Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

[Trailblazer]

But we have to consider the references to the OT prophecies also, Jesus is referring to Himself via Daniel 9 and etc.

Jesus did not refer to Himself in the OT because Jesus did not write the OT or speak in it. Christians try to go back to the OT and claim the prophecies for the Messiah are about Jesus, but the problem with that is that Jesus did not fulfill any prophecies for the Messiah of the end times which is the Messianic Age.

He will return and you will see Him no more in a weak body of death but in a glorified body.

You can believe that if you want to, we all have beliefs.

Christians have been saying that Jesus will return for centuries but still no Jesus, even though the Bible prophecies for the return of Christ have all been fulfilled, as demonstrated in the book entitled Thief in the Night by William Sears .

Logically speaking, since these Bible prophecies have already been fulfilled, they cannot be re-fulfilled, since they are specific to the one man who fulfilled them.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Descending from heaven upon the clouds means that the spirit of Jesus, the Christ Spirit, will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God and will appear in the form of the human being. Though delivered from the womb of Mary, Jesus in reality descended from the heaven of the will of God. I believe that Baha’u’llah descended in like manner, from the heaven of the will of God.

Trailblazer, do you mean that Bahaollah's birth also was immaculate, born of a virgin mother, after the Ghost had breathed into his mother? But Bahaollah was the third born of his mother. How come the Ghost breathed into a woman who was not a virgin?

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus speaks in many places about “son of man”, for example that son of man will be risen from death and many other things that fit to Jesus. That is why I think it is about him in every case.

I believe that the Son of man was Jesus and that Baha'u'llah was the return if the Son of man, because Baha'u'llah was the return of the Christ Spirit in another man who was like the Son of man.

Daniel 7:13-14 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

To explain in brief, I believe that ‘Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven’ means that the return of the Christ Spirit promised in the Bible will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God, and will appear in the form of a human being. The term “heaven” means loftiness and exaltation. Although Jesus was delivered from the womb of His mother, in reality He descended from the heaven of the will of God. Though dwelling on this earth, His true habitation was the realms above. While walking among mortals on earth, Jesus soared in the heaven of the divine presence.

Baha’u’llah explained the meaning of clouds in The Kitáb-i-Íqán. The term “clouds” as used in the Bible means those things that cloud our judgment and prevent us from seeing what is really there. Just like the physical clouds prevent the eyes of men from beholding the sun, the desires of men hindered men from recognizing the return of Christ.

To further explain the meaning of clouds, Baha’is believe that the term “clouds” as used in the Bible means those things that are contrary to the ways and desires of men. They signify, in one sense, the annulment of laws, the abrogation of former Dispensations, the repeal of rituals and customs current among men. In another sense, they mean the appearance of a Manifestation of God in the image of mortal man, with such human limitations as eating and drinking, poverty and riches, sleeping and waking, and such other things as cast doubt in the minds of men, and cause them to turn away. These “veils” to recognition of a Manifestation of God are symbolically referred to as “clouds.” Just like the physical clouds prevent the eyes of men from beholding the sun, these things hinder the souls of men from recognizing the light of the Manifestation of God.

Thus I believe that the meaning of clouds is symbolic, not literal. Their judgment was clouded. Christians were looking for the same man Jesus in the same body that resurrected and ascended to appear in the actual physical clouds in the sky with power and great glory, trumpets and angels, but when that did not happen that way they rejected Baha’u’llah.

 

[Trailblazer]

Trailblazer, do you mean that Bahaollah's birth also was immaculate, born of a virgin mother, after the Ghost had breathed into his mother? But Bahaollah was the third born of his mother. How come the Ghost breathed into a woman who was not a virgin?

No, Baha'u'llah was not born of a virgin mother and He was not conceived of the Holy Spirit. Only Jesus came into the world that way. The official Baha'i position on the Virgin Birth is as follows:

"First regarding the birth of Jesus Christ. In light of what Bahá’u’lláh and ‘Abdu’l-Bahá have stated concerning this subject it is evident that Jesus came into this world through the direct intervention of the Holy Spirit, and that consequently His birth was quite miraculous. This is an established fact, and the friends need not feel at all surprised, as the belief in the possibility of miracles has never been rejected in the Teachings. Their importance, however, has been minimized."

(From a letter dated December 31, 1937 written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer)

"With regard to your question concerning the Virgin Birth of Jesus: On this point, as on several others, the Bahá’í Teachings are in full agreement with the doctrines of the Catholic Church. In the 'Kitáb-i-Íqán' (Book of Certitude) p. 56, and in a few other Tablets still unpublished, Bahá’u’lláh confirms, however indirectly, the Catholic conception of the Virgin Birth. Also ‘Abdu’l-Bahá in the 'Some Answered Questions', Chap. XII, p. 73, explicitly states that 'Christ found existence through the Spirit of God' which statement necessarily implies, when viewed in the light of the text, that Jesus was not the son of Joseph."

(From a letter dated October 14, 1945 written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer)

Lights of Guidance/Christ - Bahaiworks, a library of works about the Bahá’í Faith

 

[rational experiences]

Another passage that proves that it was Jesus who ascended as the Son of Man and comes back again is Acts 1:10,11.

'And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven'.

History and the heavenly body.

Do clouds exist in the sky one day and not the next?

Where was the image of Jesus witnessed?

In the clouds it said.

So the image of Jesus today is returned and seen in the clouds, for he did not come back as a human bio life. But returns again and again in cloud imaged memory...for his life, DNA bio was human/water/oxygen microbial mass owned on the ground.

Historically science says, the water mass on the ground split and half of it went up into the sky to contradict the UFO burning irradiation of our life.

So the microbial biomes life used, were put instead into cloud amassing evaporation formation of our life water.

We were taught life then lived sacrifice ever since for the UFO was forced held to react with our Heavens in a satanic attack, and it uses up our water to cool it until the spatial vacuum can suck it out. Science caused that attack.

We now live with Jesus, and involved atmospherically with Jesus by mass ground UFO evaporation of water, whilst life gets sacrificed non stop.

So when the false Preaching began about how Jesus saved our life....yes brother scientist the cloud amassing stopped the occult UFO attack that Temple pyramid science caused, but we have all lived sacrificed and dying in pain and suffering conditions since.

And thanks for lying, and thanks for introducing the attack as scientists and thanks for ignoring all of your own occult science teaching, and thanks for causing the attack to increase again...when it should be going away.

For our brother the scientist made us all a promise that he would stop occult practice.....science/nuclear and he lied.

 

[Trailblazer]

This maybe changing the subject:

And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days. “And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: Blood and fire and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD. And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance, As the LORD has said, Among the remnant whom the LORD calls. (Joel 2:28-32)

Because these prophecies were not fulfilled literarily at the first advent of Christ, i.e. the sun did not turn into darkness and the moon into blood and no fires and pillars of smoke were observed, the popular Christian belief assigns the literal fulfillment of these signs are related to the second coming of Christ. But it is evident that these signs are related to the first coming of Christ, as it is confirmed by Peter in the Book of Acts that Joel’s prophecies have been fulfilled in Jesus during the first advent.

But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Luke, “The Acts of the Apostles - πράξεις των αποστόλων” , 2:16

Don't take the signs of God literally.

Why not take these signs in the heavens literally? As I recall in The Kitab-i-Iqan, Baha’u’llah wrote that the signs were fulfilled figuratively as well as literally.

Acts 2:17-21And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

All of this happened before Baha’u’llah came.

“As we look, we find the events recorded (in Revelation), following on in the order predicted.” (Our Day in the Light of Prophecy, Spicer, p. 77.) These events which he listed were as follows:

1. The Lisbon earthquake, 1755. 1755 Lisbon earthquake

2. The Dark Day, 1780. New England's Dark Day

3. The Falling Stars, 1833. The Falling of the Stars

It is interesting to note that the great star-fall came on the night of 12 November, which is the birthday of Bahá’u’lláh.

Excerpts from: http://bahai-library.com/pdf/s/sears_thief_night.pdf

 

[Aupmanyav]

Don't take the signs of God literally.

That is always the problem. What is written in the scriptures that should be taken literally and what should be taken only metaphorically. If the prophecies were not fulfilled in the first coming as well as in the second coming, then what is the worth of the prophecies?
Why can't Allah or prophets speak in a clearer language? Why does Allah dwell on what is not going to happen? Why they lie?

 

[cataway]

You mean he would come and go back without being seen.

your stuck on the idea that Jesus will return as a man . his throne is in heaven . he will rule from heaven with dominion over the entire earth .

 

[Trailblazer]

What is written in the scriptures that should be taken literally and what should be taken only metaphorically.

The prophecies can be fulfilled literally or metaphorically or both ways.
We just have to read them to figure this out....

 

[rational experiences]

Humans should ask, especially males as humans, seeing they invented all statements for science and all thesis for formulas, for machine reactions. Is science real?

Is the language you imposed real in reality for the forms that pre existed your life, all created, huge bodies of mass sitting in space as natural forms? Did the male in his human egotism ever realise that you claim that you, a human and a male spoke on behalf of all things, as science explanations and symbols written on a piece of paper?

For the theme spiritual teaching is for human and self and survival against known probability of causes as activated by humans with science machines and holding extra UFO mass inside of a natural light gas burning atmosphere.

What language and what stories could be told in contradiction to unnatural changes?

For that is what science by human choice did, forced artificial and unnatural changes by their choice. So of course the explanations are not logical for science is artificial by choice.

If you asked science, did you know that you would have a left over residue from a nuclear reaction? And if you did, how could you know, when the reaction is not active in our Nature?

These are the sorts of questions that humanity should be asking of the scientist, for his organization has always kept him safe from public scrutiny, as if he above and beyond all other equal human life.

Science claims cold radiation in space is the back drop for all form being held, as it is cold. Heat up radiation and then we see life dying in all forms of unnatural causes. If they said and taught that space is a womb and it is the Holy Mother, then why would you change it, if you claim it Holy? As if you can abstract holiness itself and then have us all destroyed.

 

[Aupmanyav]

“As we look, we find the events recorded (in Revelation), following on in the order predicted.” (Our Day in the Light of Prophecy, Spicer, p. 77.) These events which he listed were as follows:

1. The Lisbon earthquake, 1755. 1755 Lisbon earthquake
2. The Dark Day, 1780. New England's Dark Day
3. The Falling Stars, 1833. The Falling of the Stars

What trash are you writing, Trailblazer? Why pick out on Lisbon Earthquake? What is so special about that? Here is a list of earthquakes of intensity 7 or greater all over the world. There have been many. Latest Earthquakes

New England's Dark Day occurred on May 19, 1780, when an unusual darkening of the day sky was observed over the New England states and parts of Canada. The primary cause of the event is believed to have been a combination of smoke from forest fires, a thick fog, and cloud cover. The darkness was so complete that candles were required from noon on. It did not disperse until the middle of the next night. New England's Dark Day - Wikipedia

Meteorite showers have been noticed for the last 2000 years. "A meteor shower is a celestial event in which a number of meteors are observed to radiate, or originate, from one point in the night sky. .. The Meteor Data Centre lists over 900 suspected meteor showers of which about 100 are well established." Meteor shower - Wikipedia

Why is Bahai-Library dishing out superstitious things? Obviously, these excerpts are meant only for uneducated fools.

 

[Aupmanyav]

your stuck on the idea that Jesus will return as a man . his throne is in heaven . he will rule from heaven with dominion over the entire earth .

Then, who started this false business of the returning Jesus? And who perpetuate it?

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus is not the Ancient of Days as in Dan 7 but is Baha'u'llah the "Ancient of Days" or the "one like a son of man"?
He seems to be both in the teachings of Baha'u'llah because one of his titles is the Ancient of Days and he also seems to want to be the one like the son of man who is given the Kingdom.

No, the Ancient of Days is God.

“No sooner did He reveal Himself, than all the people rose up against Him. By some He was denounced as one that hath uttered slanders against God, the Almighty, the Ancient of Days. Others regarded Him as a man smitten with madness, an allegation which I, Myself, have heard from the lips of one of the divines. Still others disputed His claim to be the Mouthpiece of God,” Gleanings, p. 145

Baha'u'llah never claimed to be the Ancient of Days. He claimed to be Voice of the Ancient of Days.
Baha'u'llah was speaking for God when he said “I truly am God, there is none other God but Me...."

“Let thine ear be attentive, O Nabíl-i-‘Aẓam, to the Voice of the Ancient of Days, crying to thee from the Kingdom of His all-glorious Name. He it is Who is now proclaiming from the realms above, and within the inmost essence of all created things: “I truly am God, there is none other God but Me. I am He Who, from everlasting, hath been the Source of all sovereignty and power, He Who shall continue, throughout eternity, to exercise His kingship and to extend His protection unto all created things. My proof is the greatness of My might and My sovereignty that embraceth the whole of creation.” Gleanings, p. 302

Baha'u'llah claimed to be Tongue of the Ancient of Days speaking from the Most Great Prison.

“Once again doth the Tongue of the Ancient of Days reveal, while in this Most Great Prison, these words which are recorded in this snow-white Scroll: O ye the beloved of the one true God! Pass beyond the narrow retreats of your evil and corrupt desires, and advance into the vast immensity of the realm of God, and abide ye in the meads of sanctity and of detachment, that the fragrance of your deeds may lead the whole of mankind to the ocean of God’s unfading glory. Forbear ye from concerning yourselves with the affairs of this world and all that pertaineth unto it, or from meddling with the activities of those who are its outward leaders.” Gleanings, pp. 241

“Pay thou no heed to the humiliation to which the loved ones of God have in this Day been subjected. This humiliation is the pride and glory of all temporal honor and worldly elevation. What greater honor can be imagined than the honor conferred by the Tongue of the Ancient of Days when He calleth to remembrance His loved ones in His Most Great Prison? The day is approaching when the intervening clouds will have been completely dissipated, when the light of the words, “All honor belongeth unto God and unto them that love Him,” will have appeared, as manifest as the sun, above the horizon of the Will of the Almighty.”
Gleanings, pp. 305-306

 

[rational experiences]

His story. Sun blasting event big bang theme...attack of Earth bored huge sink holes into a held O planet mass, cold and clear gases, whose fusion above ground melted, as did its iced body. Very cold Earth history...the reason Saturn has iced rings around it. Planets were once like asteroid stones in space, frozen.

The Sun blasting changed that natural history. Water on Earth flooded its body, stopped the UFO attack except what was above the water line. Huge sink holes, comets/meteors struck Earth historically in that history.

The theme visionary first scientists knew exactly what had historically occurred to Earth, spatial vacuum and water evaporation off the face of Earth, UFO gone/removed.

Known.

Anyone today would ask why science, male chosen reactivated that attack in the knowledge of the history of the cosmos and Earth?

Why we called scientists Satanists, as an actual historic event. For males by designed formula and machine chosen control/reaction brought it back into the Earth heavens by male control. Why science by male thesis owned a design model cause and effect that he could correlate to his science design choice, for he knowingly activated it.

Earth does get by cosmological causes attacked, as Earth was always natural in the cosmos. Males in science using human scientific themes as a human model also proved that science by human invention also caused cyclic attacks on Earth, for they reactivated the UFO as based on Earth sciences.

Why it was proven, for it was true. Satanic cosmologists in science therefore tried to keep it secreted, for they knew they activated the attack.

 

[Trailblazer]

What trash are you writing, Trailblazer? Why pick out on Lisbon Earthquake? What is so special about that? Here is a list of earthquakes of intensity 7 or greater all over the world. There have been many. Latest Earthquakes

New England's Dark Day occurred on May 19, 1780, when an unusual darkening of the day sky was observed over the New England states and parts of Canada. The primary cause of the event is believed to have been a combination of smoke from forest fires, a thick fog, and cloud cover. The darkness was so complete that candles were required from noon on. It did not disperse until the middle of the next night. New England's Dark Day - Wikipedia

Meteorite showers have been noticed for the last 2000 years. "A meteor shower is a celestial event in which a number of meteors are observed to radiate, or originate, from one point in the night sky. .. The Meteor Data Centre lists over 900 suspected meteor showers of which about 100 are well established." Meteor shower - Wikipedia

Why is Bahai-Library dishing out superstitious things? Obviously, these excerpts are meant only for uneducated fools.

This was just a quick response to Truthseeker9 to point out how some prophecies are fulfilled literally..

In order to understand how these events fulfilled the Bible prophecies you have to read Thief in the Night by William Sears

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The 'Ancient of Days' may also not be Jesus.

Regards Tony

That's right, Tony! That is Jesus' Father, the God of Israel.
Yahweh.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That's right, Tony! That is Jesus' Father, the God of Israel.
Yahweh.

I see the Father is not God in Essence. I see the Father is Christ returned as the Glory of God, Baha'u'llah. I see this is the 'Day of Jehovah'.

".. Of Him David had sung in his Psalms, acclaiming Him as the "Lord of Hosts" and the "King of Glory." To Him Haggai had referred as the "Desire of all nations," and Zachariah as the "Branch" Who "shall grow up out of His place," and "shall build the Temple of the Lord." Ezekiel had extolled Him as the "Lord" Who "shall be king over all the earth," while to His day Joel and Zephaniah had both referred as the "day of Jehovah," the latter describing it as "a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, a day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers." His Day Ezekiel and Daniel had, moreover, both acclaimed as the "day of the Lord,".... "

Regards Tony

 

[rational experiences]

Males in science own the Moses Old Testimonials that claim after the fact that they reinvented the science involving Egyptian pyramids with their Temples in the science that had a long time ago destroyed all life on Earth.

Machine parts found deep inside of Earth mass fusion and coal artefacts also proof...that Earth opened up its body and volcanic mass re sealed Earth and instant water flooding would have saved metal objects in the stone lava seal.

Before that happened humans just like us were living, as a bio DNA human life.

Meanwhile dinosaurs, the giants who lived in the heavenly body instead of humans in the Nature Garden inherited the new life on Earth due to the fallout of Satan gas/spirits that fell to the ground and burnt everything to death history.

2 giant bodies equalled one giant lived life on Earth.

Science today owns cosmological theories about beginnings and origins as if science and machine is not practicing science converting as if they are just reinventing the statements for science as new science. So historically it is as if they ignored the dinosaur and no season past Earth with dinosaur Heaven as if they returned to being their own DNA bio selves before with the origin science for Earth collision/pyramid and Temple.

Father told me today that science in Earth core comparing, being what science does, compares cosmological owned mass themes to a science machine reaction...said the Earth core a solid metal iron core is surrounded by massively hot lava mass.

He compares Earth core to his machine. His machine however is inside of an emptied out tunnel of Earth mass....but lava once flowed through those tunnels...which is actual historic use of Earth information about God, changes conversions to God as a stone body and Earth history.

When you detail history you must involve all subjects.

So the lava hot mass that should be flowing around his machine pretending core conditions, would not own science, literally, in reality.

Yet only due to mass no longer existing in a tunnel, he then infers his machine is likened to a cleared out beneath him volcanic mass surrounding the o iron Earth core. Relativity of a Healer was to study thinking thinking to prove that the thinker is a liar in his misuse and misappropriation of natural information.

Why the information Jesus Healer sciences, owned a new group of selves who realised the New Testimonial Revelations as compared to the old, completely changed reality....it is how it occurs, did in the past as it is today, the same effect.

The AI effect, life living, life dying unnaturally daily sacrificed in early age radiation death causation.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Acts 1:10-11 does not prove that.

The disciples were staring up into the sky. The two men dressed in white (angels) came along and asked why they were staring up into the sky. The two men then wondered why the disciples were staring up into the sky and said that the same Jesus who was taken up to heaven will return as he went to heaven. It does not say that the disciples saw a body go up.

I believe that it was the Christ Spirit that ascended, not a body, which is why the angels wondered why the disciples were staring into the sky, since there was nothing to look at. That makes perfect sense since angels can see spirits.

Descending from heaven upon the clouds means that the spirit of Jesus, the Christ Spirit, will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God and will appear in the form of the human being. Though delivered from the womb of Mary, Jesus in reality descended from the heaven of the will of God. I believe that Baha’u’llah descended in like manner, from the heaven of the will of God.

Jesus was changed from corruptible flesh and blood into an incorruptible spiritual body by resurrection (see 1Corinthians 15). But the soul of Jesus must have been raised within the new incorruptible body. If you look to Jonah 2:5,6 you will see that the soul of Jonah lived on after death. In like manner, the soul of Jesus must have been raised in a new spiritual body.

Acts 1:2 is referring to Jesus when it says, 'Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen;'

In Acts 1:9 it says, 'And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight'.

So, the passage is quite clear that the onlookers on the Mount of Olives were with the resurrected Lord Jesus as he was taken up from the earth. They saw him disappear into a cloud.

If the soul of Jesus was not raised in a new body then you could claim that the identity of Jesus was eradicated at resurrection, which is not what the scriptures teach. For instance, in Revelation 22:20 it says, 'He that testifyeth these things saith, Surely l come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus'.

Why does it not say, Even so, come, spirit of Christ?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If the soul of Jesus was not raised in a new body then you could claim that the identity of Jesus was eradicated at resurrection, which is not what the scriptures teach. For instance, in Revelation 22:20 it says, 'He that testifyeth these things saith, Surely l come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus'.

Why does it not say, Even so, come, spirit of Christ?

I see that Jesus the Christ taught that the flesh amounts to nothing, that he would send another who would come in a New Name.

As such, I would think that no one should be expecting the same Jesus to return, but the same spirit of Christ that was the reality of Jesus.

Regards Tony