there is no independent force of evil in creation, but terms such as "devil" or Satan" are used in sacred books as symbols of the promptings of the lower nature of man.

(The Universal House of Justice, 1985 Dec 02, Child Abuse, Psychology and Knowledge of Self)

It's also based on long held superstitions that people in the past used to explain various phenomena such as psychic disturbances and perhaps some forms of epilepsy.

Why is Satan the bad guy?