Who made God?

[PolyHedral]

Back to #126

'If' there is God...my list is not an assumption.

No. It is an understatement. However, other things you've said about God contradict it. For one thing, why on earth would God do any judging?

 

[Thief]

No. It is an understatement. However, other things you've said about God contradict it. For one thing, why on earth would God do any judging?

There are 6billion copies of this human form...each one generating a fresh soul.
If we all cross over...the chaos that Man creates for himself will 'bleed' into the peace of heaven.
Not all that we do here in this life will be allowed...later on.

I believe in life after death.
I strongly suspect...there is some 'reservation'...what walks in heaven.

 

[PolyHedral]

There are 6billion copies of this human form...each one generating a fresh soul.
If we all cross over...the chaos that Man creates for himself will 'bleed' into the peace of heaven.
Not all that we do here in this life will be allowed...later on.

Why do you think Heaven is a single place? God has already constructed one Matrix, i.e. Heaven itself, why not make 6 billion?

But the problem is more fundamental than that. It's actually quite simple: you don't judge automatons.

 

[Thief]

Why do you think Heaven is a single place? God has already constructed one Matrix, i.e. Heaven itself, why not make 6 billion?

But the problem is more fundamental than that. It's actually quite simple: you don't judge automatons.

A mindless copy?

Judgment might seem cold....unto someone having no reason.

But a mindless copy might not have enough of what it takes to stand up...
when the chemistry fails.

 

[Pegg]

Why is it that so many Christians barely seem to have read the Bible?

Can God be seen?

the incidences of God 'appearing' to various individuals in the old testament, was by means of his messengers....the angels.

Here an important verse that they left out:
Ex. 33:18-23 “Cause me to see, please, your glory..."I myself shall cause all my goodness to pass before your face...You are not able to see my face, because no man may see me and yet live.” And Jehovah said further: “Here is a place with me, and you must station yourself upon the rock. And it has to occur that while my glory is passing by I must place you in a hole in the rock, and I must put my palm over you as a screen until I have passed by. After that I must take my palm away, and you will indeed see my back. But my face may not be seen.”


God spoke by means of angels, or by means of visions, or by means of dreams... but he never appeared fully to anyone. The only one who came close to seeing God was Moses...and even then God had to shield Moses from his brilliance to protect him.

 

[Pegg]

So your stance is that the first law of thermodynamics explains why god, one with likes and dislikes, human emotions and personality and intentions, and with the ability to communicate with us, and even had a son, doesn't have a creator?

no, i'll repeat this again

the first law of thermodynamics provides us with an example of something that is eternal and cannot be destroyed. Having one example of a thing that eternal gives us the possibility that other things can be eternal too.

So can God be eternal? Yes, he possibly can.

 

[averageJOE]

no, i'll repeat this again

the first law of thermodynamics provides us with an example of something that is eternal and cannot be destroyed. Having one example of a thing that eternal gives us the possibility that other things can be eternal too.

So can God be eternal? Yes, he possibly can.

So then it can be possible that god has a creator? If we're talking about possibilities...

 

[PolyHedral]

A mindless copy?

Judgment might seem cold....unto someone having no reason.

But a mindless copy might not have enough of what it takes to stand up...
when the chemistry fails.

All of the information available shows us that minds are simply automatons. It doesn't make sense to judge automatons, only debug them.

 

[McBell]

Something can't arise from nothing.

Really?
Are you sure?
Cause I bet you will sing a different tune when asked where Allah came from....

 

[Jose Fly]

the incidences of God 'appearing' to various individuals in the old testament, was by means of his messengers....the angels.

Cripes, do you guys even read your own holy book?

Exodus 33:11
And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend.

The link I provided gave multiple passages of the Bible describing it's god being seen "face to face" by various people.

But either way, you've managed to dodge the points I made in post #118.

 

[Looncall]

no, i'll repeat this again

the first law of thermodynamics provides us with an example of something that is eternal and cannot be destroyed. Having one example of a thing that eternal gives us the possibility that other things can be eternal too.

So can God be eternal? Yes, he possibly can.

Through this thread, energy has been treated as if it is a substance. That is not accurate. The notion of energy is just a shorthand way of describing the behaviour of objects.

As well, life has been mentioned as if it too is a substance. However, what we call life is just the behaviour of matter arranged in certain ways and arises due to those arrangements.

It is my opinion that it is such category errors that produce religious notions and that make it so easy to propagate religious ideas.

 

[Pegg]

Cripes, do you guys even read your own holy book?

Exodus 33:11
And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend.

The link I provided gave multiple passages of the Bible describing it's god being seen "face to face" by various people.

But either way, you've managed to dodge the points I made in post #118.

the hebrews had a way of speech far different to our own

You should talk to a hebrew speaking person and ask about the language. Its a very expressive language with vivid descriptions. its rich in metaphors and concrete words that involve the senses of seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, and smelling so that the expressions can almost be felt by the hearer or reader.

In the case of Moses, his relationship with God was so impressive that it was as if he actually beheld God with his own eyes, All Gods prophets were given mental visions or dreams, which is an indirect form of communication, but not so with Moses. Moses could call on God at any time to request a judgement. God would hear him and immediately provide him with direction. No other prophet could summon God the way Moses could. This is why the language used is that Moses saw God 'face to face'... no other human (apart from Jesus) was able to so easily call for Gods attention.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

the hebrews had a way of speech far different to our own

You should talk to a hebrew speaking person and ask about the language. Its a very expressive language with vivid descriptions. its rich in metaphors and concrete words that involve the senses of seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, and smelling so that the expressions can almost be felt by the hearer or reader.

In the case of Moses, his relationship with God was so impressive that it was as if he actually beheld God with his own eyes, All Gods prophets were given mental visions or dreams, which is an indirect form of communication, but not so with Moses. Moses could call on God at any time to request a judgement. God would hear him and immediately provide him with direction. No other prophet could summon God the way Moses could. This is why the language used is that Moses saw God 'face to face'... no other human (apart from Jesus) was able to so easily call for Gods attention.

And I'm assuming that it says this in the bible, that Moses could call on God at will? And he was the only one able to do so?

 

[Jose Fly]

the hebrews had a way of speech far different to our own

You should talk to a hebrew speaking person and ask about the language. Its a very expressive language with vivid descriptions. its rich in metaphors and concrete words that involve the senses of seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, and smelling so that the expressions can almost be felt by the hearer or reader.

In the case of Moses, his relationship with God was so impressive that it was as if he actually beheld God with his own eyes, All Gods prophets were given mental visions or dreams, which is an indirect form of communication, but not so with Moses. Moses could call on God at any time to request a judgement. God would hear him and immediately provide him with direction. No other prophet could summon God the way Moses could. This is why the language used is that Moses saw God 'face to face'... no other human (apart from Jesus) was able to so easily call for Gods attention.

LOL! Only in fundie-speak would "They spoke face to face" be interpreted as "They spoke via proxies".

And I take it that you're just going to blow off post #118?

 

[Thief]

No. An argument from authority would be if I said, "Stephen Hawking said gods are not needed to explain the universe, and he's an expert, therefore he's right". I simply asked why in your appeal to science you're ignoring one of the most prominent experts in cosmology?


Of course he is. Look at his qualifications. If he isn't an authority in cosmology, then no one is an authority in anything.


Why don't you ask him?

I have seen recently that Suskind got the better of Hawking....
a long standing disagreement over black holes....and information loss.
Hawkins had to concede his stance held for decades.

Still, when it comes down to it....
aren't you the one responsible for what rattles about in your head?

Nod your head for the sake of presumed know-how on someone else's part?

 

[McBell]

Nod your head for the sake of presumed know-how on someone else's part?

Is that not exactly what you want everyone to do?
Just take your word for it?

Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

 

[Pegg]

And I'm assuming that it says this in the bible, that Moses could call on God at will? And he was the only one able to do so?

Yes. There are numerous examples of Moses requesting an audience with God, and God obliges.

In Numbers 12 God chastises Miriam and Aaron for complaining against Moses. here is what he says:

4 Then Jehovah suddenly said to Moses and Aaron and Mir′i‧am: “Go out, the three of YOU, to the tent of meeting.” So the three of them went out. 5 After that Jehovah came down in the pillar of cloud and stood at the entrance of the tent and called Aaron and Mir′i‧am. At this both of them went out. 6 And he went on to say: “Hear my words, please. If there came to be a prophet of YOURS for Jehovah, it would be in a vision I would make myself known to him. In a dream I would speak to him. 7 Not so my servant Moses! He is being entrusted with all my house. 8 Mouth to mouth I speak to him, thus showing him, and not by riddles; and the appearance of Jehovah is what he beholds. Why, then, did YOU not fear to speak against my servant, against Moses?

 

[Jose Fly]

Oh, and Jacob too...

Exodus 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

...and um, some other dudes...

Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Tree Lobsters recently put out some comics that are relevant to this thread:

Tree Lobsters!: #273 Original Thought

Tree Lobsters!: #275 Eternal

 

[Thief]

Is that not exactly what you want everyone to do?
Just take your word for it?

Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

No...not at all....

If you ever get around to reading my post.....with your mind in gear....

What I post is one idea that follows another.
You don't have to take my word for it.
Just think.

I do find it odd, that continually...and in a shallow manner.... you try to debunk my writing.