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Who taught Christianity to Paul?

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Ingledsva said:
es, don't you know your Bible.


First did you note that "claims?"


He had no contact whatsoever with Jesus because he was chasing down Christians after Jesus was already dead.


Thus they needed a place to claim he had contact with him, - insert Acts 9:6 telling us the meeting was a "vision" of the dead Jesus.


This is the only way it can be claimed in 1Co 9:1 --


1Co 9:1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?


And the first question in Co 9:1 tells us why they needed it - his authority was being challenged. " Am I not an apostle? ..."


Forgot to add - This "THEY" is more then likely later people inventing, and trying to prove, a legitimate link to Jesus.
On what grounds was his authority being challenged?


Read through 1 Corinthians and find out.


Perhaps this has something to do with it -


1Co 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord:


He definitely had authority problems -


1Co 9:1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

1Co 9:2 If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.

1Co 9:3 Mine answer to them that do examine me is this,


*
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
We really dont know that he met with the real apostles.

Could have been a group with similar names, or paul building his own status as a apostle.

Since we only have pauls word on this, im skeptical

I somewhat share your skepticism. But If Paul invented those stories to build his own status among those who would have respected the apostles, I think he would have invented more positive encounters.
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Premium Member
fantôme profane;3638402 said:
Right. The question is how do you think that Jesus would have felt about that issue? Would he have sided with Paul against the apostles? Against his own brother James the Just?

If we can trust the Q sayings source discerned to be underneath the Synoptics (and its really all we have to go on), Jesus does not appear to have thought all that highly of his own family:

Mark 3:31-35

31 And his mother and his brothers came; and standing outside they sent to him and called him. 32 And a crowd was sitting about him; and they said to him, "Your mother and your brothers are outside, asking for you." 33 And he replied, "Who are my mother and my brothers?" 34 And looking around on those who sat about him, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! 35 Whoever does the will of God is my brother, and sister, and mother."

Matthew 19:29

And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life

Luke 14:26

If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple

Matthew 10:21

Brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death


As you can see, he considered his "family" not to be his genetic one but a spiritual one defined by common adherence to the Father's will. He would thus have seen his group of disciples as his "brothers" more properly than an unbelieving genetic brother.

Consider:

Matthew 23:8 ESV

But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.

This is a very universalistic understanding of "brotherhood" that is not limited to nor defined by familial bonds.

He told his disciples to "detach" themselves from the restraints of familial relations: going so far as to use the very strong word "hate".

He taught that those who abandoned their families for the sake of the kingdom would be "blessed".

He even believed that family loyalties could not ipso facto be relied upon in times of persecution: envisioning brothers betraying brothers to death.

He doesn't look to have been much of a "family" man to me.

This image is corroborated by the traditions underlying the Gospel of John as well:


John 7

Lexham English Bible (LEB)


Jesus’ Brothers Do Not Believe in Him

7 And after these things Jesus was going about in Galilee. For he did not want to go about in Judea, because the Jews were seeking to kill him. 2 Now the feast of the Jews—the feast of Tabernacles—was near. 3 So his brothers said to him, “Depart from here and go to Judea, so that your disciples also can see your works that you are doing. 4 For no one does anything in secret and yet he himself desires to be publicly recognized.[a] If you are doing these things, reveal yourself to the world!” 5 (For not even his brothers believed in him.)

Jesus at the Feast of Tabernacles

6 So Jesus said to them, “My time has not yet come, but your time is always ready. 7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me, because I am testifying about it, that its deeds are evil. 8 You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, because my time is not yet completed. 9 And when he had said these things, he remained in Galilee.


So yes, I could actually see him siding with someone like Paul over James, based upon the fact of him being a genetic "brother" alone. He would have likely seen Paul's controversialist tendencies and passionate nature to have been cut from the same psychological cloth as himself.

James must have distinguished himself later as a disciple for Jesus to admire him. As I said, he seemed to place little value on family bonds and certainly would not have esteemed them. He would have seen James as a true "brother" the minute he believed in him which he evidently ended up doing and doing well I might add based upon his notable stature in the early church.

At least we can't accuse Jesus of nepotism! :D ;)

Since the two never met in life, we will of course never know so I am only speculating.
 
Last edited:

steeltoes

Junior member
fantôme profane;3638402 said:
Right. The question is how do you think that Jesus would have felt about that issue? Would he have sided with Paul against the apostles? Against his own brother James the Just?
According to Paul he got his information from direct communication with Jesus Christ.
 

steeltoes

Junior member
If only Paul sent Paul out to shout the gospel, it means that Paul did not have the proper certificate or license or whatever it was, stamped with the official seal, legalizing him as 'an apostle.'

Real apostles have their papers in order.

No doubt. Will the real apostles please step forward?
 

outhouse

Atheistically
fantôme profane;3638415 said:
I somewhat share your skepticism. But If Paul invented those stories to build his own status among those who would have respected the apostles, I think he would have invented more positive encounters.

To me, Paul invented quite the yarn about his life, according to Paul he lived a life of many men. Its my opinion he used to much artistic liberties.

Again, I see the real apostles heading back to Galilee, or Paul murdering them before I see Paul sitting down to dinner with them.

Paul would have been the real apostles enemy. IMHO
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Even if Paul wasn't a true apostle, how would that prove he didn't learn about Christianity from the Apostles? He mentions Peter in some of his letters.

Dear Christine,
Paul called Peter a hypocrite in public.(Gal 2:11) Yeshua taught his apostles to only correct their brothers in private. (Mt 18:15)

I doubt that Peter was impressed with Paul. And it appears in Gal 2, that James didn't approve of Paul's message either.

The irony is that Yeshua taught to "beware of the leaven (hypocracy) of the Pharisees, and Paul claimed that while teaching jews, that he was a Pharisee of Pharisees and kept the Law, whereas to Greeks, his message was different.This is the ultimate hypocracy. Definitions:

hy·poc·ri·sy

the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

Double-minded:


Bad faith is double mindedness or double heartedness in duplicity, fraud, or deception. It may involve intentional deceit of others, or self-deception. The expression “bad faith” is associated with “double heartedness”, which is also translated as “double mindedness”.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Who sent paul out to teach? only paul.

Acts 15:22*Then the apostles and the older men together with the whole congregation favored sending chosen men from among them to Antioch along with Paul and Bar′na·bas, namely, Judas who was called Bar′sab·bas and Silas, leading men among the brothers; 23*and by their hand they wrote: “The apostles and the older men, brothers, to those brothers in Antioch and Syria and Ci·li′cia who are from the nations: Greetings! 24*Since we have heard that some from among us have caused YOU trouble with speeches, trying to subvert YOUR souls, although we did not give them any instructions, 25*we have come to a unanimous accord and have favored choosing men to send to YOU together with our loved ones, Bar′na·bas and Paul, 26*men that have delivered up their souls for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27*We are therefore dispatching Judas and Silas, that they also may report the same things by word.


It looks like the apostles did send Paul out in their name with letters and directives to distribute to the early christians in various lands.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Paul didn't have the opportunity to read Mt 18:15, it wasn't written until after his death.

Dear steal toes,
Paul professed to have the Spirit of Christ within him. Gal 2:20 Maybe Paul had a spirit within him that was not that of "Christ". Making points at Peter's expense doesn't seem too "Christ like".
Galatians is supposed to be the "Word" of God. I am sure God heard what Yeshua had told the 12 apostles.

.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Acts 15:22*Then the apostles and the older men together with the whole congregation favored sending chosen men from among them to Antioch along with Paul and Bar′na·bas, namely, Judas who was called Bar′sab·bas and Silas, leading men among the brothers; 23*and by their hand they wrote: “The apostles and the older men, brothers, to those brothers in Antioch and Syria and Ci·li′cia who are from the nations: Greetings! 24*Since we have heard that some from among us have caused YOU trouble with speeches, trying to subvert YOUR souls, although we did not give them any instructions, 25*we have come to a unanimous accord and have favored choosing men to send to YOU together with our loved ones, Bar′na·bas and Paul, 26*men that have delivered up their souls for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27*We are therefore dispatching Judas and Silas, that they also may report the same things by word.


It looks like the apostles did send Paul out in their name with letters and directives to distribute to the early christians in various lands.

Acts has always been known as being very questionable regarding its history.

Why didn't Paul mention this?
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Acts has always been known as being very questionable regarding its history.

Why didn't Paul mention this?


Acts is not questionable.

Why would Paul need to mention that he had been sent with letters from the apostles? He had 3 others with him and the letter written by the apostles. Thats all he needed to show the christians to whom they were visiting.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Acts is not questionable.

Why would Paul need to mention that he had been sent with letters from the apostles? He had 3 others with him and the letter written by the apostles. Thats all he needed to show the christians to whom they were visiting.

Well then, it would not be the real apostles as they were probably illiterate.

Read up on what you speak Pegg

Historical reliability of the Acts of the Apostles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A key contested issue is the historicity of Luke's depiction of Paul. According to the majority viewpoint, Acts described Paul differently from how Paul describes himself, both factually and theologically.

Acts differed with Paul's letters on important issues, such as the Law, Paul's own apostleship, and his relation to the Jerusalem church.


Passages of disputed historical accuracy

Acts 5:33-39: Theudas

Acts 2:41 and 4:4 - Peter's addresses

Acts 6:9: The province of Cilicia

Acts 21:38: The sicarii and the Egyptian

Acts 10:1: Roman troops in Caesarea

Acts 15: The Council of Jerusalem

Acts 24: Paul's trial

Acts 15:16-18: James' speech
 

AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
Of course it's not questionable, that's why it's in The Bible.

Sometimes I toss and turn at night trying to go to sleep. I try warm milk and cookies. I swallow pills. I sing myself a lullaby.

But when all else fails, I lie there and recite, "The Bible is all true. The Bible is all true."

Only then can I fall asleep.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
Well whatever, I still reckon it might have been better if the world at large hadn't heard of Jesus as so much evil has been done in his name, probably outweighing the good.
This thread would be better off if you stayed on topic rather than posting your anti Jesus rhetoric.
 

LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Only then can I fall asleep.

What would puts you the sleep are the kinds of questions that used to keep me up (and to some extent still do, albeit in a different way and lacking completely older motivations).

Young men late in the night
Toss in their beds
Their pillows do not comfort
Their uneasy heads
-Auden


Or perhaps a more apropos:

I saw a man pursuing the horizon
Round and round they sped
I was disturbed at this; I accosted the man
"It is futile" I said "you can never-'
"You lie" he cried
And ran on

-Stephen Crane
 
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