Who made God?

[Gunfingers]

You asked:

and i'll repeat, its a mighty large assumption to think it existed in another form.

What evidence is used to assume that it did exist?

And I replied that it must have existed in another form because of the first law of thermodynamics. So to then say this

so you accept that energy is eternal, but this fact of science causes you to deviate from another fact of scientific... that the universe, where the energy resides, did not always exist

to use the first law of thermodynamics as evidence that the universe has always existed (in some form) goes against known science. Im guessing some people dont like the implications that eternal energy had to be put into a system that did not always exist.

Is pretty ridiculous. You asked me how I knew the universe always existed, I gave you the first law, and then you asked how I could accept the first law but not the fact that the universe has always existed. You're being ridiculous.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

I said before that the human mind is not designed 2 reach the entity of God. God is greater than our limited minds.

Special pleading based on assumption.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Depends on who you debate with. I'll go with science since it's proven more to me of why things happen, what things are made of, how energy can transform, etc. over teachings that a magic being does all of this and you too can have a personal relationship with them.

It does depend. But when you approach the subject with something like a Deist religion, where God created the universe and left it at that, there isn't anything science can disprove as it just shows what happened after the beginning. But if we are looking at something like prayer, we can see there can be a positive psychological effect to the point of placebo healing for some, but typically there is nothing.

 

[Glow]

Isaiah 40:28 Have you not come to know or have you not heard? Jehovah, the Creator of the extremities of the earth, is a God to time indefinite. He does not tire out or grow weary

Oh... I thought " Jehovah " rested on the 7th day after his " creation " ? Anyway, just another contradiction in the Bible. I am a Muslim, however, am finding much truth in Hinduism. Brahman's the man!

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Honestly, I think when Atheists ask this, it is more rhetorical than anything considering there really is no answer not based on faith.

Mine was an honest one. I don't normally comment on physics as it's not really my strongest subject so I asked the question because I genuinely and sincerely wanted to know. Mestimia replied and I was satisfied with the answer.

 

[outhouse]

The fact is, no one really knows.

dont you find "godidit" as primitive thinking and a mistake man has made for thousands of years.

Myself I think its time to stop the mistakes.


your whole thought proccess can be exchanged with imagination and it plays out exactly the same.

because science doesnt have it down solid doesnt mean a deity filling in the gaps of knowledge is even plausible

 

[RitalinO.D.]

Mine was an honest one. I don't normally comment on physics as it's not really my strongest subject so I asked the question because I genuinely and sincerely wanted to know. Mestimia replied and I was satisfied with the answer.

Gotcha.


But did you honestly expect an answer you could swallow? It's usually the same ol' song 'n dance.

 

[Dan4reason]

that would require the one who made him to be even more wonderful them he

an eternal energy gives credence to an eternal God who did not require a maker.

That is impossible. We have no evidence that anything but a creator can make anything intelligent or wonderous. Being eternal simply doesn't explain it. That would be like saying that the watch sitting on the ground is eternal, or that human were not made by a designer but have always existed. Intelligence, complexity, and the wondrous can only be explained by design.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Gotcha.


But did you honestly expect an answer you could swallow? It's usually the same ol' song 'n dance.

Well, I'm not sure which is why I thought I'd ask. Some debate that the universe is eternal and some debate that it isn't. I looked up the classical definition and decided find out where the universe sat with the definition. I'm "guessing" the idea is that (energy) is eternal considering I posit it was before the "big bang" and it persist but the existence of the universe seems to be dependent, even if partly, on (time) and since time seems to have started with the big bang then the universe can't be eternal........I told you RitalinO.D, physics is not my strong suit. :sorry1:

 

[RitalinO.D.]

Well, I'm not sure which is why I thought I'd ask. Some debate that the universe is eternal and some debate that it isn't. I looked up the classical definition and decided find out where the universe sat with the definition. I'm "guessing" the idea is that (energy) is eternal considering I posit it was before the "big bang" and it persist but the existence of the universe seems to be dependent, even if partly, on (time) and since time seems to have started with the big bang then the universe can't be eternal........I told you RitalinO.D, physics is not my strong suit. :sorry1:

I'm with ya there bro. I don't know much about it either. Never took it in school.

 

[Big_TJ]

Oh... I thought " Jehovah " rested on the 7th day after his " creation " ? Anyway, just another contradiction in the Bible. I am a Muslim, however, am finding much truth in Hinduism. Brahman's the man!

According to Jehovah's Witness (Pegg's religious organisation's) belief, Jehovah IS STILL RESTING!

 

[Pegg]

You asked:

And I replied that it must have existed in another form because of the first law of thermodynamics. So to then say this

Is pretty ridiculous. You asked me how I knew the universe always existed, I gave you the first law, and then you asked how I could accept the first law but not the fact that the universe has always existed. You're being ridiculous.

the universe had a beginning...15 billion years ago.

that is what science has proved through scientific investigation. What you are claiming is purely theoretical. Unsubstantiated by science...outside the realm of testable science, or in other words - metaphysical.

but if you want to put faith in something that has no foundation, go ahead. I will stick to what science has proven until proven otherwise.

 

[Pegg]

I cant see this thread, what is it called?

...or was that just your way of saying "no, I can't show you anything"?

Go here

 

[Cain]

the universe had a beginning...15 billion years ago.

that is what science has proved through scientific investigation. What you are claiming is purely theoretical. Unsubstantiated by science...outside the realm of testable science, or in other words - metaphysical.

but if you want to put faith in something that has no foundation, go ahead. I will stick to what science has proven until proven otherwise.

Actually what science has managed to prove is that there had to be something 'before' the Big Bang, and that we may never know.

 

[logician]

"God" could be a singularity, i.e. the undefinable point from which the big bang arose.

 

[Gunfingers]

the universe had a beginning...15 billion years ago.

that is what science has proved through scientific investigation. What you are claiming is purely theoretical. Unsubstantiated by science...outside the realm of testable science, or in other words - metaphysical.

but if you want to put faith in something that has no foundation, go ahead. I will stick to what science has proven until proven otherwise.

No, the big bang took place 14-odd ga. That was not the beginning of the universe, that was the expansion of the universe. What may have come before that is inconceivable, since that was basically the beginning of time. However, with the first law of thermodynamics being extremely solidly established, it's quite clear that nothing "came into being" at that time.

 

[Thief]

Question....because I'm not playing this (who made god game).....

Does the universe meet the traditional definition "eternal" or was it established the universe is not eternal?

Last scientist I saw speak of it....
'the universe will end one way or another.
Either it will lose it's momentum and collapse unto itself (possibly start over...bang!)

Or it will continue in it's expansion and dissipate into 'nothing'...
having lost it's 'cohesion'.

Another documentary shows the expansion to be gaining speed!

 

[Thief]

"God" could be a singularity, i.e. the undefinable point from which the big bang arose.

See my thread...Intelligence first.
You might have something to contribute.
Hope to see you there.

 

[Sententia]

I said before that the human mind is not designed 2 reach the entity of God. God is greater than our limited minds.

Which is both fallacious and deceitful on your part.

Do you disagree and if so why is your position both factual and truthful?

The initial argument disproves itself... Nothing can exist forever therefore god created everything that does exist except how can god exist if nothing can exist forever? Its a poorly thought out argument and I think others have recently on this forum presented better arguments.

 

[Jose Fly]

Pegg, if you're so aligned with the science of cosmology, why are you taking a position directly contrary to one of the most prominent scientists in the field?

Stephen Hawking: God was not needed to create the Universe - Telegraph