Emprical observation tells us that matter cannot be created or destroyed. So if we adhere to scientific method we must assume that the mass-energy that comprises the universe must always have existed in one form or another. If God could always have existed so could mass-energy. Claiming God doesn't need an explanation is the fallacy of special pleading.
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Who made God?
- Thread starter Pegg
- Start date
camanintx
Well-Known Member
That's simple, we're living. That's what life does. Any other meaning in life is our own creation.
camanintx
Well-Known Member
So you reject the Christian doctrine of an immutable God?
Oneatatime
Huh?
God is a disembodied human with superpowers. It fills a hole created by the possibility of a creator in which man naturally inserted an image of itself suitably souped up. Everything else followed from this.
Gjallarhorn
N'yog-Sothep
"But if cattle and horses and lions had hands or could paint with their hands and create works such as men do, horses like horses and cattle like cattle also would depict the gods' shapes and make their bodies of such a sort as the form they themselves have."
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Actually, no.
What about that golden calf in the days of Moses?
Perhaps that would be the cause....
"thou shalt not have any graven image before you...."
God is spirit.
Kinda hard to make a casting of that image...don't you think?
McBell
Unbound
I have seen numerous paintings, drawings, statues, carvings, etc. of Jesus....
CaptainBritain
Active Member
Ive found a new God, the real deal this time, you can worship him for 10 percent of yours gross, he loves you all so much but he will cast you into an eternal Kenny G concert if you dont worship him.
Gjallarhorn
N'yog-Sothep
Graven images...you mean the cross and statues strewn all over churches, homes, and people's necks?
Thief
Rogue Theologian
No...more the representations that develop over the centuries.
The 'image' is often other than human. (referring to your previous post about animals portraying their god...in their own likeness...if they could.)
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
God does not change his own standards. he never has and never will.
He will never change his purpose for mankind and the earth, he never has and never will.
but he can and has changed his decisions in certain situations. So if you think God is immutable in an absolute sense, then no. If he wants to change, he can. And if he wants to change something else, he can.
camanintx
Well-Known Member
Do you think that something that can change can exist "outside of time"?
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
Yes he does. The entire religion of Christianity is based on the god of the Bible "changing his standards". Otherwise, we'd still be sacrificing livestock and crops at the Temple.
There were regulations under the temporary Constitution of the Mosaic law.
But, God does Not change his 'moral' laws, principles, regulations, and standards where his morals are concerned.
A lie will always be a sin.
Fornication and adultery will always be a sin.
Stealing will always be a sin.
When was there ever a change about being 'obedient' to God's will ?
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
But that doesn't address the point. The god of the Bible's "standards" certainly do change. At one point in Biblical history, sacrificing livestock and/or crops at the Temple was sufficient to atone for one's sins. That is no longer the case, correct?
Yes he does, otherwise we would stone to death people who broke the Sabbath, dishonorable children, and women who were raped but didn't call out for help loud enough. And we certainly don't consider genocide and taking virgins as the spoils of war "moral" do we?
Again, you miss the point. It isn't about having to be obedient, it's about what you do to atone for your inevitable disobedience and exactly what constitutes disobedience.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
the sacrificing of animals was not one of Gods 'standards'
It was the invention of man.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
i would take a 'speculative guess' and say, yes. Because God can exist outside of time considering the bible says hes timeless/ageless/eternal... and time, as a human construct, only began with the birth of the universe
Yes, we must understand God timelessly and un-spatially. God is something that has nothing to do with a particular religion. IMO god is the last truth when everything fails. God is the last refuge we can retreat to at the end of the day. I do not see God in an image and any image we paint of God is not God but our own refection since God is not something our dimensional mind can perceive, not something our sensory organs can sense. Going through scientific observations and inferences I cannot be answered satisfactorily and my life cannot be spanned to the extent I explore everything scientifically. I will have to finally take refuge in God wherein I can sleep eternally at peace.
The flipside to this is that if a thing was ever allowed, then it doesn't violate God's "moral law". Wouldn't this mean that things like rape, slavery and genocide aren't actually immoral?
But the OT describes God commanding animal sacrifice; is the Bible an invention of man as well?