Who observes, that the brain observes ?

[Nakosis]

The many cases of Near Death Experience recorded would tend to show a conscious awareness even when the body is not functioning. Some people report hovering above their body or even going into other rooms and when they awake they know what happened in the other rooms etc.

There are IMO many levels of consciousness. Like when you are dreaming, you are only partially conscious. I read a study a while back that shows when the brain is completely unconscious it is completely unaware. It retains no memories of this period of unconsciousness. When the brain is not functioning there is no awareness. My experiences match this. Under anesthesia or the time I completely passed out, woke up on the floor with a bloody nose and sprained wrist. There was no awareness from the time I passed out to the time I woke up.

However, in these sub-levels of consciousness, a lot can be experienced in a dreamlike state.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

who/what observes, that the brain observes ?

The issue you're apparently taking here with the idea that "the brain alone perceives," introduces an infinite regression, and I don't even think you realize it. Even IF there is someone/something that "observes that the brain observes," then you assuming that there simply MUST be someone/something that does this means that you are being illogical if you do not also impose this requirement on the thing/someone doing the observing of the human brain. It's a past-time theists tend to have. That is, making logical traps for themselves that they then must excuse themselves out of. As in... make excuses to try and wriggle out. It never ceases to amuse.

 

[SigurdReginson]

The many cases of Near Death Experience recorded would tend to show a conscious awareness even when the body is not functioning. Some people report hovering above their body or even going into other rooms and when they awake they know what happened in the other rooms etc.

If you want to experience a near death experience, simply take some DMT. The similarities are pretty astounding. You will walk away a different person, though, and might even develope PTSD.

When your brain is dying, it releases chemicals that cause you to have these kinds of hallucinations. Some people see god, some people see thor, and some people see aliens or mega jesters.

It's all very odd how the human mind works.

 

[blü 2]

There's a general claim that its the brain who observes all the activities done by that human body. Fine.

If so, then at the very same moment who/what observes, that the brain observes ?

The brain is compartmentalized, different parts having different functions. Some of those functions are for coordinating the discrete functions, and sorting out competing results of those functions.

So the short out answer to your question is that the brain is aware of itself to the extent that evolution has provided (ie what you see in the standard model H sap sap).

 

[atanu]

Sounds like a "must be" fallacy, I'll call it. The brain doesn't observe it's the seat and control. We think the mind observes but it's just a result of the brains picking up on external and internal sensors and using language to interpret. All from the brain.

But how did you get a "who" though? Why not what?

You are a ‘who’ or a ‘what’? But how does that matter? That there is ‘awareness of existence’ is beyond doubt.

 

[atanu]

The brain is aware of itself.

So, you equate brain to the self/Self that is aware “I exist”?

 

[Father Heathen]

So, you equate brain to the self/Self that is aware “I exist”?

Well it isn't the spleen.

 

[atanu]

So the short out answer to your question is that the brain is aware of itself .......

You are always so sure of what you say.

But will you kindly show us some evidence that a brain on its own (in a vat or in a Petri dish for example) says “I exist”.

 

[atanu]

Well it isn't the spleen.

Yeah. Neither is it the brain.

 

[atanu]

There's a general claim that its the brain who observes all the activities done by that human body. Fine.

If so, then at the very same moment who/what observes, that the brain observes ?

It is the universal experience of mystics that bodies and minds do not have awareness. The awareness has bodies and minds. Realising this is to know one’s nature as it is. This experience alone helps to get rid of the bondage caused by the notion that ever changing phenomenon called body-mind is ‘me’.

...

 

[blü 2]

You are always so sure of what you say.

But will you kindly show us some evidence that a brain on its own (in a vat or in a Petri dish for example) says “I exist”.

It's very simple! First, place your brain in its petri dish and whisper "Are you there?". And when you get an affirmative response, you can have all your questions answered from (as it were) the horse's mouth!

 

[Father Heathen]

Yeah. Neither is it the brain.

Wizardry it is, then.

 

[osgart]

"I", know thyself! Enough already. The brain gives you accurate experiences, nothing more!

I suppose one might say that vision is merely a process that reports to another process and that the brain manufactures the illusion of self by way of information processes. But that is total bull.

Self denial that is! Computational obsessiveness perhaps.

 

[Howard Is]

It is the universal experience of mystics that...

No true Scotsman ?

You have just defined mysticism as necessarily including your belief regarding the brain.

My existence contradicts that definition.

 

[chinu]

Some religions have an idea that life, or materiality, is some kind of malignant trap from which we must extricate ourselves.

I would accept that is true if one is suffering from craving/aversion.
But the remedy to that is wisdom, not taking refuge in some alleged ‘spirituality’.

Okay,

Suppose am suffering from craving/aversion.

What wisdom do you have as a remedy for this ?

 

[chinu]

The issue you're apparently taking here with the idea that "the brain alone perceives," introduces an infinite regression, and I don't even think you realize it. Even IF there is someone/something that "observes that the brain observes," then you assuming that there simply MUST be someone/something that does this means that you are being illogical if you do not also impose this requirement on the thing/someone doing the observing of the human brain. It's a past-time theists tend to have. That is, making logical traps for themselves that they then must excuse themselves out of. As in... make excuses to try and wriggle out. It never ceases to amuse.

Useful.

 

[Milton Platt]

There's a general claim that its the brain who observes all the activities done by that human body. Fine.

If so, then at the very same moment who/what observes, that the brain observes ?

Your question seems nonsensical. Why does someone have to observe the brain to know that it is the thing that observes.
we know how the sensory system work.

 

[atanu]

It's very simple! First, place your brain in its petri dish and whisper "Are you there?". And when you get an affirmative response, you can have all your questions answered from (as it were) the horse's mouth!

True. It is like asking a mirror “Where did the image go?”

 

[atanu]

No true Scotsman ?

You have just defined mysticism as necessarily including your belief regarding the brain.

My existence contradicts that definition.

How exactly, my statement represents ‘No true Scotsman’? I did not define mysticism. My mistake was that I did not include ‘in my opinion’ or ‘most mystics’.

How your existence contradicts my observation that mystics understand/experience that ‘body-mind’ is within awareness?

...

Do you consider yourself a mystic? Do you have experience of shunyata? Just curious.

 

[atanu]

Wizardry it is, then.

Less wizardry, in my opinion, than the notion that molecules organised and generated experience. Idealistic worldview, in my understanding, provides more parsimonious explanations.

...