The whole idea of "god" was an invention of man!
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Who made God?
- Thread starter Pegg
- Start date
The whole idea of "god" was an invention of man!
camanintx
Well-Known Member
If time is a human construct, then God's ability to exist outside of it depends on how you define it. How would you define time?
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What about sacrificing your son. That a better standard?
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
Sheesh...again I have to wonder if you guys even read your own holy book.
Genesis 4:4 And Abel also brought an offeringfat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering
Genesis 8:20 Then Noah built an altar to the LORD and, taking some of all the clean animals and clean birds, he sacrificed burnt offerings on it. 21 The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: Never again will I curse the ground because of humans...
The New Testament also makes it clear that blood sacrifices were part of God's law:
Hebrews 9:19 When Moses had proclaimed every command of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. 20 He said, This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep. 21 In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. 22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
Heck, it's not hard at all to find examples of the god of the Bible directly commanding blood sacrifices:
Exodus 13:1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 Consecrate to me every firstborn male. The first offspring of every womb among the Israelites belongs to me, whether human or animal.
Exodus 13:11 After the LORD brings you into the land of the Canaanites and gives it to you, as he promised on oath to you and your ancestors, 12 you are to give over to the LORD the first offspring of every womb. All the firstborn males of your livestock belong to the LORD. 13 Redeem with a lamb every firstborn donkey, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem every firstborn among your sons.
Biblegod even tells people not to mix their blood sacrifices with anything containing yeast.
Exodus 23:17 Three times a year all the men are to appear before the Sovereign LORD. 18 Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast. The fat of my festival offerings must not be kept until morning.
Go read Exodus 29 and this god's commands on consecration of priests. It's a freakin' blood bath.
Exodus 29 - Passage Lookup - New International Version - BibleGateway.com
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Man is an invention by God.
Who invented God?
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
for us, time is nothing more then the distance between events
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
the bible is the story of mankind from their beginning. In that beginning, two sons of Adam chose to offer a sacrifice to God. One gave fruits of the ground, the other gave the firstlings from his herd. Did God request this sacrifice? No.
but the man gave it because he thought the blood sacrifice could make an atonement for his own sins and possibly spare his life. People offered blood sacrifices 2 thousand years before the mosaic law was even put in writing.
If you want to know what God really says about blood sacrifices, you will find it at Psalm 40:6 Sacrifice and offering you did not delight in; These ears of mine you opened up. Burnt offering and sin offering you did not ask for"
and at 1Samuel 15:22 In turn Samuel said: Does Jehovah have as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obeying the voice of Jehovah? Look! To obey is better than a sacrifice,
and at Psalm 51:16 For you do not take delight in sacrificeotherwise I would give [it]; In whole burnt offering you do not find pleasure.
and Isaiah 1:11 Of what benefit to me is the multitude of YOUR sacrifices? says Jehovah. I have had enough of whole burnt offerings of rams and the fat of well-fed animals; and in the blood of young bulls and male lambs and he-goats I have taken no delight.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
we read it in a way others dont
Thief
Rogue Theologian
camanintx
Well-Known Member
Why are you restricting your definition to us? Wouldn't time be the distance between events regardless of what's involved?
Pegg said: "we read it in a way others don't"
Yes Christians read the Bible with a bunch of preconceived notions put in their heads by other Christians. For example Christians actually think the Bible is prophetic even though every good Bible commentary explains that the supposed prophecies in the Bible were all written well after the events they supposedly predicted had already occurred. Not only that we have no independent evidence that events actually took place as described. Obviously most of the events described in the Bible are fictional, written so as to conform to earlier prophecies. Whats really absurd about the way Christians read the Bible is that there is no such thing as a historical narrative that contains dialog, word for word conversations of people all speaking in complete sentences. All such narratives are fictional. When we hold the Bible up to standard literary criticism it fails every text there is for historicity and passes all the tests for fiction with flying colors.
Yes Christians read the Bible with a bunch of preconceived notions put in their heads by other Christians. For example Christians actually think the Bible is prophetic even though every good Bible commentary explains that the supposed prophecies in the Bible were all written well after the events they supposedly predicted had already occurred. Not only that we have no independent evidence that events actually took place as described. Obviously most of the events described in the Bible are fictional, written so as to conform to earlier prophecies. Whats really absurd about the way Christians read the Bible is that there is no such thing as a historical narrative that contains dialog, word for word conversations of people all speaking in complete sentences. All such narratives are fictional. When we hold the Bible up to standard literary criticism it fails every text there is for historicity and passes all the tests for fiction with flying colors.
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
Well that much is obvious. You read "they spoke face to face" as "they spoke via proxies". You read "And the Lord said slice that bull's throat and spread it's blood all over the alter" as "The Lord doesn't like blood sacrifices".
Funny how once again you totally ignore the fact that your own holy book directly contradicts what you say about it. But, I've found that to be standard behavior among conservative Christians.
McBell
Unbound
I agree.
So came before god?
I don't know about that one, but he requested others:
Exodus 29 (quoting God):
Exodus 34 (quoting God):
And he apparently liked certain ones that he didn't explicitly request:
Exodus 8:
That's just a sampling. If I was to quote all the passages in Leviticus where it says that burnt offerings create "a soothing aroma to the LORD", I'd hit the character limit for the post.
So? I never said that the Bible doesn't contradict itself.
Analogy:
If I was to say "a newborn baby is better than a puppy", would this mean that I don't like puppies?
Again: I'm not arguing that the Bible isn't contradictory. If your position is that God doesn't like burnt offerings and sacrifices, then it's up to you to reconcile this with all the passages that say he does like them.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
we dont see time in the same way God sees it.
our time is calculated by the length of time it takes the earth to revolve on its axis... God is not bound by time that way.
the bible says that one day for God is 1,000 years for us. So time is relative.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
i already did that. The account of Cain and Able (the first two who offered sacrifices) happened well over 1,000 years before Moses wrote the mosaic law...and by that stage, people had been offering sacrifices as a way to make atonement for their sins because they knew that blood was required to make atonement.
God allowed them to make these sacrifices, but he never required them because he knew that the blood of animals could not really atone completely for the sins of mankind. So when he had Moses write the mosaic law, he made regulations on how these sacrifices should be made. The sacrifice had to be perfect, it had to be a firstling from the flock, it had to be sound in health and it had to be presented on the alter.
the reason why was because the sacrifice of the animal prefigured the sacrifice that God would make in behalf of mankind by means of his son who was ... perfect, the firstling from the flock, sound in health... Jesus was presented as a corresponding soul to replace the one that Adam had lost.
And this is why the christian congregation no longer required adherence to the mosaic law. Sacrifices could stop because God had made his own sacrifice...the only one that could ever fully redeem mankind and the only one that God had ever purposed to provide.
camanintx
Well-Known Member
Saying we don't see time in the same way God sees it implies that time has some objective existence separate from us or God. If time is simply the distance between events or a measure of change, then anything that can change is subject to time. Whether we experience that time the same or not is irrelevant, we both experience it.
If time is just a construct, and the only moment which really exists is now, wouldn't anything "outside of time" be "outside of existence" as well?
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
is something eternal, subject to time?
and we know that time is relative, its relative depending on ones frame of reference. Gods frame of reference is not located inside our universe, so we cant' possibly know how time passes for him. The little information we have in the bible is that 1,000 years on earth is equivalent to 1 day for God.