Who made God?

[Android]

Gods frame of reference is not located inside our universe, so we cant' possibly know how time passes for him.

If god isn't in our universe, then he doesn't know we exist.

 

[camanintx]

is something eternal, subject to time?

If it changes, yes.

and we know that time is relative, its relative depending on ones frame of reference. Gods frame of reference is not located inside our universe, so we cant' possibly know how time passes for him. The little information we have in the bible is that 1,000 years on earth is equivalent to 1 day for God.

Every frame of reference is relative, but you didn't answer my question. If time is not a fundamental property of the universe, then how can anything exist "outside of time"?

 

[Jose Fly]

God allowed them to make these sacrifices, but he never required them because he knew that the blood of animals could not really atone completely for the sins of mankind

I suppose that's the great thing about mythology. Any apparent contradiction or inconvenience can be easily dealt with by making stuff up.

 

[McBell]

I suppose that's the great thing about mythology. Any apparent contradiction or inconvenience can be easily dealt with by making stuff up.

And flat out ignoring any post that points it out...

 

[Pegg]

If it changes, yes.


Every frame of reference is relative, but you didn't answer my question. If time is not a fundamental property of the universe, then how can anything exist "outside of time"?

i think you've created a logical fallacy by imposing the rule that if something changes, then it is governed by time

God tells is that he is eternal. Time is no object to him because he is not limited by time, yet he still creates change, ie he created spiritual beings like himself, he created the universe with all its billions of stars and galaxies, he worked on the earth to prepare it for habitation then put physical laws into effect and created lifeforms

all this would imply, according to your view, that God is governed by time in the same way we are....yet he himself says he is eternal and ageless and timeless...so he cannot be governed by time

 

[Sententia]

i think you've created a logical fallacy by imposing the rule that if something changes, then it is governed by time

God tells is that he is eternal. Time is no object to him because he is not limited by time, yet he still creates change, ie he created spiritual beings like himself, he created the universe with all its billions of stars and galaxies, he worked on the earth to prepare it for habitation then put physical laws into effect and created lifeforms

all this would imply, according to your view, that God is governed by time in the same way we are....yet he himself says he is eternal and ageless and timeless...so he cannot be governed by time

Are you both arguing that logic can not apply to god and that god exists regardless of logic?

The part where you say he created spiritual beings like himself is amusing too. God created billions of galaxies and stars but worked on earth to prepare it for habitation... Cause he will wipe out every tear from our eyes... death shall be no more... neither shall mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore because our sun will get some magic and will never go supernovae and even more surprisingly we will have billions of humans that never die having children that never die that live on this planet forever in paradise and will bask in god's light and glory.

I miss being a witness sometimes... :areyoucra

 

[Adonis65]

So if someone asks you 'who made God', tell them to consider the scientific evidence as found in the first law of thermodynamics.

Why in the world would a person of faith tell someone that? The first thing to do in this case is think logically. If God created us, then clearly, someone else created Him. That makes so much more sense than saying God was begotten of mindless thermodynamics.

What is it with the atheist's obsession with mindless parentage?

 

[camanintx]

i think you've created a logical fallacy by imposing the rule that if something changes, then it is governed by time

I'm simply using the same definition of time that you agreed to. If something changes then you have an event, hence you have time. You said that God created the universe from his own energy which is a change, hence God is also subject to time. The frame of reference is irrelevant because all time is relative. If God is "outside of time" then it cannot change and could not have created anything.

 

[Pegg]

Are you both arguing that logic can not apply to god and that god exists regardless of logic?

anything that is physical will be bound by the same logic that we are bound by, but God is not physical... so how can we apply our logic to something that does not exist in our form.

for us it is logic that we keep both feet on the ground... but God has no feet
for us it is logic to eat 3 good meals a day... but God does not eat
for us it is logic to count 1 day by 1 rotation of the earth...but God is not located on earth.

so what is logical for us, may not be for a being who does not exist within our physical world is what i'm saying.

 

[Pegg]

I'm simply using the same definition of time that you agreed to. If something changes then you have an event, hence you have time. You said that God created the universe from his own energy which is a change, hence God is also subject to time. The frame of reference is irrelevant because all time is relative. If God is "outside of time" then it cannot change and could not have created anything.

you are saying that he is 'subject' to time

the bible says he is not... it says he is eternal. Something that is eternal is not going to be subject to time in the same way we are. Our life has a definite beginning, Gods does not. Our life has a definite end, Gods does not.

God is outside of 'our' time... and God can change whatever he likes to change. It doesnt make him subject to time though.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why in the world would a person of faith tell someone that? The first thing to do in this case is think logically. If God created us, then clearly, someone else created Him. That makes so much more sense than saying God was begotten of mindless thermodynamics.
What is it with the atheist's obsession with mindless parentage?

Isn't 'Creator' singular? If someone created the Creator then that someone would be the Creator instead of the Creator being the Creator.
-Rev 4v11

No where does Scripture teach God was begotten.
To the contrary Psalm [90v2] says God is from everlasting to everlasting.
God always existed and always will exist.
God as Creator and Heavenly Father creates life.
The word 'father' means life giver.
First, God created and gave intelligent life to angelic creation.
Then, God created and gave intelligent life to human creation.
[besides animal kind]

So, God is immortal and always will exist. Timeless.
God offers 'unending life' to those in the heavens and also those on earth.
Humans that do Not go to heaven to reign with Christ [Rev 20v6; 5vs9,10]
[except for those of Matt 12v32] can gain everlasting life right here on a paradisaic earth starting at the time of Jesus millennial reign over earth.
They can be permanent earthly subjects of God's kingdom. -Psalm 72v8;
-Matt 25vs31,32.

 

[CaptainBritain]

The energy that is in us can only come from the Creator, so I guess, yes, we are eternal in that the energy that powers us first existed with him.

So in terms of this, do you agree that it is possible that God can be eternal and did not require a maker?

Or could you agree that the energy that powers us may never have existed with him, is eternal and by that rational did not require a maker.

If Gods energy required no maker then why would ours?

 

[muslim_boy]

God is not like his creation. God was not created,he does not need anyone, but everything deppends on anything.you cant compare God to us humans, God is eternal he created the begining and the end.comparing humans to god is a big wrong in my religoin in islam.

 

[Pegg]

Or could you agree that the energy that powers us may never have existed with him, is eternal and by that rational did not require a maker.

If Gods energy required no maker then why would ours?

well the issue you have to contend with is how that energy could have intelligence to know what it needed to become in order to create the things it created.

all the matter in the universe is energy in various forms...all different... how did it know to change from one type to another?

 

[CaptainBritain]

well the issue you have to contend with is how that energy could have intelligence to know what it needed to become in order to create the things it created.

all the matter in the universe is energy in various forms...all different... how did it know to change from one type to another?

the same way the energy that created a super intelligent God knew to do that,

anyway the word created implies intelligence, chemistry has none.

If a thunder bolt strikes a forrest and alters its form to fire and ash etc

 

[Pegg]

the same way the energy that created a super intelligent God knew to do that,

anyway the word created implies intelligence, chemistry has none.

If a thunder bolt strikes a forrest and alters its form to fire and ash etc

maybe the intelligent energy itself is God.

in that case, he never required a maker...he just was.

 

[CaptainBritain]

maybe the intelligent energy itself is God.

in that case, he never required a maker...he just was.

If we could prove energy had intelligence then you may have a point, since energy is natural, there is every reason that it should be testable via the scientific method.

until then, claims without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

On a seperate note, why would energy be a he rather than an it?

 

[CaptainBritain]

God is not like his creation. God was not created,he does not need anyone, but everything deppends on anything.you cant compare God to us humans, God is eternal he created the begining and the end.comparing humans to god is a big wrong in my religoin in islam.

Then if you are a Muslim you should not do it, I however am not bound by Islams rules, infact I reject them as valid, unless you can substatiate those claims with evidence, we need no evidence to refute them.If I say I have an immortal invisible unicorn in my back garden that created everything including that which you call God, you might want me to back that claim up, if I provided no evidence to back up my claim you need provide no counter evidence to refute it.

Without evidence all you have is the words of a man written in a book and many books contain those.

I would never compare man to God because I have evidence that man exists.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

So, to repeat my view on the topic ...

if (God), then

for all X

God != X;​

 

[PolyHedral]

maybe the intelligent energy itself is God.

in that case, he never required a maker...he just was.

Intelligence and energy have nothing to do with one another.