Who Was Baha’u’llah, and How Can We Evaluate His Claims?

[Trailblazer]

God cannot be 'demonstrated to exist' under any circumstances.

That's true.

 

[CG Didymus]

The only God we can know is what the Messenger shows us and tells us about,

Okay, who is the God that Krishna told us about? Then... who was the God Buddha told us about? And, might as well tell me about the God Zoroaster talked about?

 

[Trailblazer]

From your article:
"People need to be reminded that whether Jesus said something or not does not touch the question of faith claims about Jesus as being true or not. "The claims about Jesus as the Christ in the creeds are not based on his sayings or dependent upon them for their truth."

Then what are the claims about Jesus dependent upon for their truth?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Well, there you go. There's something we can all evaluate and see if what Baha'u'llah has said and done fit with what the Bible says. So, let's go over it again. Where in the Bible does it foretell of Jesus? Then where does it tell of the coming of Muhammad? Then, after you have established that Jesus and Muhammad were both predicted in the Bible, then we can take a look at the verses you say it foretells of the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Was an 18000 reply post not enough? All those proofs have been provided.

How are these Great Beings explained?

Also did it with this OP

Muhammad and the Bible Proofs, an Islamic quandary

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

That appears to be a difference without a distinction.

Can you explain what you mean?

 

[Trailblazer]

Was an 18000 reply post not enough?

I did not know whether to give that a Funny or a Winner so I picked Winner.

 

[CG Didymus]

So what is your explanation for all the different versions of god suiting the cultural and geographic circumstances of their origin rather than there being an underlying similarity?

Why is this so hard for Baha'is to talk about? People make up Gods and make up rituals and laws to fit their culture. Or was my Cultural Anthropology class and my Introductory to Religions class full of **** and lying to me?

 

[samtonga43]

What it was about Him that could only be possible through contact with a God is a matter of opinion. I could tell you why in my opinion who He was as a Person, what He did on His mission, and what He wrote could only be possible if He was a Messenger of God, but I cannot prove that therefore He was a Messenger of God. Such a claim to have contact with God is not subject to proof. Think about why.

I think we all know why, Tb.
Now, have a look at the bolded words above, and please produce your opinion on this. And, to echo KWED, "No vague platitudes or handwaving please".

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Okay, who is the God that Krishna told us about? Then... who was the God Buddha told us about? And, might as well tell me about the God Zoroaster talked about?

The same One God. They one and all guide us to the same light.

They are all in fact showing us their own Oneness, as they are all born from the Holy Spirit, whereas we are born of the human spirit.

So all the Messengers are the light shining from the One God.

Regards Tony

 

[Subduction Zone]

Can you explain what you mean?

You have never heard the phrase?

Distinction without a difference - Wikipedia

TLDR: It means it is the same thing.

 

[Trailblazer]

Sorry, Tb, but you are wrong. The 'you' here is the collective 'you'.

Collective you does not mean every Jew in the world will return to Israel.
That is nothing more than your personal interpretation.
Go ahead try to prove it. I already did my research and no Jewish websites say that the verse means ALL Jews will return to Israel.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Why is this so hard for Baha'is to talk about?

Really, how long have we been discussing these issues with you?

All the topics have been covered, especially those of nature and nurtures influence over one's faith outlook.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

You have never heard the phrase?

Distinction without a difference - Wikipedia

TLDR: It means it is the same thing.

I have heard the phrase but I do not know what you are applying it to.

 

[CG Didymus]

Ah, indeed! There are Christians whose Biblical understanding rests upon all the archaic words of the KJV.

I sometimes think they believe that God Himself is way behind the times, unable to communicate using the language of the people,

It is ironic that MrB, the so-called messenger for today, cannot speak in the language of today.

I didn't know it at the time, but I was impressed with all the flowery language at first. But then I realized I was getting all the details of Baha'i beliefs second-hand. To read it for myself was so very tedious. Abdul Baha' wasn't as bad, because a lot of his books were from talks he had given. So, he didn't go off into some rant. Shoghi was hard to follow also. He had epic sentences that went on forever.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I have heard the phrase but I do not know what you are applying it to.

When you stated "That is not the claim" and then tried to clarify it with what amounted to the same claim.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That's true.

I wonder, I am sure some who met Baha'u'llah were given such a demonstration.

In fact there are stories of what happened after Baha'u'llah did.

One ran into the sea and drowned himself. Baha'u'llah said that act was forgiven.

There are many recorded stories, but it is of no use telling them. As it is not proof to those that did not receive the demonstration.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

God cannot be 'demonstrated to exist' under any circumstances.

That's why I don't think that Baha'is really believe in the Bible. God is showing himself real all the time in the Bible... including speaking from heaven. And that's okay that they don't believe those things really happened. Lots of people doubt those stories are true. But those people don't then turn around and say how much they believe in the Bible.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I did not know whether to give that a Funny or a Winner so I picked Winner.

Funny was good to.

Regards Tony

 

[samtonga43]

That's why I don't think that Baha'is really believe in the Bible. God is showing himself real all the time in the Bible... including speaking from heaven. And that's okay that they don't believe those things really happened. Lots of people doubt those stories are true. But those people don't then turn around and say how much they believe in the Bible.

Agreed.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That's why I don't think that Baha'is really believe in the Bible. God is showing himself real all the time in the Bible... including speaking from heaven. And that's okay that they don't believe those things really happened. Lots of people doubt those stories are true. But those people don't then turn around and say how much they believe in the Bible.

Agreed.

The Bible is a sure guide to this day and the reaction to the Message of Baha’u’llah.

2 Chronicles 36:16 "But they kept mocking the messengers of God, despising his words and scoffing at his prophets, until the wrath of the Lord rose against his people, until there was no remedy..."

This is the hour we as humanity are now at.

We have been warned many times.

2 Peter 3:3-7 "Knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly."

Notice the creative Word of God is also the Flood and the Fire of God's Wrath.

Regards Tony