Who is the Baha’i Jesus and how does He differ from the Christian Jesus?

[Dawnofhope]

What is manifestation?
Is every person a manifestation?

Manifestation of God according to Baha'i theology

Throughout the ages, humanity’s spiritual, intellectual and moral capacities have been cultivated by the Founders of the great religions, among them Abraham, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, and—in more recent times—the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh.

These Figures are not simply ordinary people with a greater knowledge than others. Rather they are Manifestations of God, Who have exerted an incomparable influence on the evolution of human society. While each of Them has a distinct individuality and a definite mission, the Manifestations of God all share in a single, divinely-ordained purpose—to “educate the souls of men, and refine the character of every living man…”

Manifestations of God | What Bahá’ís Believe

Manifestation of God - Wikipedia

In short of what you described, Baha'i believes in the Trinity?

Baha'is believe in the Divinity of Christ, His Sonship, the Holy Spirit and the Father. We don't adhere to any doctrine of the Trinity, not do we recite any creed where the Trinity is mentioned.

 

[MJFlores]

It is a big topic.

Yes, it is to big to grasp what is a manifestation.
If I were a five year old, how would you illustrate what a manifestation is?
Would it be like a puppet and a puppeteer?

Would manifestation be likened to God as the puppeteer and JC would be the puppet?

Manifestations of God | What Bahá’ís Believe

Manifestation of God - Wikipedia

Read those links and the first said:

Throughout the ages, humanity’s spiritual, intellectual and moral capacities have been cultivated by the Founders of the great religions, among them Abraham, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, and—in more recent times—the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh.

These Figures are not simply ordinary people with a greater knowledge than others. Rather they are Manifestations of God, Who have exerted an incomparable influence on the evolution of human society.

My comments:

Why is Krishna recognized as a manifestation of God? Are we certain that this character is historical and real?
And looking at his bio [assuming he is real], he sure got a lot of consorts to look after.

Krishna - Wikipedia

Consorts Radha; Rukmini Satyabhama, Jambavati, Kalindi, Mitravinda, Lakshmana, Satya, Bhadra, Nagnajiti and 16,000–16,100 other junior queens

Next: Did he suffer from a blue baby syndrome?

Blue baby syndrome, also known as infant methemoglobinemia, is a condition where a baby’s skin turns blue. This occurs due to a decreased amount of hemoglobin in the baby’s blood.

Blue baby syndrome: Causes, symptoms, and treatments

Baha'is believe in the Divinity of Christ, His Sonship, the Holy Spirit and the Father. We don't adhere to any doctrine of the Trinity, not do we recite any creed where the Trinity is mentioned.

So would I be correct in saying that Baha'is believe Jesus Christ is God?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Yes, it is to big to grasp what is a manifestation.
If I were a five year old, how would you illustrate what a manifestation is?
Would it be like a puppet and a puppeteer?

View attachment 41194

Would manifestation be likened to God as the puppeteer and JC would be the puppet?



Read those links and the first said:

Throughout the ages, humanity’s spiritual, intellectual and moral capacities have been cultivated by the Founders of the great religions, among them Abraham, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, and—in more recent times—the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh.

These Figures are not simply ordinary people with a greater knowledge than others. Rather they are Manifestations of God, Who have exerted an incomparable influence on the evolution of human society.

My comments:

Why is Krishna recognized as a manifestation of God? Are we certain that this character is historical and real?
And looking at his bio [assuming he is real], he sure got a lot of consorts to look after.

Krishna - Wikipedia

Consorts Radha; Rukmini Satyabhama, Jambavati, Kalindi, Mitravinda, Lakshmana, Satya, Bhadra, Nagnajiti and 16,000–16,100 other junior queens

Next: Did he suffer from a blue baby syndrome?

View attachment 41196

Blue baby syndrome, also known as infant methemoglobinemia, is a condition where a baby’s skin turns blue. This occurs due to a decreased amount of hemoglobin in the baby’s blood.

Blue baby syndrome: Causes, symptoms, and treatments



So would I be correct in saying that Baha'is believe Jesus Christ is God?

According to your link:

According to Guy Beck, "most scholars of Hinduism and Indian history accept the historicity of Krishna—that he was a real male person, whether human or divine, who lived on Indian soil by at least 1000 BCE and interacted with many other historical persons within the cycles of the epic and puranic histories." Yet, Beck also notes that there is an "enormous number of contradictions and discrepancies surrounding the chronology of Krishna's life as depicted in the Sanskrit canon."[139]

Lanvanya Vemsani states that Krishna can be inferred to have lived between 3227 BCE – 3102 BCE from the Puranas. A number of scholars, such as A. K. Bansal, B. V. Raman places Krishna's birth year as 3228 BCE. A paper presented in a conference in 2004 by a group of archaeologists, religious scholars and astronomers from Somnath Trust of Gujarat, which was organised at Prabhas Patan, the supposed location of the where Krishna spent his last moments, fixes the death of Sri Krishna on 18 February 3102 BC at the age of 125 years and 7 months.

Krishna - Wikipedia

How about Moses. Do you believe He was historic? According to Wikipedia:

The modern scholarly consensus is that the figure of Moses is a mythical figure,[10] and while, as William G. Dever writes, "a Moses-like figure may have existed somewhere in the southern Transjordan in the mid-late 13th century B.C.", archaeology cannot confirm his existence.[12] Certainly no Egyptian sources mention Moses or the events of Exodus–Deuteronomy, nor has any archaeological evidence been discovered in Egypt or the Sinai wilderness to support the story in which he is the central figure.[39] The story of his discovery picks up a familiar motif in ancient Near Eastern mythological accounts of the ruler who rises from humble origins: Thus Sargon of Akkad's Akkadian account of his own origins runs:

Moses - Wikipedia

Unfortunately its hard to find solid evidence for the existence of any famous figure who lived over three thousand years ago.

Was Jesus God according to Baha'i theology?

As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized, that the reality of the mystery of the Immaculacy of the Virgin Mary is confessed, and the primacy of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, is upheld and defended.

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Promised Day Is Come, Pages 108-113

 

[firedragon]

I see it is a Station that we can used to understand who Jesus was. Christ means Jesus was Annointed with that Station, it is not to me a material fact, even if I believe that Jesus was a virgin birth.

I have no idea what the 'sired monogenis' is. Sorry as my time has been limited for a few months and a couple more, as I am doing study for work qualifications, so sorry have not looked it up.

Baha'u'llah is known as the Father, so that to me shows how we can understand Jesus can be known as the Son.

Thank you for your tollerance of my learned ignorance.

RegardsTony

Apologies. Monogenis means "Only Begotten" as in John 3:16.

 

[firedragon]

I'm impressed you have read as much as you have and purchased some books. Being able to read Arabic is a great asset. It is best to be able to understand a faith through studying the writings first hand rather than what others have to say about them.

I don't see the Trinity as problematic as the word is never mentioned in the NT. It is man made doctrine to reconcile certain theological concepts in regards Christology such as the nature of Jesus, His Divinity, Sonship, the Father, and the Holy Spirit. While the doctrine can be admired for its elegance and the weighty concepts it attempts to reconcile, the nature of God and His Manifestations can never be fully understood.

I agree the word Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible. You say its man made concept, that its not fully understood etc etc are irrelevant brother.

The trinity and the Bahai concept of Jesus cannot be reconciled. The question is the Christian Jesus and Bahai Jesus, not the Jesus of the New Testament and Bahai scripture. So the New Testament not having the name is not relevant.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I agree the word Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible. You say its man made concept, that its not fully understood etc etc are irrelevant brother.

The trinity and the Bahai concept of Jesus cannot be reconciled. The question is the Christian Jesus and Bahai Jesus, not the Jesus of the New Testament and Bahai scripture. So the New Testament not having the name is not relevant.

Non trinitarianism is a recognised form of Christianity that rejects the mainstream doctrine of the Trinity.

Nontrinitarianism - Wikipedia

So there are quite a few significant denominations of non Trinitarian Christians.

The OP question is "Who is the Baha'i Jesus and how does He differ from the Christian Jesus?" The Baha'i Jesus has core theological traits that closely align with mainstream Christianity such the Divinity, Sonship, the Holy Spirit, the Father. Baha'i Jesus is based on the New Testament AND well as the Baha'i writings. Mainstream Christianity has doctrines based on these same core Biblical theologies from which Baha'i Jesus emerges. After several centuries the word 'trinity' becomes mainstream orthodox Christianity. Of course nontrinitarian Christianity has doctrines based on those same core biblical theologies that deliberately avoid the word trinity.

The Baha'i Jesus differences with the trinitarians are more than just semantics of course. They are conceptual because the Trinitarian Christian Jesus has the same substance as God Himself and so becomes God incarnate. The Baha'i Jesus does not. This is an important difference so I agree the Christian Trinitarian and Baha'i concept of Jesus can not be reconciled. However in regards Trinitarianism, the Baha'i Jesus still sits within the spectrum of Christian belief albeit clearly not mainstream.

 

[rational experiences]

Non trinitarianism is a recognised form of Christianity that rejects the mainstream doctrine of the Trinity.

Nontrinitarianism - Wikipedia

So there are quite a few significant denominations of non Trinitarian Christians.

The OP question is who is the Baha'i Jesus and how does He differ from the Christian Jesus? The Baha'i Jesus has core theological traits that closely align with Divinity, Sonship, the Holy Spit, the Father and is based on the New Testament AND well as the Baha'i writings. Mainstream Christianity has doctrines based on these core Biblical theologies that use the word trinity. Nontrinitarian Christianity has doctrines based on those same core biblical theologies that deliberately avoid the word trinity.

The Baha'i Jesus differences with the trinitarians are more than just semantics of course. They are conceptual where Jesus has the same substance as God Himself and so becomes God incarnate. This is an important difference and I agree the Christian Trinitarian and Baha'i concept of Jesus can not be reconciled.

God the stone as mass was once stated to be a body of spirit. In science that is a mass of gases burning, opening into more space as it burnt, so as space opened, it enabled an increase of nothingness to stop burning....so space held owned form/mass.

When the Sun UFO attacked Earth it owned converting Earth, so the nuclear equals was the dust/chemicals...already partially destroyed....so the dust was nuclear and the cause of man made in the image of.....for we are not nuclear...we live in light gases, water owner.

So Jesus is the substance of God, meaning the spirit is a gas....what CH evaluation was the GASES/SPIRIT that arose out of the body of stone are a gas and are not a nuclear fission dust/chemical reaction gas.

What relativity status was given to a human in science inferences about owning self presence in natural NOBLE gas mass as compared to what occurs to life/body when you do a nuclear dust ground fission reaction in the environment.

 

[firedragon]

Non trinitarianism is a recognised form of Christianity that rejects the mainstream doctrine of the Trinity.

Nontrinitarianism - Wikipedia

So there are quite a few significant denominations of non Trinitarian Christians.

The OP question is "Who is the Baha'i Jesus and how does He differ from the Christian Jesus?" The Baha'i Jesus has core theological traits that closely align with mainstream Christianity such the Divinity, Sonship, the Holy Spirit, the Father. Baha'i Jesus is based on the New Testament AND well as the Baha'i writings. Mainstream Christianity has doctrines based on these same core Biblical theologies from which Baha'i Jesus emerges. After several centuries the word 'trinity' becomes mainstream orthodox Christianity. Of course nontrinitarian Christianity has doctrines based on those same core biblical theologies that deliberately avoid the word trinity.

The Baha'i Jesus differences with the trinitarians are more than just semantics of course. They are conceptual because the Trinitarian Christian Jesus has the same substance as God Himself and so becomes God incarnate. The Baha'i Jesus does not. This is an important difference so I agree the Christian Trinitarian and Baha'i concept of Jesus can not be reconciled. However in regards Trinitarianism, the Baha'i Jesus still sits within the spectrum of Christian belief albeit clearly not mainstream.

Okay. So you wish to analyse the Non-Trinitarian Christianity and the Bahai Jesus?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Okay. So you wish to analyse the Non-Trinitarian Christianity and the Bahai Jesus?

Non-Trinitarian Christianity is clearly on the spectrum of Christian belief, so a nontrinitarian Christian Jesus isn't an oxymoron. It is reasonable to compare and contrast Baha'i Jesus with nontrinitarian Christian Jesus.

 

[VoidoftheSun]

Its worth considering Moses had the title 'Friend of God', Muhammad Messenger of God' and Baha'u'llah "Glory of God'.

Baha'is view Krishna as a Manifestation of God and see Buddha as being the ninth Avatar of Vishnu and also a Manifestation. The avatar concept has some similarities with returned Prophets within Abrahamic traditions.

Each Manifestation of God is seen as being a perfect reflection of the Divine who Message is communicated in accordance with the language, concept and culture of the time from which they emerge. This explains to some degree their diverse teachings and means of communicating.

Also worth noting that Imam Ali was also called "Friend of God" and "Lion of God". Prophet Muhammad was called "Slave of God".
I find the tendency very interesting, beside that basically any of the names of Prophets in the Old Testament (Tanakh) bearing an "el" as part of their name had some kind of similar designation etymologically.

 

[firedragon]

Non-Trinitarian Christianity is clearly on the spectrum of Christian belief, so a nontrinitarian Christian Jesus isn't an oxymoron. It is reasonable to compare and contrast Baha'i Jesus with nontrinitarian Christian Jesus.

Brother. I did not claim anyone is an Oxymoron, or that non-trinitarians are "not Christian", or that it is not reasonable to compare and contrast or anything. I had a specific clarification because this is who I am.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Brother. I did not claim anyone is an Oxymoron, or that non-trinitarians are "not Christian", or that it is not reasonable to compare and contrast or anything. I had a specific clarification because this is who I am.

My comments were simply to further clarify how I view nontrinitarian Christianity in regards Christianity as a whole. No offence was intended and none was taken. I'm happy to explore how nontrinitarian Christian Jesus compares to Baha'i Jesus if you want.

 

[firedragon]

My comments were simply to further clarify how I view nontrinitarian Christianity in regards Christianity as a whole. No offence was intended and none was taken. I'm happy to explore how nontrinitarian Christian Jesus compares to Baha'i Jesus if you want.

Brother. I understand what you say, but this is not what I want. Hope you understand, this is your thread. Cheers.

 

[oldbadger]

I'd be much more concerned about the reliability of the historical Celsus than anything Baha'is have to say.

Celsus - Wikipedia

Of course you would be concerned about Celcus!
A weeny bit biased?
People who write against Abrahamic faiths?....... wicked fellows all, demons, even. Maybe you see those who write against Bahai a little bit like that..... hiding behind their pseudonames...... ?
(I won't forget that.... )

Of course Christians banned his work and his name as much as possible.

Celcus was a reasonable scholar who did not believe in Christianity. Let's see:-
Conceding that Christians are not without success in business (infructuosi in negotiis), Celsus wants them to be good citizens, to retain their own belief but worship the emperors and join their fellow citizens in defending the empire.[27] It is an earnest and striking appeal on behalf of unity and mutual toleration. One of Celsus' most bitter complaints is of the refusal of Christians to cooperate with civil society, and their contempt for local customs and the ancient religions.

 

[MJFlores]

According to Guy Beck, "most scholars of Hinduism and Indian history accept the historicity of Krishna

That guy? Guy Beck?
Guy L. Beck is an assistant professor in the School of Continuing Studies at Tulane University and the editor of Alternative Krishnas: Regional and Vernacular Variations on a Hindu Deity and Sacred Sound: Experiencing Music in World Religions. Google Books
Born: 3 August 1948 (age 71 years), Manlius, New York, United States
Education: Syracuse University
Record label: STR Digital Records
Albums: Sacred Raga
Sorry he doesn't ring a bell
He isn't a renown anthropologist or historian.

He is wearing blue [my fav color]
Krishna is blue also like Doctor Manhattan and the smurfs

How about Moses. Do you believe He was historic?

versus

Throughout the ages, humanity’s spiritual, intellectual and moral capacities have been cultivated by the Founders of the great religions, among them Abraham, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, and—in more recent times—the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh.

If Krishna isn't how would that affect Moses?
But Baha'i do believe in Moses so if he isn't historical that affects your beliefs.

As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized

That is the problem with the word divinity - sometimes it refers to holiness and sometimes it refers to being a deity.

Then it is safe to conclude that the Baha'i faith regard Jesus Christ as God

And I am I right in saying, that the Jesus depicted by the mainstream Christianity [God the Son] is one and the same Jesus in the Baha'i Faith?

I have found out in the course of the many exchanges with people in this forum is they believe in different Jesuses - each are different from one Jesus to the next.

Nicene Jesus - invented in 325 AD Turkey

Muslim Jesus - invented in 7th century Mecca

Oneness Jesus - invented 1610 AD Holland

Jesus former Archangel Micheal now Mighty God - invented 1870 AD USA

Jesus one of the truine gods who visited North America - invented 1820 AD USA

Jesus Christ, as truly written in the Bible

 

[TransmutingSoul]

monogenis - only begotten as bible says

You believe that Jesus was the son of God as in the sired monogenis?

I thought I made it clear that I see it as a station. You would know that he Quran offers this about the Messengers, that Adam is Chosen of God, Noah preacher of God, Abraham Friend of God, Moses interlocutor with God, Jesus Word of God, Muhammad Messenger of God.

I see the bible used the Son of God in the same way.

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

I thought I made it clear that I see it as a station. You would know that he Quran offers this about the Messengers, that Adam is Chosen of God, Noah preacher of God, Abraham Friend of God, Moses interlocutor with God, Jesus Word of God, Muhammad Messenger of God.

I see the bible used the Son of God in the same way.

Regards Tony

The Bible used "Monogenis". Only Son. Quran is irrelevant.

So however your understand of Jesus not the understanding of Christianity you mean?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Throughout the ages, humanity’s spiritual, intellectual and moral capacities have been cultivated by the Founders of the great religions, among them Abraham, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, and—in more recent times—the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh.

You ae forgetting Joseph Smith of the LDS and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of the Ahmadiyyas. There are other claimants to the position. There could be about a 1000 in India only, even if you do not consider other countries. Why do you pick and choose without any reason?

 

[firedragon]

Does the Bahai faith consider Jesus as a biological son of God?

 

[Aupmanyav]

"most scholars of Hinduism and Indian history accept the historicity of Krishna -"

Was Jesus God according to Baha'i theology?

As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized, that the reality of the mystery of the Immaculacy of the Virgin Mary is confessed, and the primacy of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, is upheld and defended.

Don't say 'scholars', say believers. And believers can believe in any kind of crap. First prove the existence of anything divine other than (see image).
What Bahais say is that Jesus and their Iranian preacher are at equal level. Both were puppets of the puppeteer and nothing more, and that they cannot understand how Mary could immaculately give birth to Jesus - that is a mystery.
Would you like to enlarge of this mystery, Adrian, whose seed was Jesus in the Bahai view, if he was not the son of Allah?