Who made God?

[Pegg]

For the second time in this thread...

Science has shown that the universe's CURRENT FORM had a beginning.

and i'll repeat, its a mighty large assumption to think it existed in another form.

What evidence is used to assume that it did exist?

 

[Sententia]

Energy is eternal in a system, but what before the system was present? If there was no system , so there's no energy in this system.

Normal rationale says that everything must have come from something, energy in the universe must have come from an eternal source of energy which is God.

yep, this is exactly why believers can be confident when challenged to prove God exists.

lol what? It must have come from something therefore it came from god who must have come from something therefore he came from god who must of come from something therefore... what?

Because of a poorly thought out and intellectually ridiculous argument then believers can be confident when challenged to prove god exists? Who are you kidding and to what end? Normal rationale would dictate everything must come from something therefore god which is something that can come from nothing and thus be the source for everything.

Even your initial argument is flawwed in the same manner...

So energy is eternal. It cannot be created, nor destroyed because it always exists.Now the second law of thermodynamics tells us that energy is eternal within a closed system. Some will argue that the universe itself is the closed system and that is why the energy is eternal.

However, the universe did not always exist, and considering that the closed system cannot be the 'source' of the energy, as the first law states, then the energy must have come from 'outside' the universe. So where did the energy come from in the first place?

Therefore god. Therefore not just god but your god. Your conclusions don't really run a long with your example unless we assume your bias... Nothing except energy can exist forever... the universe was not energy so it had a beginning but energy did not therefore where did the energy come from... dunno so therefore god.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Its my understanding I could put god on trial for being a fictitious charactor.

And I think I would win it.

As plenty of people would roll there eyes. A senator did subpoena God for murder, but that was to rise awareness to a fault of a particular bill. And of course you have to determine which God, and finding a judge that wouldn't view such a thing as a waste of time. And how many scientist, including Stephen Hawking, have said science does not prove or disprove God. The fact is, no one really knows. We don't even know what lies outside of our universe, or how it really came into being. And then there is how many religions are compatible with the scientific views. And how it can be viewed that if a God did create the universe, our scientific understandings is the processes in which this God created the universe.
It can be said the universe began with Aum, and while it's speculation, it can't be disproven. No more than or less than the Big Bang being speculation, and can't be disproven.

 

[Gunfingers]

and i'll repeat, its a mighty large assumption to think it existed in another form.

What evidence is used to assume that it did exist?

The first law of thermodynamics.

 

[McBell]

and i'll repeat, its a mighty large assumption to think it existed in another form.

What evidence is used to assume that it did exist?

Please be so kind as to see the OP.

 

[Pegg]

The first law of thermodynamics.

so you accept that energy is eternal, but this fact of science causes you to deviate from another fact of scientific... that the universe, where the energy resides, did not always exist

to use the first law of thermodynamics as evidence that the universe has always existed (in some form) goes against known science. Im guessing some people dont like the implications that eternal energy had to be put into a system that did not always exist.

 

[McBell]

so you accept that energy is eternal, but this fact of science causes you to deviate from another fact of scientific... that the universe, where the energy resides, did not always exist

to use the first law of thermodynamics as evidence that the universe has always existed (in some form) goes against known science. Im guessing some people dont like the implications that eternal energy had to be put into a system that did not always exist.

 

[tarekabdo12]

lol what? It must have come from something therefore it came from god who must have come from something therefore he came from god who must of come from something therefore... what?

Because of a poorly thought out and intellectually ridiculous argument then believers can be confident when challenged to prove god exists? Who are you kidding and to what end? Normal rationale would dictate everything must come from something therefore god which is something that can come from nothing and thus be the source for everything.

Even your initial argument is flawwed in the same manner...

I said before that the human mind is not designed 2 reach the entity of God. God is greater than our limited minds.

 

[Android]

if you took a study of its prophecies you'd probably come to the same conclusion I did.

What, like the world ending last week? Or all the other doomsday predictions in the past. Or that jesus would return within one generation after his death?

Could you name me a single prediction from the bible that has actually come true?

 

[Krok]

Goodness gracious, religionists can be so dumb! Then they pretend to know everything about 'science'!

..and i'll repeat, its a mighty large assumption to think it existed in another form.

No, not even one assumption involved. Just empirical facts. The first law of thermodynamics. The one that reads: Energy can be transformed from one form to the other, but cannot be created nor destroyed.

Pegg, did you read the words Energy ......cannot be created in there?

What evidence is used to assume that it did exist?

The first law of thermodynamics. It existed in some form before the current Universe.

 

[PolyHedral]

science would have agreed with you several decades ago when they did believe the universe was eternal

but it is now understood that it had a beginning and is scientifically proven. Anything beyond that, such as it existed in some other form, is speculation

Yes, it has a beginning. It has also existed for all of time.

 

[Pegg]

What, like the world ending last week? Or all the other doomsday predictions in the past. Or that jesus would return within one generation after his death?

Could you name me a single prediction from the bible that has actually come true?

I said if you study 'it' as in the 'bible'... not harold campings radio station


I would love to show you some prophecies, but not in this thread. I just bumped a thread i created some time back in the Bibliology forum.

 

[Pegg]

Yes, it has a beginning. It has also existed for all of time.

this is the point where the lines between science, reason and logic get blurred.

 

[Android]

I said if you study 'it' as in the 'bible'... not harold campings radio station

I would love to show you some prophecies, but not in this thread. I just bumped a thread i created some time back in the Bibliology forum.

I cant see this thread, what is it called?

...or was that just your way of saying "no, I can't show you anything"?

 

[PolyHedral]

this is the point where the lines between science, reason and logic get blurred.

I don't see what the problem is. Time has a beginning. The universe has existed for all of time, and along with it, energy.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Question....because I'm not playing this (who made god game).....

Does the universe meet the traditional definition "eternal" or was it established the universe is not eternal?

 

[McBell]

this is the point where the lines between science, reason and logic get blurred.

Nope.
You blurred them with the OP.

 

[McBell]

Question....because I'm not playing this (who made god game).....

Does the universe meet the traditional definition "eternal" or was it established the universe is not eternal?

I guess it depends upon which "traditional" definition you go by:

"The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48"
Eternal \E*ter"nal\,
n.

1. One of the appellations of God.
[1913 Webster]

2. That which is endless and immortal. --Young.
[1913 Webster]

​

Eternal

1. Without beginning or end of existence; always existing.
[1913 Webster]

2. Without end of existence or duration; everlasting;
endless; immortal.
[1913 Webster]

3. Continued without intermission; perpetual; ceaseless;
constant.
[1913 Webster]

4. Existing at all times without change; immutable.
[1913 Webster]

5. Exceedingly great or bad; -- used as a strong intensive.
"Some eternal villain."
[1913 Webster]
​

If you go with definition 4, I would have to say no, the universe is not eternal.

 

[ninerbuff]

But who is to say with certainty there is a god, or there is no god?

Depends on who you debate with. I'll go with science since it's proven more to me of why things happen, what things are made of, how energy can transform, etc. over teachings that a magic being does all of this and you too can have a personal relationship with them.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

I personally find the question moot. To ask the question is to give credence to the idea that a god exist. Since there is no evidence that gods exist then there's no need to ask the question. With this information in hand one comes to the realization that evolution stands with or without the hypothesis of the existence of "God" of the bible as "creator".......

Honestly, I think when Atheists ask this, it is more rhetorical than anything considering there really is no answer not based on faith.