Who made God?

[Pegg]

Pegg, if you're so aligned with the science of cosmology, why are you taking a position directly contrary to one of the most prominent scientists in the field?

Stephen Hawking: God was not needed to create the Universe - Telegraph

is that an argument from authority? Is steven hawking the authority on the universe now? I dont think so.

Notice in that article his quote: “Because there is a law such as gravity, the Universe can and will create itself from nothing"

Gravity is what weaves the universe together...without it there would be no universe...where was gravity before there was a universe? Does gravity exist outside the universe? How did the law of gravity get here in the first place? Can he provide an answer to such questions???

 

[tarekabdo12]

The initial argument disproves itself... Nothing can exist forever therefore god created everything that does exist except how can god exist if nothing can exist forever

I mean that if U ask who made God, You then will ask who made who made God and will enter in to a vicious circle. So, to end this debate we must reach that there was an original creator who is higher and more great than we can reach his entity via our limited powers.

 

[tarekabdo12]

is that an argument from authority? Is steven hawking the authority on the universe now? I dont think so.

Notice in that article his quote: “Because there is a law such as gravity, the Universe can and will create itself from nothing"

Gravity is what weaves the universe together...without it there would be no universe...where was gravity before there was a universe? Does gravity exist outside the universe? How did the law of gravity get here in the first place? Can he provide an answer to such questions???

No, we can't.That's why I assume that there's a creator who began this universe at first because something can't arise from nothing. However, the entity of this God is beyond the capacity of our minds.

 

[Pegg]

No, we can't.That's why I assume that there's a creator who began this universe at first because something can't arise from nothing. However, the entity of this God is beyond the capacity of our minds.

yes I agree with you that we cannot begin to imagine what God is... its like trying to explain the color red to a blind person, or the sound of a bird to a deaf person

we are not spirits therefore we cannot fully understand exactly what they are. The closest we can get to a description is something similar to energy, or wind.

 

[Anonymouse]

then so are we, ...our energy was transformed into life and it will transform into something else. this still has no bearing on the existence of a creator, at least not to me.

Unless, of course, we are all gods (dare I say creators) and thus in need of worship.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Unless, of course, we are all gods (dare I say creators) and thus in need of worship.

Or...unless..WE MADE GOD...!!

 

[Anonymouse]

Or...unless..WE MADE GOD...!!

I would go as far as to say that humans had a helping hand in "evolving" God. If you look at human history and theology, God wasn't always the way He is now. One decade God is against something, the next decade He becomes very open-minded and agreeable. Unfortunately, a changing god is neither almighty, divine or eternal.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

No, we can't.That's why I assume that there's a creator who began this universe at first because something can't arise from nothing. However, the entity of this God is beyond the capacity of our minds.

Yes, the whole "I can't explain it so god must have done it" argument. Compelling stuff....

 

[ninerbuff]

yes I agree with you that we cannot begin to imagine what God is... its like trying to explain the color red to a blind person, or the sound of a bird to a deaf person

we are not spirits therefore we cannot fully understand exactly what they are. The closest we can get to a description is something similar to energy, or wind.

Yet religious people can assertively say that their god has given them commandments to follow.............but yet can't fully understand or imagine what god is.

 

[Glow]

According to Jehovah's Witness (Pegg's religious organisation's) belief, Jehovah IS STILL RESTING!

Yeah, and, according to " Jehovah Witnesses " hell doesn't exist - even though it is mentioned several times in the Bible. lol.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

In defending creationism, creationists will always uphold the inescapable fact that life only comes from pre-existing life. To that, evolutionists will ask the age old question, If all life comes from preexisting life, who created God?

There is a very simple answer that proves that God did not need to be created and it is found in the first law of thermodynamics.
That law provides us with a real life example of something that cannot be created or destroyed because within the universe, it is eternal.

You're contradicting yourself.

If God, despite being "life", does not require a creator himself, then your claim that "life only comes from pre-existing life" is false: in God, we would have a real example of life that did not come from pre-existing life. Just as the premise "all swans are white" is contradicted by a single black swan, the premise "all life requires pre-existing life" is contradicted by a single extant God.

The first law of thermodynamics observes the principle of conservation of energy. Energy can be transformed, i.e. changed from one form to another, but cannot be created nor destroyed.

So energy is eternal. It cannot be created, nor destroyed because it always exists.Now the second law of thermodynamics tells us that energy is eternal within a closed system. Some will argue that the universe itself is the closed system and that is why the energy is eternal.
However, the universe did not always exist, and considering that the closed system cannot be the 'source' of the energy, as the first law states, then the energy must have come from 'outside' the universe. So where did the energy come from in the first place?


Romans 1:19-20 because what may be known about God is manifest among them, for God made it manifest to them. 20 For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable

Jermiah 10:12 He is the Maker of the earth by his power

Isaiah 40:28 Have you not come to know or have you not heard? Jehovah, the Creator of the extremities of the earth, is a God to time indefinite. He does not tire out or grow weary


So if someone asks you 'who made God', tell them to consider the scientific evidence as found in the first law of thermodynamics.

This assume that whatever realm beyond the universe that God inhabits is a closed system. How on Earth would you ever go about demonstrating that this is true?

 

[tarekabdo12]

yes I agree with you that we cannot begin to imagine what God is... its like trying to explain the color red to a blind person, or the sound of a bird to a deaf person

we are not spirits therefore we cannot fully understand exactly what they are. The closest we can get to a description is something similar to energy, or wind.

Exactly, that's what I mean. Thank U for demonstrating. You are brilliant.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

yes I agree with you that we cannot begin to imagine what God is... its like trying to explain the color red to a blind person, or the sound of a bird to a deaf person

Wouldn't this make religion a big snipe hunt, then?

Religion (or at least theistic religion) is all based on purported knowledge of God(s): his/her/their/its nature, plans, likes and dislikes, etc. If we can't know God at all, then doesn't this make all theology a futile endeavour?

 

[tarekabdo12]

Yet religious people can assertively say that their god has given them commandments to follow.............but yet can't fully understand or imagine what god is.

Like we know we have a soul but can't know what it is. You mean that if U can't see your brain so U r mad. If U tell me that we have CT and MRI, I'll tell U that people knew that they had brains thousands of years before the new equipment have been invented.

 

[tarekabdo12]

then so are we, ...our energy was transformed into life and it will transform into something else. this still has no bearing on the existence of a creator, at least not to me.

So, who made the first matter that contained this energy?

 

[shoinan]

Like we know we have a soul but can't know what it is. You mean that if U can't see your brain so U r mad. If U tell me that we have CT and MRI, I'll tell U that people knew that they had brains thousands of years before the new equipment have been invented.

Yeah. It's amazing what you can do with something sharp and a dead person. Or not even necessarily with a dead person but that's a bit mean really.

 

[PolyHedral]

So, who made the first matter that contained this energy?

It has existed for all of time.

 

[Jose Fly]

is that an argument from authority?

No. An argument from authority would be if I said, "Stephen Hawking said gods are not needed to explain the universe, and he's an expert, therefore he's right". I simply asked why in your appeal to science you're ignoring one of the most prominent experts in cosmology?

Is steven hawking the authority on the universe now? I dont think so.

Of course he is. Look at his qualifications. If he isn't an authority in cosmology, then no one is an authority in anything.

Notice in that article his quote: “Because there is a law such as gravity, the Universe can and will create itself from nothing"

Gravity is what weaves the universe together...without it there would be no universe...where was gravity before there was a universe? Does gravity exist outside the universe? How did the law of gravity get here in the first place? Can he provide an answer to such questions???

Why don't you ask him?

 

[Jose Fly]

we cannot begin to imagine what God is... its like trying to explain the color red to a blind person, or the sound of a bird to a deaf person.

Then why do religious people spend so much time telling us what gods are, what they want, who they like, what they don't like, etc.?

On one hand you tell us that we can't even imagine what the gods are, but then you turn right around and tell us who they are and what they do. Do you not see the contradiction?

 

[camanintx]

the universe had a beginning...15 billion years ago.

that is what science has proved through scientific investigation. What you are claiming is purely theoretical. Unsubstantiated by science...outside the realm of testable science, or in other words - metaphysical.

but if you want to put faith in something that has no foundation, go ahead. I will stick to what science has proven until proven otherwise.

As someone once said, proof is for mathematics and whiskey. Science doesn't prove anything, it formulates explanations for how the world works and tests them for accuracy. Newton's laws of motion were never proven wrong, they were just found to be inaccurate when dealing with very large velocities or strong gravitational fields.

The current hypothesis that the universe had a beginning is based on evidence that it was once incredibly dense and hot from the cosmic background radiation. Since the current equations fail to give meaningful results under these conditions, we cannot say what, if anything, may have existed before this moment.

Since current theory also tells us that time and space are the same thing, if this universe had a beginning then time also had a beginning, so asking what happened "before" the beginning is meaningless.