Who observes, that the brain observes ?

[Polymath257]

Brain activity, when anesthetized, is similar to that of deep sleep. I've experienced both.

As I see it, these states are an experience of absence, not an absence of experience. There is still an underlying consciousness that is constant.

My 'experience' has been the opposite. When I am asleep or anesthetized, there is no experience at all.

 

[Polymath257]

In your belief system.

Well, given all of medical knowledge, yes.

 

[SalixIncendium]

My 'experience' has been the opposite. When I am asleep or anesthetized, there is no experience at all.

When you awaken, are you aware that you were asleep?

 

[Polymath257]

Can you please elaborate?

The brain is not a uniform structure. It has various parts devoted to different types of information and conduit circuitry to carry the results to other parts of the brain. Those feedback circuits, where information goes out from one part, gets processed, and then returns for ore processing is how the brain is aware of itself. it keeps itself updated on the state of all of its subsystems.

I believe it is a mistake to think of the 'self' as a monolithic entity: in fact, it is a bunch of competing subsystems, each concerned with some aspects of things (visual, aural, planning, etc) and each sharing its information with the rest (some more directly than others).

 

[Polymath257]

When you awaken, are you aware that you were asleep?

When I awaken, I am aware that I was not aware for an interval of time.

 

[SalixIncendium]

The brain is not a uniform structure. It has various parts devoted to different types of information and conduit circuitry to carry the results to other parts of the brain. Those feedback circuits, where information goes out from one part, gets processed, and then returns for ore processing is how the brain is aware of itself. it keeps itself updated on the state of all of its subsystems.

You became aware of all this simply by your brain observing the brain?

Without the senses, how would the brain know about the brain's structure? How would the brain know about the brain's feedback circuits?

My point is that the brain alone cannot be aware of itself, as was alluded to back on the first page.

 

[Polymath257]

No. The brain is aware of what it can detect through the senses, and much of the self it can detect through these senses. I can touch my face, my legs, my head, etc.

Through these senses, it cannot be aware of itself. I'm not understanding how you're concluding that the brain is aware of itself.

Because the different parts of the brain send information to other parts of the brain. There is input, processing, memory, feedback, and output (signals for speech, movement, etc). But the information processed by the visual system is shared with the part that plans activities, and is put into memory by the memory subsystem, which is linked to the emotional processing systems, etc. They are all massively interconnected.

 

[SalixIncendium]

When I awaken, I am aware that I was not aware for an interval of time.

So an experience of absence, then?

 

[Polymath257]

You became aware of all this simply by your brain observing the brain?

Without the senses, how would the brain know about the brain's structure? How would the brain know about the brain's feedback circuits?

My point is that the brain alone cannot be aware of itself, as was alluded to back on the first page.

Different aspects: the different parts of the brain are aware of the information processed in other parts of the brain.

Of course,we have learned about how the brain works by studying it, by testing, by observation, by operations, etc. That doesn't negate the information we have figured out about it.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Because the different parts of the brain send information to other parts of the brain. There is input, processing, memory, feedback, and output (signals for speech, movement, etc). But the information processed by the visual system is shared with the part that plans activities, and is put into memory by the memory subsystem, which is linked to the emotional processing systems, etc. They are all massively interconnected.

The brain is aware of the information it receives. It is not aware of the brain itself.

 

[Polymath257]

So an experience of absence, then?

Not during sleep, no. An experience that there *was* an absence. The experience happens *after* I wake up. Not when I am asleep. During sleep, there is an absence with no experience.

 

[Polymath257]

The brain is aware of the information it receives. It is not aware of the brain itself.

it is aware of the information processed by the other parts of the brain. That is all that is required for consciousness. Not the awareness of the nerves themselves.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Different aspects: the different parts of the brain are aware of the information processed in other parts of the brain.

Of course,we have learned about how the brain works by studying it, by testing, by observation, by operations, etc. That doesn't negate the information we have figured out about it.

Precisely. What the brain knows about the brain it has experienced through the five senses. The brain alone cannot experience the brain. Just the information it has.

 

[Polymath257]

Precisely. What the brain knows about the brain it has experienced through the five senses. The brain alone cannot experience the brain. Just the information it has.

But consciousness is, I think, information processing. And it is the information from the different areas of the brain being shared that is, ultimately, what consciousness *is*.

Technical point: there are more than five senses. For example, proprioception, which is crucial for the feeling of 'embodiment'.

 

[stvdv]

Just think about.

The solution is "think not"

 

[chinu]

The solution is "think not"

Finally, your intelligent brain got the solution. I admire.
But, who is going to get the benefit out of this solution ?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

There's a general claim that its the brain who observes all the activities done by that human body. Fine.

If so, then at the very same moment who/what observes, that the brain observes ?

I don't understand the question.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Interesting take. What if one loses all senses and cellular/neural communications?

While still technically alive?

I believe they call it being braindead.

Otherwise it's just being dead.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

How?

Isn't that simply "self-awareness"?

 

[chinu]

Isn't that simply "self-awareness"?

But, who got self-awareness ?