Who made God?

[Pegg]

you can say the same about the universe...
we are made of star dust...

i agree

my personal view is that ( and this IS speculative), as God is living, and all energy is living, then all things with energy are linked to God. I believe this is why it can be said that God knows the heart of everyone living and that he can discern a persons thoughts and intentions... and he knows when even the smallest sparrow dies and when the individual flowers blossom

energy comes out from God and when something dies, that same energy returns to God

 

[McBell]

Still leaning on that crutch of 'empty retort', I see.

 

[McBell]

Which came first?
Spirit or substance?

I say Spirit.

God did it.

 

[Thief]

It would have been better to have said something intelligent.
Try gotblah.com

I like Sinfest much better.

 

[McBell]

thats cool, i didnt take your comment to be dissing... but when you asked for evidence of my earlier post, and i gave you a scripture, its because I really do view the bible as the book with all the answers

You answered my question with a straight forward, easy to understand, honest answer.
I do not fault you for that.

Its just that you started the thread with science as evidence of god and then switched from science to belief.

if it really has come from God, then it must be correct, right?

Seems to me that this is yet another assumption.

 

[McBell]

It would have been better to have said something intelligent.
Try gotblah.com

I like Sinfest much better.

Are you actually going to contribute to the current discussion or are you going to merely continue to show your mastery of empty retort?

 

[Pegg]

You answered my question with a straight forward, easy to understand, honest answer.
I do not fault you for that.

Its just that you started the thread with science as evidence of god and then switched from science to belief.

yes i probably did not need to use any scriptures for this particular discussion... the point that i'm really making is that energy is eternal and therefore its not impossible that God can also be eternal

Seems to me that this is yet another assumption.

If the God im referring to is the same one described in the bible, then i dont need to assume that the bible is truthful... we can be assured that it is.

 

[McBell]

the point that i'm really making is that energy is eternal and therefore its not impossible that God can also be eternal

I agree that if one thing can be eternal, then other things can also be eternal.

However, this is the point being referred to with the "who made god?" thing.

Most of the time when I see that question and when ever I pose the question my self, it is because someone is trying to claim that God HAS to exist because life cannot come from no-life. But then they turn right around and make God an exception the very rule they claim shows that God has to exist. Now if god can be an exception to the rule, why can't the universe?

Of course, this does not address the fact that the Bible and other creations stories were the reason that the belief in spontaneous generation was alive and well for so long.

If the God im referring to is the same one described in the bible, then i dont need to assume that the bible is truthful... we can be assured that it is.

And that particular if merely leads into a whole nest full of other ifs and not a single one of the ifs involved can be verified outside the self.

 

[Pegg]

Most of the time when I see that question and when ever I pose the question my self, it is because someone is trying to claim that God HAS to exist because life cannot come from no-life. But then they turn right around and make God an exception the very rule they claim shows that God has to exist. Now if god can be an exception to the rule, why can't the universe?

but God isnt an exception when you consider that first law of thermodynamics...energy is eternal. God is no longer an exception now. Perhaps God is the rule.

And the universe can't be an exception to the rule because science has confirmed that it had a beginning...this means the universe is NOT eternal.

And if the universe is not eternal, then the eternal energy that is inside the universe did not come from the universe... it must have come from elsewhere.

 

[averageJOE]

In defending creationism, creationists will always uphold the inescapable fact that life only comes from pre-existing life. To that, evolutionists will ask the age old question, If all life comes from preexisting life, who created God?

There is a very simple answer that proves that God did not need to be created and it is found in the first law of thermodynamics.
That law provides us with a real life example of something that cannot be created or destroyed because within the universe, it is eternal.

The first law of thermodynamics observes the principle of conservation of energy. Energy can be transformed, i.e. changed from one form to another, but cannot be created nor destroyed.

So energy is eternal. It cannot be created, nor destroyed because it always exists.Now the second law of thermodynamics tells us that energy is eternal within a closed system. Some will argue that the universe itself is the closed system and that is why the energy is eternal.
However, the universe did not always exist, and considering that the closed system cannot be the 'source' of the energy, as the first law states, then the energy must have come from 'outside' the universe. So where did the energy come from in the first place?


Romans 1:19-20 because what may be known about God is manifest among them, for God made it manifest to them. 20 For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable

Jermiah 10:12 He is the Maker of the earth by his power

Isaiah 40:28 Have you not come to know or have you not heard? Jehovah, the Creator of the extremities of the earth, is a God to time indefinite. He does not tire out or grow weary


So if someone asks you 'who made God', tell them to consider the scientific evidence as found in the first law of thermodynamics.

If you believe all of this then why do you believe your god is personal? You use words like "He", and also believe god to have human emotions and intentions like love. What you are describing almost sounds like deism. Almost.

 

[McBell]

but God isnt an exception when you consider that first law of thermodynamics...energy is eternal. God is no longer an exception now. Perhaps God is the rule.

So then God is a life?
If so, then by the very rule used to show god has to exist god has to have come from another life.

If god is not a life, then god could not have created life because the rule says that life has to come from life.

And the universe can't be an exception to the rule because science has confirmed that it had a beginning...this means the universe is NOT eternal.

Actually, all science says is that the current form of the universe had a beginning.

And if the universe is not eternal, then the eternal energy that is inside the universe did not come from the universe... it must have come from elsewhere.

Then we have different definitions of the word universe.

 

[averageJOE]

So then God is a life?
If so, then by the very rule used to show god has to exist god has to have come from another life.

This is the million dollar question. Do you believe your god is a "living" god, Pegg?

 

[Pegg]

If you believe all of this then why do you believe your god is personal? You use words like "He", and also believe god to have human emotions and intentions like love. What you are describing almost sounds like deism. Almost.

well consider this, Waitasec made the point on page 2(?) that we humans are stardust. This is quite true, all the matter in the universe was created during the big bang which began as nothing more then lightbeams... which eventually gave life to biological creatures

that is likely why the bible says that at death, living creatures return to the dust or the ground... because we are made of the same matter that the universe is made of.

However, we are more then just matter, we are also conscious... What could possibly bring matter into a state of awareness? Can stardust develop a mind and thinking ability? Light and stardust alone cannot achieve that... only a being with the same consciousness could do that. And lets face it, if matter can be conscious, then God can be conscious too.

 

[Pegg]

This is the million dollar question. Do you believe your god is a "living" god, Pegg?

Absolutely.

And i can see what Mestemia is saying, but if the energy of the universe can produce consciousness, then there is no reason to assume that God is not also conscious and eternal

 

[Vansdad]

You answered my question with a straight forward, easy to understand, honest answer.
I do not fault you for that.

Its just that you started the thread with science as evidence of god and then switched from science to belief.



Seems to me that this is yet another assumption.

Everything is an assumption. But at one point you have to believe what you feel is true.

 

[PolyHedral]

Your argument falls apart because, despite your misunderstanding, the universe has existed for all of time.

It's very careful to pay attention to the wording here. The universe has clearly existed for and will exist for eternity. The fact that eternity has a start is entirely tangential to this. Energy, similarly, is neither created or destroyed. It has and will exist for eternity. However, it existed during the first moment. Trying to conceive of the time when the energy "did not exist" would be wrong.

 

[Vansdad]

Your argument falls apart because, despite your misunderstanding, the universe has existed for all of time.

It's very careful to pay attention to the wording here. The universe has clearly existed for and will exist for eternity. The fact that eternity has a start is entirely tangential to this. Energy, similarly, is neither created or destroyed. It has and will exist for eternity. However, it existed during the first moment. Trying to conceive of the time when the energy "did not exist" would be wrong.

How would you even know? Alot of gobbldy gook if you ask me...lucky for you you aren't asking. ha ha

 

[Android]

like many others, i actually view the bible as a book of truth. All my 'claims' are based on the bible because I view what is written in it as coming from our Creator. What do I know about spirits/death/life etc... absolutely nothing... but God does know about these things because he created us.

How can anyone view the bible as a book of truth, or being the words of god?
It was written my men.
Bronze age men, who knew nothing of the world except that it was flat.
Men with an agenda!

 

[Dirty Penguin]

In defending creationism, creationists will always uphold the inescapable fact that life only comes from pre-existing life. To that, evolutionists will ask the age old question, If all life comes from preexisting life, who created God?

I personally find the question moot. To ask the question is to give credence to the idea that a god exist. Since there is no evidence that gods exist then there's no need to ask the question. With this information in hand one comes to the realization that evolution stands with or without the hypothesis of the existence of "God" of the bible as "creator".......

 

[tarekabdo12]

Who made God?

God didn't design the human brain to know how God's or What God's. The human brain is only designed to know that there's a creator behind this fascinating universe. If u see a camera or a TV u know that behind such a great equipment there was a great inventor and manufacturer. Even the humans didn't know before they'd microscopes and labs, how their bodies work and how they get diseases. This proves that the human brain can't realize everything. We still don't know many things about the world because your capabilities have limits. An animal can't thing like a human being because the capacity of its brain abilities can't cross certain limit. Human brain, as well can't cross a certain limit.