Who knows?

[Ponder This]

Does a god or gods exist?

There are many religions with the primary aim of worshipping god(s), some share their god(s) between religions, some god(s) are unique to a particular religion.

But who knows if the god(s) they worship are real or not?

I am atheist and say "no", god(s) do not exist. I have several good (in my opinion) reasons why my belief is strong.

Primarily, the lack of falsifiable evidence. I can add the futility of prayer, childhood leukemia, the mosquito, natural disasters, unavoidable suffering, science, inconsistency between religions, lack of need for god(s) etc among other reasons.

So how about you?
Are you religious or not?
And can you provide the main reasons for your belief/unbelief in god(s)

I am not here to pick and pull apart your reasons, i am genuinely interested in why you believe what you believe.

Thanks

Here are some reasons to believe in God:

1. the lack of falsifiable evidence
   (by definition the lack of a capacity to prove God does not exist)
2. the effect of prayer
   (which improves the overall well-being of its practitioners)
3. the reality of suffering
   (which validates the existence of paths which lead to more or less suffering)
4. the futility of science
   (science is not applicable to this theological question)
5. the existence of religions
   (All Major Religions posit the existence of a god, gods, or supernatural figures)

 

[ChristineM]

Yes, but unreal stuff also exists. Spiderman exists in the MCU.
Iow, reality is a subset of existence.

Spiderman, originally thought, was made real in print and film.

 

[Heyo]

That is true, but it only applies to physical reality, not spiritual reality.
Just because spiritual reality cannot be seen or measured, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Reality:

1. the world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them.
2. the state or quality of having existence or substance.

reality means - Google Search

That's why I prefer the functional definition. It categorically excludes such things as "spiritual reality".

 

[Heyo]

So thought does not exist?

When you stop conflating reality with existence, you can answer that question yourself.

 

[ChristineM]

Here are some reasons to believe in God:

1. the lack of falsifiable evidence
   (by definition the lack of a capacity to prove God does not exist)
2. the effect of prayer
   (which improves the overall well-being of its practitioners)
3. the reality of suffering
   (which validates the existence of paths which lead to more or less suffering)
4. the futility of science
   (science is not applicable to this theological question)
5. the existence of religions
   (All Major Religions posit the existence of a god, gods, or supernatural figures)

1 works both ways. Though lack indicates absence
2 i believe to be illusionary, a placebo effect. Certainly no prayer has helped starving children or cured leukemia.
3 a caring god would not allow suffering of his prize creation, or if he did then he is not worthy of worship
4 funny how you used science to post your comments. I'll leave this one right here
5 but cannot prove gods and have belief in different gods

So for me they are not reason to believe but reason not to believe i god(s)

 

[Viker]

Does a god or gods exist?

There are many religions with the primary aim of worshipping god(s), some share their god(s) between religions, some god(s) are unique to a particular religion.

But who knows if the god(s) they worship are real or not?

I am atheist and say "no", god(s) do not exist. I have several good (in my opinion) reasons why my belief is strong.

Primarily, the lack of falsifiable evidence. I can add the futility of prayer, childhood leukemia, the mosquito, natural disasters, unavoidable suffering, science, inconsistency between religions, lack of need for god(s) etc among other reasons.

So how about you?
Are you religious or not?
And can you provide the main reasons for your belief/unbelief in god(s)

I am not here to pick and pull apart your reasons, i am genuinely interested in why you believe what you believe.

Thanks

I want to believe. So I let myself believe. Even when there is no concrete evidence there's is a burning desire. Rather I am making it all up or not, I still want to believe. So I seek signs and follow the paths. Now, they become real and part of me and I become a part of them.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I will be very surprised if the god of the Abrahamic religions exists. Like the gods of the Romans and Greeks and of the ancient times, they have all passed their sell by date.
However Religions have played, and still play an important part in the lives of many people and give stability to many legal and moral concepts.

Belief in them also gives hope and strength to the lives of many people.

However they have also been the direct and indirect cause of vast numbers of deaths and suffering to generations of people through wars and persecution.

The evidence supporting the existence of gods is remarkable for its total absence.

However while it is highly likely that gods and the whole concept of an afterlife is fictional.
It is possible that there are beings both in this and other universes, that have knowledge and powers that might seem God like to us, were they ever to cross our path.

We are all linked very closely to all our ancestors and all our descendents, and in that sense, our live are on a continuum shared with them. This goes on whether we are remembered or not.
We are in the same way linked to every one else, who has ever lived or will live.
This link is shared with all life on earth.

Our own lives can be thought a link in this chain, this can either be a positive or negative one. And will have some obvious effect on the people, and flora and fauna around us.

Our lives may, in a small way, influence the future of the world

 

[Trailblazer]

I want to believe. So I let myself believe. Even when there is no concrete evidence there's is a burning desire. Rather I am making it all up or not, I still want to believe. So I seek signs and follow the paths. Now, they become real and part of me and I become a part of them.

I don't want to believe but since there is evidence that God exists I believe.
and since I believe I may as well get some of the benefits of believing.
Whether the afterlife is a benefit remains to be seen.

 

[Trailblazer]

I will be very surprised if the god of the Abrahamic religions exists. Like the gods of the Romans and Greeks and of the ancient times, they have all passed their sell by date.

I believe those religions have passed their expiration date but the God who revealed them lives on and He has revealed a new religion.

 

[Revoltingest]

Who knows?
I know.

 

[sun rise]

Some scientist have ideas to explain their personal hobby horse.

Atoms, quanum particles exits, can be and are measured, and observed. Just because there is a lot of space between atoms does not mean whatever it is doesn't exist.

It's not ideas but experiments that prove theories that are involved. For the purposes of my reply, I'm sticking to hard science outlets not some of the more speculative places and only thinking about physics. For example, this from Scientific American:

The Universe Is Not Locally Real, and the Physics Nobel Prize Winners Proved It

Elegant experiments with entangled light have laid bare a profound mystery at the heart of reality

One of the more unsettling discoveries in the past half a century is that the universe is not locally real. In this context, “real” means that objects have definite properties independent of observation—an apple can be red even when no one is looking. “Local” means that objects can be influenced only by their surroundings and that any influence cannot travel faster than light. Investigations at the frontiers of quantum physics have found that these things cannot both be true. Instead the evidence shows that objects are not influenced solely by their surroundings, and they may also lack definite properties prior to measurement.

This is, of course, deeply contrary to our everyday experiences...

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But who knows if the god(s) they worship are real or not?

I am atheist and say "no", god(s) do not exist. I have several good (in my opinion) reasons why my belief is strong.

Primarily, the lack of falsifiable evidence. I can add the futility of prayer, childhood leukemia, the mosquito, natural disasters, unavoidable suffering, science, inconsistency between religions, lack of need for god(s) etc among other reasons.

Yes God, the Most Great Spirit, the cause of the Holy Spirit, the emanation of our existence, exits.

God gives the Evidence in the Revelation of the 'Self of God', a Messenger born as a human, with all the capacity of the human spirit, but Annointed with the Holy Spirit, the animating force of all creation, of all Virtues, Morals and knowledge.

As such the proof is in that Evidence. Baha'u'llah offered this, in this quote.

"...KNOW thou of a certainty that the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His Essence and reveal it unto men. He is, and hath ever been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived. From His retreat of glory His voice is ever proclaiming: “Verily, I am God; there is none other God besides Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. I have manifested Myself unto men, and have sent down Him Who is the Dayspring of the signs of My Revelation. Through Him I have caused all creation to testify that there is none other God except Him, the Incomparable, the All-Informed, the All-Wise.” He Who is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men can never be known except through His Manifestation, and His Manifestation can adduce no greater proof of the truth of His Mission than the proof of His own Person."

This creation was given in a perfect balance and it is when that balance is interrupted, that causes a correction.

Humans, without knowledge of that balance, carry out actions that upset that balance and without knowing it, create a lot of their own demise.

The need for God is found in the Message given, as God always guides us. So if war is an issue, we will find advice in the Message as to how that can be prevented. If cancer is an issue, we can find in the Message advice as to how to correct the balance. If knowledge becomes a source of destruction, the message contains the advice of how to correctly use knowledge etc.

I see the proof for God is available only in the given evidence. Considering we are part of the proof of God, the proofs are available in our very own selves.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

Does a god or gods exist?

In my view, God exists. I don't believe there are many gods.

There are many religions with the primary aim of worshipping god(s), some share their god(s) between religions, some god(s) are unique to a particular religion.

For me, the Abrahamic Faiths (Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Baha'i) worship the same God but have different ideas and concepts about the nature of God. Their overwhelming strength is they have a written record of what their Prophets or Teachers allegedly said.

I believe many other religions have also worshipped the same God as the Abrahamics but their original teachings have become lost or so fundamentally changed that it is impossible to have a meaningful conversation about the original teacher or teachings.

But who knows if the god(s) they worship are real or not?

On this forum we will have believers and non-believers alike with varying degrees of certainly and commitment to their respective beliefs. To me, the most important thing is people are fair, kind, respectful, courteous and reasonable. That matters far more than where on the spectrum of belief one lies.

I am atheist and say "no", god(s) do not exist. I have several good (in my opinion) reasons why my belief is strong.

Primarily, the lack of falsifiable evidence. I can add the futility of prayer, childhood leukemia, the mosquito, natural disasters, unavoidable suffering, science, inconsistency between religions, lack of need for god(s) etc among other reasons.

I have considered these reasons as have many other theists. They are insufficient justification in my opinion to reject the existence of God.

So how about you?
Are you religious or not?
And can you provide the main reasons for your belief/unbelief in god(s)

My reasons are based more on circumstantial evidence and are unlikely to convince any atheist just as the above reasons are unlikely to convince theists.

1/ The founders of the world religions, particularly Christianity and Islam. Their Teachings and the extraordinary example of their lives is compelling, even after the passing of many centuries. They stand as a testimony to the existence of God whom these men believed.

2/ The profound effect their teachings have had on their followers for better or worse. The profound effect their teachings have had on the course of human civilization, once again for better or worse.

To me, religion can bring out the best and worse in people. If it bring out the best it is worth pursuing. If it brings out the worse best to not follow such a religion.

I am not here to pick and pull apart your reasons, i am genuinely interested in why you believe what you believe.

That's good to know.

 

[F1fan]

The Universe is NOT The Omniverse. The Omniverse contains every Universe.

Our universe has billions of galaxies. So how many more univrses are there? Use facts.

If God didn't have divinity there would be nothing and no truly good things in the Universe or beyond.

What observations are you making of a God that suggests it has divinity? What is your test that demonstrates this observed God as having divinity?

Yet the things that all religions stresses and teaches in different ways, including generosity, is the reason why God exists.

So you are asserting that even that contradictions between religions indicates a God exists?

You mention generosity, but you need to include all the things religions, including all sects, teach as God's tecing or will. That would include suicide bombers who target innocent people. In science any experiment that gathers data has to account for ALL the data, not just what makes the conclusion valid. Your conclusion is that a God exists and your data is religions. So when religion is criminal it has to be considered, yes? I am assuming it is criminal to kill innocent people, perhaps the suicide bombers know something we don't as they are guided by God.

Somethings in the Universe changes more than other things. I will not pretend like most Omnists that all religions all equally valid. There are certain religions that just seem to do more things right than others, even if you ignore Earthseed and it's denominations. Anyone can look up the words Omniverse or God and I have the ability to describe them fully in detail. And while everything in the Universe does change (as there is no place here which is absolute 0K) I am not going to suggest that it isn't possible there are things outside the Universe that doesn't, which needs to be stressed. God is The Omniverse, entropy and extropy, which develops the Synverse. If there are parts that don't include entropy or extropy it cannot be God, and since entropy and extropy constitute what is change, that is how I describe the God I believe in.

As a critical thinker I am asked by theists what i would expect evidence of a God to look like, and my answer includes that i would expect the divine wisdom all over the world among different cultures to be remarkably consistent, and the believers who work at understanding to show a remarkable wisdom, balance, and peace. We don't see this. To my mind this is a serious problem with claims made by any sort of theist.

And as far as divinity in the universe, I would expect to see children be protected from illness. I could accept adults facing illness, but not children. The universe treats humans no better than it does worms, and children get no more special treatment than the elderly on their death bed. I think we humans would be better off acknowledging that we are here on our own and act as if we have a responsibility to each other and the planet.

 

[syo]

gods exist?

Yes. And we are Maya.

 

[Windwalker]

Belief is not necessarily reality

You believe you know reality, don't you?

 

[Windwalker]

And, i am talking about something that is claimed to be real.

Experience is real, isn't it?

In your opinion, there is really no agreement in what makes a god

Of course, it's my opinion. And that is the point. It is my informed opinion that most people, at least in theory, understand that God is not a created being. Unless you are a Mormon who thinks God has a physical body and has baby gods with his celestial wife. But that's not what is generally understood by Jews or all other Christians on the planet.

Atheist!

Sure, you don't believe in the idea of God you have that you present to us, which you told us was the reason for your not believing in it. I get that. I don't believe in the idea of God either that you told us you don't believe in. I guess that makes me an atheist like you then, since I don't believe in that either.

Why not?

Well you can, but then you are basing your atheism on an idea of God that really is not what most people consider to be God. That would explain your atheism though. I don't believe God defined that way either.

Nope, they suppose what is stated in the Christian bible

Only if read literally without much deeper understanding of the nature of God, the way a Sunday School class might teach children who need to think of God in concrete-literal terms as a basic object lesson, which hopefully one day they will realize it's not literally true in terms like that. If they don't, they will either become fundamentalists or disbelieving atheists, IMHO.

 

[Heyo]

Experience is real, isn't it?

Can you measure experience with a scientific instrument?

 

[ChristineM]

You believe you know reality, don't you?

It's well defined and not your imagination so yes

 

[ChristineM]

Experience is real, isn't it?

Try measuring it

Of course, it's my opinion.

Bingo

I don't believe in the idea of God either

Jolly good

Well you can, but then you are basing your atheism on an idea of God that really is not what most people consider to be God.

As stated, i am basing my idea of gods as stated in the bible. I will add, there are thousands more gods that have been worshipped through history, my idea of gods also includes them. What it doesn't include is your imagination.

Only if read literally without much deeper understanding of the nature of God,

Again, your imagination.
I accept you have a different view of god than many people, even on this thread, that is entirely up to you, i am not hear to argue about your view but to learn.