Blackheart
Active Member
Now how do you get that to mean that Jesus is saying he is God? Isnt he simply explaining that he has been around since before Abraham (which is no mystery to me). Is this the best you have?
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Who IS "The Only TRUE God"- as Jesus put it?
- Thread starter theMadJW
- Start date
Now how do you get that to mean that Jesus is saying he is God? Isnt he simply explaining that he has been around since before Abraham (which is no mystery to me). Is this the best you have?
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.Dude... you have no idea who you messing with...
Nah. But I went down this three-day journey; like five fat pages, this guy wanted to tell me about tense in Hebrew... that guy got lumped up... you wanna get lumped up? :biglaugh:
Nah... but after all that, you'd have to come over to my house with a procession of wizened ol' Jews... get me to think otherwise.
This is nit-pick, I don't see where we're addressing some serious error; and neither of us are any kinda lost... so, don't mind the jocularity.
There's more than a shred of evidence, can't threaten me with sin, and; come on, do I gotta go 1:26 on ya?
Let us create man in our image?
You know where that comes from, don't ya? It comes - not from gods - but from god being so big, it is as if, a multitude... so, you're gonna tell me, god is gonna allow for his prophets to speak of him as plurality through an aspect of grammar for emphasis; then get uptight when it's all father/son/holy spirit later on?
No. Especially when one knows the real deal - that ambiguity is merely an artifact of mortality.
Besides, that comes outta the Koran. Say not, three...
"For many are called, but few are chosen."
Before Beri**** bara, there was "Elohim ET"
So the sum of all his parts, God is one, the only Elohim!
Teach trinity at your own risk!
You and I are just two grains of sand. Not much compared to the enormity of GOD.
search the scriptures
Member
"I know, I'm gonna trust the Word of God. "Besides me there is no other god." Hashem speaking."
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
in the beginning was God. and God was with the word, and God was the word.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ
Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
IF you beleive all 66books of the bible, jesus is a part of the Godhead. there is one Lord, one God (eph 4:5) throughout the bible.
Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
in revelation 4:8 he who is worshipped is called Lord. biblically there is one lord. who is that?
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Luk 16:13No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
in the beginning was God. and God was with the word, and God was the word.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ
Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
IF you beleive all 66books of the bible, jesus is a part of the Godhead. there is one Lord, one God (eph 4:5) throughout the bible.
Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
in revelation 4:8 he who is worshipped is called Lord. biblically there is one lord. who is that?
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Luk 16:13No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.
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ellenjanuary
Well-Known Member
More than enough.
I ain't trying to convince you; I was kinda puzzled. You manifest on that other thread talking about I AM like you know god, then come over here questioning the presentation of Jesus as god... you don't see the parallel?
But John 8 ends with a group of Jews confronting Jesus. You can tell they are trying to get Jesus to speak as if he is claiming to be god. They get themselves pretty worked up, but Jesus is precise in his speech. Until her recites 8:58. That's when the stones start flying. Why I think it is argument enough, because it ain't me saying he is claiming to be god; it is his own words heard by his contemporaries.
And there's more evidence. Rolling up the troopers in the garden with the power of his voice comes to mind. That is a different aspect of power than the others he had used, one that suggests his divine nature.
ellenjanuary
Well-Known Member
DavyCrocket2003
Well-Known Member
Here is an interesting question, why does it matter? I'm not claiming I don't care, but what affect does belief or lack of belief in the Trinity have? How does it relate to the big picture. Why in this regard does it matter if we have correct or incorrect beliefs?
search the scriptures
Member
"Here is an interesting question, why does it matter? I'm not claiming I don't care, but what affect does belief or lack of belief in the Trinity have? How does it relate to the big picture. Why in this regard does it matter if we have correct or incorrect beliefs?"
if jesus is God and you beleive he is not, you are beleiving in a different jesus
2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him
if you are beleiving in another jesus, he cannot save.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
if jesus is God and you beleive he is not, you are beleiving in a different jesus
2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him
if you are beleiving in another jesus, he cannot save.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
DavyCrocket2003
Well-Known Member
So, do you think that if person A held to the trinity, and person B did not, but both worshiped God and followed the commandments and sought to serve others all their life, one would be saved, and the other would not? What would happen?
ellenjanuary
Well-Known Member
Why does it matter if we have correct or incorrect beliefs?!?! As long as you're not knee-deep in a nest of Trinitarians, with knives; you need not trinity. And these other guys... I don't know if they are espousing a sincere belief, pounding a pulpit, or have a genuine fear. As far as I know, there ain't nothing wrong with worshiping a divine Jesus; these others are a little more dogmatic. Having "correct" beliefs make things easier for everybody; by that I mean knowing what those beliefs actually say, and how they say it in alignment with one's integrity. Then, these debates are either a way to grow in spiritual maturity; or a way to pass the time in pleasant bicker.
Having "incorrect" beliefs lead to anxiety and cause confusion. Then you have a debate like this, where everybody in unsatisfied; where core issues linger in darkened corners, add weight to the coming days.
But the only way for one to know whether or not one's beliefs are correct or incorrect is to know them. We can debate all day long; but I cannot correct your incorrect beliefs, you cannot correct mine. Each of us, ourselves, must know the integrity of our beliefs, and develop them accordingly.
DavyCrocket2003
Well-Known Member
Having "correct" beliefs make things easier for everybody; by that I mean knowing what those beliefs actually say, and how they say it in alignment with one's integrity. Then, these debates are either a way to grow in spiritual maturity; or a way to pass the time in pleasant bicker.
Having "incorrect" beliefs lead to anxiety and cause confusion. Then you have a debate like this, where everybody in unsatisfied; where core issues linger in darkened corners, add weight to the coming days.
But the only way for one to know whether or not one's beliefs are correct or incorrect is to know them. We can debate all day long; but I cannot correct your incorrect beliefs, you cannot correct mine. Each of us, ourselves, must know the integrity of our beliefs, and develop them accordingly.
Yeah, I mean, I'm all for correct beliefs and all. But I just have this feeling that we're arguing in circles. Is anyone actually learning anything? Is anyone actually examining their beliefs? Are we actually THINKING? Sometimes I feel like we're a bunch of robots on here, playing at intelligent discussion.
ellenjanuary
Well-Known Member
You need some Holy Spirit... and maybe some unholy spirits.
If you keep your beliefs high and tight, you'll always learn something; even if that something is just that the rest of us are a bunch of stiffs.
search the scriptures
Member
daveycrocket2003: "So, do you think that if person A held to the trinity, and person B did not, but both worshiped God and followed the commandments and sought to serve others all their life, one would be saved, and the other would not? What would happen?"
doing commandments and worshiping God does not save you.
If the trinity is God then is person B worshiping God?
to be saved you must trust in the one jesus christ. is person B trusting in the same jesus?
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
doing commandments and worshiping God does not save you.
If the trinity is God then is person B worshiping God?
to be saved you must trust in the one jesus christ. is person B trusting in the same jesus?
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
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I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.( Y H V H )
Besides Y H V H there is no savior.
Yeshua is sent in the name of Y H V H to live the law and die as the Lamb of God.
The Counseler was sent in the name of Yeshua for all to know the "word of God"
paint the Lambs blood on your doorposts and have everlasting life.
For those who believe Yeshua is God, He spoke the words of Jn5:24! (word of God)
who are you gonna believe?
Believe both, I do.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
it actually matters quite a bit
Gods law is that his worshipers do not give their devotion to any other gods. The first commandment is
Exodus 20:2 3 You must not have any other gods against my face. 4 You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or that is on the earth underneath or that is in the waters under the earth. 5 You must not bow down to them nor be induced to serve them, because I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion"
by elevating Jesus to the position of God Almighty, trinitarians are in fact breaking Gods law about idolatry. this was a sin punishable by death.
So it is a very serious matter to worship Jesus as if he is the only true God. Jesus is a servant of God...but trinitarians have made him their god and in doing so they are not really worshiping God Almighty.
ellenjanuary
Well-Known Member
Come on, now... are you speaking for god, or are you speaking for religion? And have you no respect for your own idolatry?
Jesus is not "the servant of god," Jesus is "the lens of resolution to god" in the mortal aspect. I've never seen nobody, elevate Jesus to God Almighty; but I see everybody who comes to god, comes to god on their own terms. Not in the sense of, "OK, god; buy me a Mercedes, I'm your man;" but in the sense of, "There ain't no Gwynnie, get in the way of no god."
In the general sense; in the personal sense, I'm not thinking of Pegg, letting words getting in the way of god. I'm thinking about drinking beer, arguing because I'm argumentative, and sharing understanding as a matter of compassion rather than compunction. If there was a trinitarian 'round here; needing a berating, then I'd berate...
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
Come on, now... are you speaking for god, or are you speaking for religion? And have you no respect for your own idolatry?
i dont need to speak for God, the bible does that job perfectly well
elevating Jesus to the status of God is exactly what the trinity doctrine does. almost all christians believe him to BE God.
Thats a shame because Jehovah is the one Jesus was leading people to, but they dont know Jehovah at all. Im sure that Jesus is saddened by that fact.
compassion is good
ninerbuff
godless wonder
So all you have to do is believe and there's no condemnation? Or is there a catch? Apparently you have to do some extra **** too.
Gaura Priya
IRL
Jesus reiterated the Oneness of God, in the same way that Muhammad had called upon the One God, and Guru Nanak, and Baha'u'llah, and all the Messengers of the Past.
Although KJV does not say servant at Acts 3 vs13,26; 4 vs27,30
The Greek uses a word to connect to 'boy' not as in 'child' as KJV uses,
but 'boy' as in: servant.
If you are doing the 'will' of another, aren't you serving another's wishes?
Jesus used his will to do [serve] his Father's will.
-Matt 26v39; Luke 22v43; John 4v34; 5v30; 6v38