Who IS "The Only TRUE God"- as Jesus put it?

[Kriya Yogi]

hi all readers ,dear friends
Greetings ,Compliments of the day.


do you think jesus actually did lied to save his own life ? he was actually fearful ;afraid of being killed by those who opposed him. if he was god then he should not be fearful so much so even to lied about it. & he actually preached to others that one should not be fearful and being honest. does anyone know the biblical references pertaining to this ?

warmest regards
thanks for reading

Jesus never lied. Not sure where you got this from? He allowed that incident to happen as to take on the many karmic debts or sins of mankind and his disciples. With his supernatural abilities he could have gotten out of the situation easily if he wanted to but instead chose to take on their sins and transmute them himself. He also knew he would be resurrected to so it was only a temporary thing.

 

[JP of PA]

Hi all
Greetings ,Compliments of the day.
just revision

YHWH ,the omniscience (the all-knowing ,the one who knew the minds of satan) ,the omnipotent (the all-powerful ,the one who know what satan can or cannot do) and the omnipresent (the one who is all-present who knows the where about of satan in all eternity). & most certainly the creator of satan ,god ,knowing all that he did and will do) still YHWH created satan. Is this your god ? sorry i don't want this kind of god. Because your YHWH[Bull-Calf Yah ,Bull-El ,Adonai(my LORD) ,Ya Ho WaiH or Je-ho-vah] created evil (see Is 45:7 use dead sea scroll bible for accuracy). Bottom-line your YHWH is the real ORIGINATOR of EVIL not that yHWH is oblivious over satan He knew all his evil ways. therefore he created all his evil ways too. please don't put all the blame on satan he is only ,the result of his creator YHWH[Bull-Calf Yah ,Bull-El ,Adonai(my LORD) ,Ya Ho WaiH or Je-ho-vah]

how kind ???? your god ,sure do know how the devil thinks and he is the Creator of it ,how bloody kind your jesus is ? please don't say he did it out of love and tests of our humankind He can safe it for Himself think all the negative impact that the creator jesus generated. i rather he keep his evil creation to himself.

therefore icebuddy,your god surely do understands how satan thinks ,your god must be crazy to you icebuddy ?


this one ,you don't need to understand satan ,you just to need to deduce it from different info parts in the bible. i think your love for them is too much till your sense of linking ,relating and deducing info is very much extinct.

base on all the available info and research the god jesus is absolutely not a full god (the creator of evil and universe) the bible is far from being the word of god , i won't conclude now because this amount of info here just pinch of salt in the ocean. there are more ,you ain't see nothing yet….

For everyone reading this site
Having said all that ,for more than 2000 years christianity and jesus had landed on earth ,ask ourselves is there any positive impact & outcome on our earth ,look at our earth history now full off wars and tragedies especially over the mid-east israel region the land of YHWH. well ,christians believe its the work of satan ? but the SOURCE of all these is none other than your YHWH (the creator of evil and universe)

thanks for reading

These types of problematic questions that arise are the result of not having a better understanding of the Oneness of all that is.

Yahweh is a much more complex Entity than the carnal mind can comprehend on the surface; and we are all a part of that Entity.

A deeper understanding of these dilemmas can be reached when it becomes more clear to a person that all things, all creations, all entities, everything that exists, is a reflected aspect of Yahweh's mind, the Eternal Entities own personality and makeup. And yes, this includes satan himself.

The word "satan" means "accuser." Yahshua, the Firstfruits begotten Son of God, came to die as a reconciliation unto God on behalf of man. But to understand how this all works together, we must understand the Oneness of all. God is in man, and man is in God. Everything that takes place in what we call this "physical realm," is an actual thought of Yahweh. All creatures are manifestations of His own thoughts and exist in and through Him, just as He exists within us, knowing all thoughts of all men.

So, how does this relate to satan and Yahshua? Satan (whether he "exists" as an actual entity or not is not NEARLY as important as what he represents), is (amongst other things) a representation of Yahweh's own mind, the part of God's own consciousness that recognizes sin for what it is, and accuses, and demands a judgment for it. Satan is the "prosecuting attorney" within the mind of the Creating Entity, the Eternal, the "Tao."

But to balance this out, that aspect of Yahweh's mind and makeup that desires to show mercy was manifested in the form of the crucified Son, Yahshua. He is the "defense attorney."

1 Timothy 2
5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.

Hebrews 4
14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone into the heavens,Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin.

This idea of satan being a manifestation of Yahweh's own mind is not the least bit unbiblical, as two different books in the Old Testament reference the same event, with one attributing the act to God, while the other attributes the act to satan.

2 Samuel 24
1 Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, "Go and take a census of Israel and Judah."

1 Chronicles 21
1 Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.

Is it so difficut to see, by reconciling the two passages, that satan is, in fact, "the anger of the LORD" (Yahweh)?

The problem is Christianity does not see, understand, or accept higher spiritual truths such as this because, as a whole, Christianity (as well as the majority of mankind) is blinded to the ways of Yahweh, blinded to the Oneness of all, and blinded to the divine makeup that is within every man, being One with the Creator Itself. Clearly, Christianity, seeing many different and conflicting "truths" within its own book that result in denominationalism and division, is wearing a blindfold. (Even as a blindfold was placed on Yahshua. All the things that were done to Christ's physical body during His affliction were merely a foreshadowing of what would become of His church body on this earth. But that is an entirely different subject.)

It should not be assumed (as many people mistakenly do) that because Christianity is divided, and in many ways corrupt, that this is proof that the original Scriptures are not divinely inspired, or are untrue. Christians are just blind to their meaning and lack understanding.

 

[abysslightdarkness]

hi all readers ,dear friends
Greetings
Compliments of the day.

i am wondering whether my last posts on the argument of the omniscience of god is applicable for your religion. if the christian context is taken out. Is my argument view point still stands & applicable to your religion? Any belief system with the similar god doctrine as the christianity will be applicable to my argumentative critique.

this for JP of PA
Satan in hebrew means adversary from the verb saTan, "to lie in wait" only up till the about 200 BC and then later in the 200 AD the greek version of satan 'diabolos' had made it means adversary then later ,or the accuser. just to made it very clear.

for Kriya Yogi
i am wondering whether my previous posts on the argument of the omniscience of god is applicable for your religion. if the christian context is taken out. Is my argument view point still stands & applicable to your religion? Any belief system with the similar god doctrine as the christianity will be applicable to my argumentative critique.
having said that

Yes Jesus has a God, the same God that resides within all of us./QUOTE]
i assumed you meant everything has a part of god's manifestation would that include all devil acts too ? in hinduism would be negative karma ;every bad actions has a part of god's manifestation ?

now for my jesus lied notion
Jesus lied ,a white lie still a lie.

Do you think jesus actually did lied to save his own life ? he was actually fearful ;afraid of being killed by those who opposed him. if he was god then he should not be fearful so much so even to lied about it. & he actually preached to others that one should not be fearful and being honest. does anyone know the biblical references pertaining to this ?

John 7:1-11
The celebration of the Sukkoth or Booths or Tabernacles or Thanksgiving usually celebrate during the Sep-Oct for 7-14 days. A feast celebration.
If jesus was a god ,should not ,resulting on lying his way out to his brothers to escape being killed by the Judeans. This fear of being killed or whether "his time have not arrived yet" ,must not be the excuse for making this white lied ;this deceiving act must not be the reason for escaping being killed because of his godly status jesus had. If he was god he should have the potential ;the ways and means in pacifying the Judeans rather than he fearfully & pathetically lured them out of focus. a white lie is still a lie.

warmest regards

 

[icebuddy]

please do constructive rebuttals guys ,please DON'T be like iceBUD.

You must be trying to become my best friend

you are a real slow learner…… or you did it purposely.

i thought time was relative?

i think you definitely never did a course on molecular biology. all animals including us are in more DNA similarity then you want to believe so …please check out DNA genetic section.

DNA in all animals are the same language and code(information), thats gives more evidence of a creator. This is also why every Evolutionist must say we "ALL" came from the first life form. But DNA is full of information and information comes from a Intelligent designer. Information in DNA is not matter and is proof of God. Not sure if you believe in any God...

Bottom-line your YHWH is the real ORIGINATOR of EVIL

He created you too However, God may know the future, but that doesnt mean he chose satans path or your path. Like a bird looking down at a river, seeing the end from the beginning, but only the fish see whats right in front of them.

Evil - What is evil anyways? Does Evil even exist or is it in your mind? What makes something Evil anyways? (I beilive in evil, but why do you?)

my posts are all research base has nothing to do with my emotions.

We are two different people and will probably never see Eye to eye. I saw a bumper sticker the other day that said, "Jesus Loves you but I dont"... Oh, and your posts are full of hatred toward Christianity what ever you may think..

You had made god more evil again.

Before we go any deeper, what is your understanding of Evil? Also, How do you apply your deffinition of Evil to My God, Lord Jesus Christ?

i hope the rest of the readers ,you do understand that god being omniscience also means god knows all your freewill even before you start to WILL it.
Hence ,god knows the freewill of satan and therefore ,
Unfortunately god created satan; god started it ,god allows it therefore god WILL it ,& then satan did it

Your problem here is that if God didnt know, then he is not God. If he Did know then he is God, but the creator of evil? This is a problem that cannot be solved. You have created a situation like asking, "Can God create a rock too heavy for him to lift"? We have no idea when God knew Satan was going to become evil, the term omniscience means infinite awareness and knolledge. Your darkness has made you focus upon Evil, but what are your thoughts on Love and Good? Your belief would have you also saying God created Love and Goodness as well. Who are you to say God will not overcome evil in order to better creation? Doesnt God who knows all things tell us Evil is going to be deafeated and Love will remain? Evil is only temporary until Jesus returns for he deafeated satan by his resurrection.

Do you have Kids? Have you ever told them the stove is Hot? i sure have, and every one of them touched it. Now they know Hot and had pain of the experience. Never once did my children look at me and call me evil for making the stove Hot, even though i knew they would touch it. However, they will not touch the stove again.

i don't claim to know god. you claimed i know god. you are flattering me. and stop that.

Then how can anyone claim to know what God knew or did not know concerning his creation? Did he know Satan would turn on him? Did he know Adam and Eve would disobey him? Why stop there, if he knows everything, doesnt the Bible say Evil is defeated and Love wins? Who are you to say if all this wasnt worth the final outcome? (Evil defeated and Love wins)

Take birth pains of a mother. Every mom knows she will endure great pain to experiance child birth, but ever mom will tell you the Pain was worth it. Who are you to say This temperal existance of Evil is not worth the eternal future of Love and bliss?

I want to thank you for strengthining my faith and giving me awareness of questions like this. Your problem is that you have not followed the conclussion of Gods Plan. If God knows all things and knew both Evil and Good would rise out of creation, then what does he say about the future? Evil will be destroyed and Good and Love will prevail for eternity after. So you can sit there and say God is Evil or created Evil, but God also created Good and Love and chose the side of Love and Good and will defeat Evil for he knows all things. 1000 years from now i will be looking back at this life and say it was all worth it.

In Love,
Tom

 

[abysslightdarkness]

hi all readers ,dear friends
Greetings
Compliments of the day.

A reply to ice Bid

You must be trying to become my best friend

You must be dreaming because your off time from here must be too short. you should consider taking an eternal OFF from here.

i thought time was relative?

Thats right , so you did it intentionally ,i see ,but sill very slow. Obliviousness is the middle name of christianity. Take Note if you have this reaction.

DNA in all animals are the same language and code(information), thats gives more evidence of a creator. This is also why every Evolutionist must say we "ALL" came from the first life form. But DNA is full of information and information comes from a Intelligent designer. Information in DNA is not matter and is proof of God. Not sure if you believe in any God...
He created you too However, God may know the future, but that doesnt mean he chose satans path or your path. Like a bird looking down at a river, seeing the end from the beginning, but only the fish see whats right in front of them.

A non-genetic student definitely ,DNA don't tell us about the Intelligent designer/proof of God. DNA is matter; there are attached proteins in the spiral strands they have mass and they tells us about the biological building blocks of living things. Please don't jump to other conclusions and get carried away. thank you. please read up before you further embarrass yourself because of that please don't mislead the public of wrong info that is the lowest action ;bullying those who are not so informed ? please take responsibility over your info you typed here ,this goes to all readers as well. & make sure your info you provide comes with references in which others can also refer and research thank you. please don't take Icebuddy as an example

Your god YHWH can't even be clear of the DNA he planted in grasshopper ,locust & cricket (see Lev11:20-3) ,much lesser about our genes. he is absolutely not the creator of all living things.
One of the evidence of evolution is by DNA similarities within evolved species in the prehistoric times.which is different from the creation story in the bible.
(see Lev11:20-3) YHWH definitely did not create them therefore , not us too.
Plus YHWH's poor understanding of our cosmology knowledge on our solar system orbits.
please see 'the sun moves round the earth' (Ps104:19 ;Ec1:5 ;Jos10:13) & the earth is not moving/fixed(Ps93:1 ;96:10 ;104:5 ;Chr16:30)
with a flat disc-like (Is40:22) earth ?
how about your noah's ark you expect the penguins to fly above the mountain altitude and swim below the deep sea so that they can survive in maintaining the cold temperatures and travel to Antarctica after 40 days of your nonsense flood ? i wasting my time even to reply you. it is riduclous.
Armed with this knowledge in bible ,YHWH ,a creator of the Universe ? keep dreaming….

Evil - What is evil anyways? Does Evil even exist or is it in your mind? What makes something Evil anyways? (I beilive in evil, but why do you?)

Evil in the christianity religion was created from & by your god YHWH and he is the boss of satan ,one whole evil gang. i had proved that in my past posts. in case if you don't understand ,please refer back.

We are two different people and will probably never see Eye to eye. I saw a bumper sticker the other day that said, "Jesus Loves you but I dont"... Oh, and your posts are full of hatred toward Christianity what ever you may think..

Must we be the same ? ,it will be an insult to me even to have that thought. there is no hatred over my posts ,only my research info that i had gather for over past 20 years. you are not that smart ,please don't do jump off wall deductions & conclusions. you don't have that caliber. give it up please.


Before we go any deeper, what is your understanding of Evil? Also, How do you apply your deffinition of Evil to My God, Lord Jesus Christ?

My comprehension of christian evil is what written in my past posts so…..reread them if (STILL NOT CLEAR BY NOW. GOODNESS+.
i don't apply them at all because i'M NOT christian (Oh mother of god) you are still in the dark over my posts ? till now ?….


Your problem here is that if God didnt know, then he is not God. If he Did know then he is God, but the creator of evil? This is a problem that cannot be solved. You have created a situation like asking, "Can God create a rock too heavy for him to lift"? We have no idea when God knew Satan was going to become evil, the term omniscience means infinite awareness and knolledge. Your darkness has made you focus upon Evil, but what are your thoughts on Love and Good? Your belief would have you also saying God created Love and Goodness as well. Who are you to say God will not overcome evil in order to better creation? Doesnt God who knows all things tell us Evil is going to be deafeated and Love will remain? Evil is only temporary until Jesus returns for he deafeated satan by his resurrection.

I have no problem rather is your god YHWH that have the problem , the doctrine of omniscience ,omnipotent & omnipresent is the problem therefore ,YHWH he is not god because… (please reread the red print in my past posts)
YHWH don't have to overcome evil because he is the creator of evil mind hence he made satan with his evil ways ,understand ?

"Can God create a rock too heavy for him to lift"?
this is exactly my point ,base on the doctrine ,god cannot possibly be so stupid to create that rock he cannot lift. but however ,base on the references in the bible he did create satan Is45:7 and with the omni- doctrine ,in terms of facts ,christianity god YHWH don't stand a chance.

"We have no idea when God knew Satan was going to become evil"
Look ,who's asking when ,I'm not asking when . i'm asking why ? if god is aware (infinite awareness & knowledge) of satan evil doings and there are many references to say that god actually allow satan to do what he wants and evidently a collaboration.

Do you have Kids? Have you ever told them the stove is Hot? i sure have, and every one of them touched it. Now they know Hot and had pain of the experience. Never once did my children look at me and call me evil for making the stove Hot, even though i knew they would touch it. However, they will not touch the stove again.

Same here ,if you know the stove is hot ,obviously you will prevent them to touch it. or you do something to prevent them to touch like ,remove stove ,switch off the stove or take measures that will prevent them from being burn right? there are kids after all being curious is part them and eventually they will have touch the stove ,to learn to cook ,for themselves. plus not all types of pain is good. you need to know that.
Nevertheless ,you're talking about god & satan here ,not any tom ,dick and harry. your god YHWH's omniscience his causing universal genocide here. For satan. He knew , yet he still created him not only that , YHWH collaborated with satan's evil ways too. this is so obvious. one big evil family proven already.

 

[abysslightdarkness]

Then how can anyone claim to know what God knew or did not know concerning his creation? Did he know Satan would turn on him? Did he know Adam and Eve would disobey him? Why stop there, if he knows everything, doesnt the Bible say Evil is defeated and Love wins? Who are you to say if all this wasnt worth the final outcome? (Evil defeated and Love wins)

YES GOD YHWH knows all ("the term omniscience means infinite awareness and knowledge")
Because your bible says (see Below)
Job 42:2
No thought can be with holden from thee.

Psalm44:21
For he knoweth the secrets of the heart.

Psalm139:7-8
Whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there; if I make MY BED IN HELL, behold, thou art there.

Proverbs15:3
The eyes of the Lord are in every place.

Jeremiah16:17
For mine eyes are upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes.

Jeremiah23:24
Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth?

Acts1:24
Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men

With the above in mind ,therefore ,your god YHWH who claimed the omniscience , omnipotent & omnipresent. so please stop asking how do god knows what or that…..ok? Read the Bible ,dude. Love wins of course ,because YHWH knew that you desired LOVE to win and not satan evil ways. but for every love won ,there are every evil deed paid. Your YHWH have you guys believed that love wins but the fact that YHWH collaborated with satan behind that "love".


Take birth pains of a mother. Every mom knows she will endure great pain to experiance child birth, but ever mom will tell you the Pain was worth it. Who are you to say This temperal existance of Evil is not worth the eternal future of Love and bliss?

You need to know that not all painful experience is good. the pain satan and god caused is not the same kind of pain humanly conceived just like love is not the same as compared with godly ones.
of course , no one is to judge ,but your god YHWH must be with satan evil ways that is worth the eternal "love and bliss". so to speak.

I want to thank you for strengthining my faith and giving me awareness of questions like this. Your problem is that you have not followed the conclussion of Gods Plan. If God knows all things and knew both Evil and Good would rise out of creation, then what does he say about the future? Evil will be destroyed and Good and Love will prevail for eternity after. So you can sit there and say God is Evil or created Evil, but God also created Good and Love and chose the side of Love and Good and will defeat Evil for he knows all things. 1000 years from now i will be looking back at this life and say it was all worth it.

You are welcome ,if i helped you in anyway to increase your faith on the YHWH & satan gang. Our future is very dark in terms of christianity ,so to speak. Evil will never be destroy because the biggest help satan gets is from YHWH and the real evil boss is YHWH. He created it , allowed it & he's aware of it. with this kind of god No wonder the world ends on YHWH own evil plans you can keep believing it ,the love and evil-YHWH and SATAN family. So evidently ,they're trying so hard to make others to believe such crapy stuff. I pity those who NOT know better. so sad. they had became part of the evil family.

warmest regards
thanks for reading

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This idea of satan being a manifestation of Yahweh's own mind is not the least bit unbiblical, as two different books in the Old Testament reference the same event, with one attributing the act to God, while the other attributes the act to satan.
2 Samuel 24
1 Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, "Go and take a census of Israel and Judah."
1 Chronicles 21
1 Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.
Is it so difficut to see, by reconciling the two passages, that satan is, in fact, "the anger of the LORD" (Yahweh)?

No, Satan is not the God of creation. Satan is called the god of this world of badness according to 2 Cor 4v4, and the father of the lie.-John 8v44.
Satan means resister and Devil means slanderer. They are not proper names.
So Satan, or a resister, provoked or incited David- 1Chron 21v1.
So God allowed what was David's free choice of action.

If you compare Samuel with Chronicles both accounts show that God,
not Satan, used Joab to dissuade David, but David actions show he insisted in having his own way against God's messenger.
David admitted his mistake was willful on David's part.- 2 Sam 24vs 10,17.
God sent Joab to David not Satan. King David's word prevailed against Joab or against God's warning to him through Joab.- 1 Chron 21v4.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Then how can anyone claim to know what God knew or did not know concerning his creation? Did he know Satan would turn on him? Did he know Adam and Eve would disobey him?
Acts1:24
Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men

Satan, angels and Adam and Eve were all created as free moral agents.

According to 1st Tim 2v14 Adam was not deceived but Eve was deceived...

Sure God knew their 'heart' condition, so to speak, he knew what their heart's desire was 'before' they sinned then God knew, or discerned, their 'heart' condition 'after' they willfully sinned.
-James 1vs 13-15
So, in other words, God knows our hearts at any given time. -Acts 15v8
But this does not mean one's heart is 'carved in stone', so to speak.
Ezekiel wrote [11v19; 18v31; 36v26,27] that God can give us a new heart and a new spirit taking the heart of stone to become a heart of flesh.
This is done by one's genuine repentance.
God wants or desires all to repent rather than perish or be destroyed.
-2nd Peter 3vs9,7B; Ezekiel 33v11.

1st Sam [16v7] shows God does not look upon outer appearances to the eyes, but God looks or sees the person's heart or sees the inner person.

Please notice the choice given at 1st Chron 28v9:
God searches all hearts...but 'if' one chooses to forsake God, then God will cast one off forever. That is why 2nd Chron [15v2 B] can state 'if' we seek God, he will let himself be found by you.

If one's heart was set in stone, then what would be the point of warning both the wicked and the righteous ones?
Ezekiel 3 vs18-21; 33 vs11-15

 

[jtartar]

hi all readers ,dear friends
Greetings ,Compliments of the day.
this a reply To icebud
please all rebuttals must be come with biblical references…. please do constructive rebuttals guys ,please DON'T be like iceBUD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abyss
In fact ,in china there are no historical records on the jesus during his time
So you dont believe Jesus even existed? Is that where your going?

you are a real slow learner…… or you did it purposely.


Quote:
Is this your god ? sorry i don't want this kind of god.
Abyss, No matter what you believe, evil exists. Why is it evil in the first place? If we are no different from the animals, then Evil isnt evil, its just life. Killing is just survival of the fittest. However, since you view things as Evil, this shows that you do have a moral compas. The Fact that we have morals is due to the instinct of whats Right and whats Wrong. This instinct is from God. Believe as you want...

i think you definitely never did a course on molecular biology. all animals including us are in more DNA similarity then you want to believe so …please check out DNA genetic section.
Of course evil exist ,in your christianity terms and they exist because your YHWH created it ,started it & allowed it therefore ,satan and your YHWH are in a team.

Quote:
Bottom-line your YHWH is the real ORIGINATOR of EVIL
Again, what ever you believe, Evil exists. Since you do not believe in YHWH or the God of the Bible, where do you think Evil is comming from? When I read your posts they seem angry for some reason, not sure why.

That is exactly my point you just made god look even more evil. god created evil because your god was there to create it ,start it & allowed it. therefore ,your god and satan is in a team. the ? is that clear ? i can't be as this. frankly if you still don't get it by now i suggest you redo your education.
me angry ? you must have been over sensitive. my posts are all research base has nothing to do with my emotions. so if you have a problem over posts you can get over it ok? and stop your shrink diagnosis here. seems like you need them more than me.


Quote:
please don't say he did it out of love and tests of our humankind
I find it interesting that people like yourself can bash "Christianity", but if you bash other religions its a no no. Why are you so angry towards My God and My Lord? And if Evil is your bottom line answer, then your gonna be mad at the truth no matter where you turn, for Evil does exist.

You had made god more evil again.

Quote:
i hope the rest of the readers ,you do understand that god being omniscience also means god knows all your freewill even before you start to WILL it.
Hence ,god knows the freewill of satan and therefore ,
Unfortunately god created satan; god started it ,god allows it therefore god WILL it ,& then satan did it
you seem to know alot about a God that you dont know or believe in. Im not sure what God knows myself, how could I or you for that matter.

All information from my post are research based and by inference , i don't claim to know god. you claimed i know god. you are flattering me. and stop that.

Quote:
Of course i have freewill ,just that not a christian one ,that is void of common sense ,full of ignorance and lack of the ability to conjugate ideas. Its just pathetic.
Sorry you feel that way. Thats probably how the Devil thought towards God too.

Not surprise ,because YHWH created satan and they are a team. Both know how each other thinks their evil thoughts and ways. Thats why YHWH created satan to form a evil gang to help YHWH his evil side of him.


Quote:
if the creation was perfect. Or is it ?
The Flaw of sin is upon creation. So it is growning until the day of perfection.

With your evil YHWH & his gang around most definitely 'the flaw of sin is/will be ever growing till the day of absolute sin perfection. shall i rephrase that ?

Quote:
So far i had PROVEN….
1) Your evil YHWH is a bigger devil than satan. he is the boss of satan. PROVEN
2) Your evil YHWH collaboration with satan. PROVEN
3) YOUR evil YHWH 's awareness of satan ill-will. and god agreed then allow it. PROVEN
4) your jesus is not god PROVEN
You have proven that your angry towards Christianity. No one can really know God, but since you think that you do with authority, and dont believe in him is crazy to me. You go on and on of how you know everything, even God, but yet you dont even think he exists? My favorite bible passage is, "Anyone who thinks they know everything really doesnt know much".

First of all ,i don't claim i know everything ,please stop putting words into my mouth ok? if you keep jumping into the conclusion for me and feel crazy over all these ,please go and consult a psychiatrist ,i don't want to be mean but seems like you are always jump off the topic ,say things that i did not write so …..you should consider the option.

Theres another passage that says, One could know everything about everything, but without Love he is like a loud noise and useless to everyone.

If you let your love to be blind ,same like these over here, obviously you are not only useless you are toxic too like your YHWH and satan in a team.

Quote:
pretty much of what i had typed and what you had read here is my belief. well i believe the bible is not the word of god. i should not say 'i believe' i should say i found out.
Thats not a belief? IF you dont believe in one thing, then you must believe in another.

Of course , but unfortunately my research is my belief so what you see is what you get.

Quote:
For sure i won't follow your god what a lying and fake god ,your YHWH/jesus and satan , are all in the evil gang.
You act like you have common sence, then you post things like this? If they dont exist, then they cannot lie nor be evil. Yet Evil comes from somewhere? If Evil is not Evil, then we are like the animals and everything is ok to do. Everything you see as Evil is just life and survival of the fittest. Yet you seem to believe Evil exist? Why?

i'm talking in terms of your christianity doctrine…. i need to know your bible well to be able to derive a point. really from my research your doctrine cannot stand at all its just self-destructible. whoever believe the bible is from god and YOUR YHWH is really someone without common sense

thanks for reading

abysslightdarkness,
The best I can say about your reasoning is: It is pure dereism. What you say is not an argument that you want knowledge about, but is Ignoratio Elenchi. Your whole reasoning is based on false assumptions.
First: God did not create Satan!!! God created a beautiful angel. This angel was created perfect with free will,mas is all God's intelligent creatures. The term SELFBORN is a dictionary term, you must not be familiar with.
If you are married and have a child, you procreate a baby. You then try to bring that child up in a way that he will be a decent person. If this son decides to become a hitman, you did not create a hitman. Your child was SELFBORN as a hitman. The same exactly is the relationship of God and Satan. This process is explaind at Isa 14:12-15, when likening Satan to the King of Babylon.
Also at Eze 28:13-19, comparing Satan to the King of Tyre. Here Satan is spoken of as being the Covering Cherub of the Garden of Eden. Satan was FAULTLESS in his ways, from the time he was created until unrighteousness was found in him. Sataqn was created so beautiful that he started desiring worship that belonged only to God. Because of this he became imperfect and caused Adam and Eve to sin against God and follow him, rebelling against God. He became the SELFBORN SATAN.
Another false ratiocination is about Omniscience, which means that God knows everything. God, indeed knows everything, but does He know everything that has not even happened??? Really there is nothing to know, if it has not happened. There is Biblical proof that God CAN look into the future, but He can also refrain from looking into the future.
According to God's attitude about the condition of the world in Noah's day, God had not looked into the future, for He said that He felt REGRET and hurt in His heart,over the conditions, Gen 6:6-8,11-13. If God had known from the beginning how the world was going to get so bad, He would not have felt regret!!
At the beginning od mans creation, God warned Adam about eating from the trree of knowledge. This is where the sin of mankind started. Why would God warn Adam if He KNEW that he was going to rebell against Him. Just the opposite was true, God did no want mankind to rebell, so He gave them kindly advice, there and also to Cain, Gen 4:2-8. This would be hypocritical if God had planned these things.
Exctly opposite is the truth, from your reasoning. God is the one who says that He is going to make all the things that are wrong on earth right again, Rev 21:3,4, The fact is: immediately after Adam's sin God gave a prophecy about the end of Satan and his SEED, and about the Kingdom which will be ruled over by Jesus, The Prince of Peace, Gen 3:15, Isa 9:6,7.
Try to reason on this thought: Who is man to question God, The Almighty, Job 40:2. God is perfect in all His ways, Deut 32:4,5. God does NO unrighteousness, Job 34:10,12. Egocentric Perdicament, 1Cor 8:2.

 

[gzusfrk]

Is it 3 Gods in 1?
God-the-Father, God-the-Son, and God-the-Ghost?

Did Jesus HAVE a God?

Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. 1 John 2:23

 

[icebuddy]

DNA is matter; there are attached proteins in the spiral strands they have mass and they tells us about the biological building blocks of living things.

Are you saying theres NO information inside DNA? Dont forget that there must be a language code and Information to fit the Code. We can all pull letters from a box and we might spell a word, but that word means nothing without a language system. DNA didnt just figure itself out on its own, which leads to intelligence anyways, but a language system was put in place, a code, a system, what ever you want to call it. The Language system points directly to a intelligent creator.

If you are an Evolutionist, thats psudo-science. Evolution theory goes against science itself.(Including Biology)

please read up before you further embarrass yourself because of that please don't mislead the public of wrong info that is the lowest action ;bullying those who are not so informed ?

Your posts seem to bully not mine. Everyone here can see the truth for themselves.

he is absolutely not the creator of all living things.

Whats your answer? At least I have an answer.

it will be an insult to me even to have that thought. there is no hatred over my posts

your posts are full of Hate. Especialy towards Me and My Lord Jesus Christ. You dont reason with anybody. You are like a loud noise that no one understands. Without Love we are all useless, including myself.

Evil vs Good

Abyss, If God created everything and out of his creation Evil arose with Good. How can you say God is Evil if his eternal plan is to wipe out Evil and have Good remain? IF God truely does know the end from the beginning then in his End result only Good Exists.

in Love, (Not Hate, Im more of a comic)
Tom

 

[smokydot]

Is it 3 Gods in 1?
God-the-Father, God-the-Son, and God-the-Ghost?

The Bible reveals that there is one, and only one, God.
The Bible reveals three divine persons.

Three Gods contradict divine revelation and, therefore, cannot be true.

John 1:1-3 reveals that the Word is God, and the Word became flesh in Jesus of Nazareth.
That gives Jesus of Nazareth two natures in one being: divine and human.

Jesus referred to the Holy Spirit as a person, "he" (not "she" which is the personal pronoun for a non-person).

That's three divine persons in one being--the one, and only one, God.

Therein is the incomprehensibiliity.
In material reality, three persons require three beings. In non-material reality, they do not.
In material reality, two natures require two beings. In non-material reality, a non-material nature (divine) can co-exist with a material nature (human) in a material being (human).

Did Jesus HAVE a God?

Yes, Jesus in his human nature had a God. His name is Father.
But Jesus in his divine nature of the Godhead has only a divine Father.

 

[jtartar]

Is it 3 Gods in 1?
God-the-Father, God-the-Son, and God-the-Ghost?

Did Jesus HAVE a God?

theMadJW,
Several time in the Holy Scriptures it is stated that the Father in heaven was Jesus' God and Father. Father means the one causing his birth, Prov 23:22. Jesus even says that he lives because of the Father, John 6:57. John 20:17,quotes Jesus as saying that he was going back to heaven to The disciples Father and his Father, and the disciples God and his God. Jesus never lied, 1Pet 2:22, Heb 4:15.
At Eph 1:3, Col 1:3, 2Cor 1:3, state that God is the God and Father of our LORD Jesus Christ.
At Phil 2:11, we are told that Jesus is LORD, to the Glory of GOD, the Father.
The Hebrew Scriptures shed much light on who the True God is, that is mentioned by Jesus at John 17:3, and by Paul at 1Cor 8:5,6, Eph 4:5,6.
First, we must recognize that God's PROPER NAME is, in Hebrew YHWH or JHVH. This name is pronounced Jehovah, for many centuries, even though no one can be certain of the exact pronunciation. This name was inspired by God to be written in His word over 7,000 times. In many translations today, every place where the Titles GOD, and LORD are in ALL capitals, the ORIGINAL SCRIPTURES said YHWH, JEHOVAH.
Many of the aformentioned scriptures mention the Lord Jesus and the God, in the same scripture. Our lord Jesus is the SON, GOD, Jehovah, is the God and Father of Jesus.
Lets consider some scriptures that make it very plain that God is different from ANYONE, Jere 10:6, which says: In NO WAY is there anyone like you O Jehovah.
Isaiah 42:8, says : I am Jehovah, that is my Name, and to NO ONE shall I give my own Glory.
The Holy Spirit is the force that God uses to accomplish His will. His spirit can do a myriad of things, whatever God wants it to do. Acts 2:1-4 the disciples became FILLED with the Holy Spirit. NOT one of a trinity!!!
At Acts 10:44, the Holy Spirit FELL upon all those hearing Peter.
At 1Corinthians chapters 12-14 we see many ways the spirit acts, depending on what God wants it to accomplish, but it is all the same spirit, 1Cor 12:4,8,9,11.
A certain proof that Jesus is not Jehovah is shown at Dan 7:13,14, where Jehovah is sitting onb His throne and Jesus is brought in before Him. The same is true at Rev 5:6-8, where again Jehovah is sitting on His throne and Jesus comes and takes a scroll out of His hand. TWO PEOPLE!!!
.
Ps 148:13, says Jehovah's name ALONE is unreachably high.
Ps 86:8,10, which says : There is NONE like you among the gods. You are God, you ALONE.
Ps 89:6,7, says: Who in the skies can be compared to Jehovah? Especially notice verse 7, which says: God is to be held in AWE among the intimate group of Holy Ones. He is FEARINSPIRING over all those who are round about Him.
Ps 95:3, Jehovah is a great God, and a Great KING over ALL other Gods.
Ps 96:4 Jehovah is fearinspiring over ALL other gods.
Ps 97:9, which says: You are very high in your ascent over all other gods.
At Ex 6:3, and Rev 15:3 we are told that God is King of eternity, THE ALMIGHTY GOD. There can only be ONE ALMIGHTY!!! The BIble tells us that Jesus is a mighty god, but not THE ALMIGHTY, Isa 9:6,7.
Deut 6:4 says : Jehovah our God is ONE GOD or ONE JEHOVAH.
Gal 3:20 says that God is only ONE.
Zech 14:9 says : In that day Jehovah will PROVE to be ONE, and His name ONE.

 

[sojourner]

theMadJW,
Several time in the Holy Scriptures it is stated that the Father in heaven was Jesus' God and Father. Father means the one causing his birth, Prov 23:22. Jesus even says that he lives because of the Father, John 6:57. John 20:17,quotes Jesus as saying that he was going back to heaven to The disciples Father and his Father, and the disciples God and his God. Jesus never lied, 1Pet 2:22, Heb 4:15.
At Eph 1:3, Col 1:3, 2Cor 1:3, state that God is the God and Father of our LORD Jesus Christ.
At Phil 2:11, we are told that Jesus is LORD, to the Glory of GOD, the Father.
The Hebrew Scriptures shed much light on who the True God is, that is mentioned by Jesus at John 17:3, and by Paul at 1Cor 8:5,6, Eph 4:5,6.
First, we must recognize that God's PROPER NAME is, in Hebrew YHWH or JHVH. This name is pronounced Jehovah, for many centuries, even though no one can be certain of the exact pronunciation. This name was inspired by God to be written in His word over 7,000 times. In many translations today, every place where the Titles GOD, and LORD are in ALL capitals, the ORIGINAL SCRIPTURES said YHWH, JEHOVAH.
Many of the aformentioned scriptures mention the Lord Jesus and the God, in the same scripture. Our lord Jesus is the SON, GOD, Jehovah, is the God and Father of Jesus.
Lets consider some scriptures that make it very plain that God is different from ANYONE, Jere 10:6, which says: In NO WAY is there anyone like you O Jehovah.
Isaiah 42:8, says : I am Jehovah, that is my Name, and to NO ONE shall I give my own Glory.
The Holy Spirit is the force that God uses to accomplish His will. His spirit can do a myriad of things, whatever God wants it to do. Acts 2:1-4 the disciples became FILLED with the Holy Spirit. NOT one of a trinity!!!
At Acts 10:44, the Holy Spirit FELL upon all those hearing Peter.
At 1Corinthians chapters 12-14 we see many ways the spirit acts, depending on what God wants it to accomplish, but it is all the same spirit, 1Cor 12:4,8,9,11.
A certain proof that Jesus is not Jehovah is shown at Dan 7:13,14, where Jehovah is sitting onb His throne and Jesus is brought in before Him. The same is true at Rev 5:6-8, where again Jehovah is sitting on His throne and Jesus comes and takes a scroll out of His hand. TWO PEOPLE!!!
.
Ps 148:13, says Jehovah's name ALONE is unreachably high.
Ps 86:8,10, which says : There is NONE like you among the gods. You are God, you ALONE.
Ps 89:6,7, says: Who in the skies can be compared to Jehovah? Especially notice verse 7, which says: God is to be held in AWE among the intimate group of Holy Ones. He is FEARINSPIRING over all those who are round about Him.
Ps 95:3, Jehovah is a great God, and a Great KING over ALL other Gods.
Ps 96:4 Jehovah is fearinspiring over ALL other gods.
Ps 97:9, which says: You are very high in your ascent over all other gods.
At Ex 6:3, and Rev 15:3 we are told that God is King of eternity, THE ALMIGHTY GOD. There can only be ONE ALMIGHTY!!! The BIble tells us that Jesus is a mighty god, but not THE ALMIGHTY, Isa 9:6,7.
Deut 6:4 says : Jehovah our God is ONE GOD or ONE JEHOVAH.
Gal 3:20 says that God is only ONE.
Zech 14:9 says : In that day Jehovah will PROVE to be ONE, and His name ONE.

Mush. Complete mush that, exegetically, does not support your position in the least.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Dies Solis, venerable day of the Sun. This was all just a decree to worship the sun god, Sol Invictus. It was Roman law and religion and Constantine was a sun worshipper from the beginning. This is the only agenda he had.This law did not pertain to so called christians or Hebrews. It was a Roman law for Romans on worshipping the sun god.

Worshiping the Sun.

Worshiping the Son.

Hmmmmm.....Sounds like Christianity all the way. Is this why they don't keep Saturday Sabbath as a holy day but gather on "Sunday" and worship the "Son".....hmmmm

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Worshiping the Sun.
Worshiping the Son.
Hmmmmm.....Sounds like Christianity all the way. Is this why they don't keep Saturday Sabbath as a holy day but gather on "Sunday" and worship the "Son".....hmmmm

Sunday worship started with Constantine and not found in Scripture.
Saturday Sabbath ended with the Mosaic law.

Ezekiel warned ancient Jerusalem because they took up Sun worship right in Jerusalem and its temple that God's sword would be unsheathed upon Jerusalem.
As in the past God used the political/military world as his 'sword' so too once again God will use the world's political/military arm of the law to rid the world of its false religious sector [including so-called Christians- Matt 7v21-23] that have run afoul playing false to him.
-Rev 17v2; 18v7,8

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The Bible reveals that there is one, and only one, God.
The Bible reveals three divine persons.
Three Gods contradict divine revelation and, therefore, cannot be true.
John 1:1-3 reveals that the Word is God, and the Word became flesh in Jesus of Nazareth.
That gives Jesus of Nazareth two natures in one being: divine and human.
Jesus referred to the Holy Spirit as a person, "he" (not "she" which is the personal pronoun for a non-person).
That's three divine persons in one being--the one, and only one, God.
Therein is the incomprehensibiliity.
In material reality, three persons require three beings. In non-material reality, they do not.
In material reality, two natures require two beings. In non-material reality, a non-material nature (divine) can co-exist with a material nature (human) in a material being (human).
Yes, Jesus in his human nature had a God. His name is Father.
But Jesus in his divine nature of the Godhead has only a divine Father.

Doesn't Jesus in his 'divine' nature have more than a divine Father because at Revelation the 'divine Jesus' has a God over him- Rev 3v12.

Why does Jesus in his 'divine nature' still think he is the Son of God?
-Rev 2v18. After six decades in heaven shouldn't Jesus know who he is?

Isn't 'Father' a title and not a personal name? Why else would Jesus say his Father's name should be hallowed?______ Or why would Jesus manifest and declare his Father's name- John 17 vs6,26; Psalm 83v18 KJV.

Since the same Greek grammar rules applies at John 1vs1-3 and Acts 28v6B,
then why is there the letter 'a' at Acts 28v6 b and not John 1v1?
Either the 'a' belongs at 'both' places or it does not.

How does personification prove personality? Jesus personalized the holy spirit as a helper or comforter. [Greek is the masculine substantive parakletos]
John's helper/comforter aspect of using masculine personal pronouns is in the same context as when pneuma [Greek] is used.
John used that neuter pronoun to refer to the holy spirit with pneuma itself being neuter.
Thus we have John's use of the masculine personal pronoun in connection with parakletos as an example of John conforming to Greek grammar rules and not an expression of doctrine. -John 14vs16,17; 16vs7,8.

Can one person be inside of another? Did Moses have three [one]persons inside of him? -Isaiah 63v11. Was God's person upon a person at Isaiah 59v21?

Were the people of Acts 2v4 all filled with three [one] persons at the same time?

For three[one] persons then why are there two [2] thrones at Rev 3v21?
Shouldn't there be either three thrones or just one throne not two thrones?

 

[smokydot]

Doesn't Jesus in his 'divine' nature have more than a divine Father because at Revelation the 'divine Jesus' has a God over him- Rev 3v12.

Jesus is never just one or the other. He is always both human and divine.
Some reported facts about him refer to his human nature, others refer to his divine nature, others refer to both. For example,

He was created--refers to his human nature, not to his divine nature.
He forgives sin--refers to his divine nature (Matt 9:2-6), not his human nature.
He is the only begotten Son of God--refers to both natures.

Why does Jesus in his 'divine nature' still think he is the Son of God?
-Rev 2v18. After six decades in heaven shouldn't Jesus know who he is?

That he is the only begotten Son of God is true of both natures, human and divine.

Isn't 'Father' a title and not a personal name? Why else would Jesus say his Father's name should be hallowed?______ Or why would Jesus manifest and declare his Father's name- John 17 vs6,26; Psalm 83v18 KJV"

"Father" is a personal name in the relationship of the Trinity, and it applies to both natures of the Son, human and divine.
A "name" in ancient times was not just an appellation, it summed up an individual's whole person.
The "name" of God is not equivalent to his personal name, Father.

Since the same Greek grammar rules applies at John 1vs1-3 and Acts 28v6B,
then why is there the letter 'a' at Acts 28v6 b and not John 1v1?
Either the 'a' belongs at 'both' places or it does not.

The people of Acts 28:6b were pagans. They believed in more than one god. They called Paul a god in accordance with their belief.
John was not a pagan. He believed in the one God to which the Scriptures testify.
To the pagans in Acts 28:6b, Paul was a god.
To John, Jesus is God, the one and only.

How does personification prove personality? Jesus personalized the holy spirit as a helper or comforter. [Greek is the masculine substantive parakletos]
John's helper/comforter aspect of using masculine personal pronouns is in the same context as when pneuma [Greek] is used.
John used that neuter pronoun to refer to the holy spirit with pneuma itself being neuter.
Thus we have John's use of the masculine personal pronoun in connection with parakletos as an example of John conforming to Greek grammar rules and not an expression of doctrine. -John 14vs16,17; 16vs7,8.

By "neuter" I take that you mean without gender. We use personal prounous and neuters to refer to persons frequently.
He (personal pronoun) is a human (neuter).
She (personal pronoun) is a parent (neuter).
The neuter form does not nullify the personal form. That the personal form and the neuter form are used in the same context to refer to the Holy Spirit does not nullify the personal form.
He (personal pronoun, denoting the Holy Spirit) is the breath (neuter) of God.

Can one person be inside of another? Did Moses have three [one]persons inside of him? -Isaiah 63v11. Was God's person upon a person at Isaiah 59v21?

Were the people of Acts 2v4 all filled with three [one] persons at the same time?

Yes, where the Spirit is, the Trinity is.
But remember, this is non-material reality, these are spirits, they do not occupy space.
Different divine persons are specifically named usually according to their operation within the Trinity: the Father decrees, the Son executes, and the Holy Spirit applies.

And the Holy Spirit can be upon one for power, as well as within one for application of Jesus' redemption and transformation.

For three[one] persons then why are there two [2] thrones at Rev 3v21?
Shouldn't there be either three thrones or just one throne not two thrones?

The subject matter is the awarding, to the those who overcome, a seat on the Son's throne, just as for overcoming the Son was awarded a seat on the Father's throne.
That does not deny or exlude other thrones.

 

[abysslightdarkness]

hi all readers ,dear friends
Greetings ,Compliments of the day.
this a reply To jtartar & ICEbudd

Firstly ,please reread my biblical references in my last posts

Job 42:2
No thought can be withholden from thee.
Psalm 44:21
For he knoweth the secrets of the heart.
Psalm 139:7-8
Whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there; if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Proverbs 15:3
The eyes of the Lord are in every place.
Jeremiah 16:17
For mine eyes are upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes.
Jeremiah 23:24
Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth?
Acts 1:24
Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men

They are so proved of YHWH's omniscients.

Another false ratiocination is about Omniscience, which means that God knows everything. God, indeed knows everything, but does He know everything that has not even happened??? Really there is nothing to know, if it has not happened. There is Biblical proof that God CAN look into the future, but He can also refrain from looking into the future.

"There is nothing in future to know" because your dino brain not capable of being omniscience so please give yourself a break.
what makes you think that YHWH did not/had not interfere with the present ,past & future ? and why should YHWH REFRAIN FROM LOOKING AT THe FUTURE ? & which future your YHWH must refrain from looking at ? YOURS? what makes so sure where are your referencing here ?
with my the above-mentioned verses showed that your YHWH is really omnipotent.

I understand the point that you are saying that "god created a beautiful angle but because this angle later had became evil and bad so YHWH did not created the evil side of him"
BUT see
Isa 45:7 ;Pro15:3, The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good. & Gen 1:1
jtartar your argument stand point whispers and vaporized into nothingness

To Icebud & jtartar
If God created the universe Gen 1:1 ,if satan/a beautiful angel is considered in the universe then obviously ,your YHWH must had created him and his evil ways and mind too. even before satan turn evil which god knew already. please don't explain it away ,you just can't because that verse is staring at you when you open the first PAGE in the bible. to make satan not a creation of YHWH you need to make satan out of this universe that means satan a non-existence. if not ,satan was in the universe for good, for extra references ,i can really provide…

Armed with these verses in mind and then compare to the notions in your biblical references like
Isa 14:12-15 ;Eze 28:13-19 ;Gen 6:6-8,11-13 ;Gen 4:2-8.
and your utterly rubbish thinking behind those verses you referenced.

They are completely in contradictions and therefore self-destructed your view point. Take note all the referencing are taken out from the bible ,the same source. & you had just added to the pilling of self-contradictions verses in the bible. thanks .As usual…that would be ,you had just self-destructed your stand point. For all the bible believers.
this shows the bible is definitely not written by a god i thank you.

YOU ARE the weakest LINK ,NEXT

The same exactly is the relationship of God and Satan. This process is explaind at Isa 14:12-15, when likening Satan to the King of Babylon.

Is 14:12-13
thanks for mentioning this verse i am about bring it out for discussion. let me explain why is not referring to satan.
this verse you need look in the oldest dead sea scroll 4QIsa which is the oldest know copy of the Isa.

‎מִשָּׁמַ֖יִם הֵילֵ֣לבֶּן־שָׁ֑חר mi·sha·ma·yim hei·le ben-sha·char;

'Day star & Dawn' in Hebrew are respectively 'hei·le' and 'sha·cha' ,they are Canaanite deities. like wise in verse 13 and 14
the elements of heaven is from Ugaritic myth
the word 'north' in Hebrew is 'zaphon' meaning Mt. Zaphon ,the Ugaritic home of the gods.
"the mount of assembly" was referred to the assembled of the Canaanite gods.
In any case ,the passage Is 14:12-13 is not and never intended to referred to satan.

The substitution of the Lucifer (in latin means 'light bearer' ,meaning 'Venus as the morning star') for 'day star' and then later association for satan appears to be because of the Vulgate translation which gave a Latin title for 'Venus' as the morning star and used the association as pagan symbol to identify it to Satan. In other words ,Lucifer was added to the mix in the early days of christian ascendancy between 300-400AD.

Try to reason on this thought: Who is man to question God, The Almighty, Job 40:2. God is perfect in all His ways, Deut 32:4,5. God does NO unrighteousness, Job 34:10,12. Egocentric Perdicament, 1Cor 8:2.

who am i to question god ? well i am the one who read the bible just like you who ask the same questions as you are now because i read the the verses i referenced above and i compare with the ones you referenced obviously they are in contradictions on the concepts behind those verses from the same source ,the bible.

God does NO unrighteousness, Job 34:10,12

Think again see below

NUM 31:17, *Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18 *But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

LEV 26:13, I am the LORD your God, ... 16 I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. 17 And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you. 18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins
[SEE ALSO: LEV 26:7-8; NUM 5:1-3; DEU 20:16-17; JOS 10:40; JUDG 14:19; EZE 9:5-7]

well the bible & you are game over ,YHWH cannot even be righteous as i said satan and YHWH are of the same gang armed with my above references.

warmest regards
thanks for reading

 

[icebuddy]

If God created the universe Gen 1:1 ,if satan/a beautiful angel is considered in the universe then obviously ,your YHWH must had created him and his evil ways and mind too. even before satan turn evil which god knew already. please don't explain it away ,you just can't because that verse is staring at you when you open the first PAGE in the bible. to make satan not a creation of YHWH you need to make satan out of this universe that means satan a non-existence. if not ,satan was in the universe for good, for extra references ,i can really provide…

Abyss,
It is clear to me that your mind is made up without any chance of reasoning. You act as if you know everything about God and what was going on durring creation. Truth is, we dont know everything and God is far smarter and better than me and my brain. For me to sit here and explain away Gods thoughts are crazy and you should at least understand that. What I do know is that God didnt create robots and he created a situation where both Good and Evil could be a choice. Lets say he knows everything, that doesnt mean he chose it for us. Me make the choices and pick our paths in life, God just knows what choices you are making and what paths you are going down.

Take Childbirth for example, why have kids if you know they are just gonna die? Are we like the very God you hate? Are we walking into Death and destruction willingly? Why do we "create" if death is the only outcome. Look yourself in the mirror for you have made yourself the very one you have grown to hate.

Thank God for Jesus Christ! You can play your mind games, but even you dont know for sure what God was thinking, i know I dont. You can speculate, but thats all you can do. As for me, God is Good and like anything else, how can we know what Good is without evil. Evil is a choice and Good is a choice, what do you chose?

In Love,
tom