Who Was Baha’u’llah, and How Can We Evaluate His Claims?

[Trailblazer]

Clear confirmation bias and cherry-picking.

No, just my belief.

 

[Trailblazer]

You said that would be degrading.

No, Baha'u'llah said that, but only in general. This was a special circumstance.

But you admit that god deliberately makes it difficult for people to recognise a messenger.
Why would he do that? It makes no sense. Remember that god said that he created mankind "only to worship him", so why try and prevent that?

Why would God do that? To separate the wheat from the chaff. It makes sense since God only wants the wheat.

The phrase "separate the wheat from the chaff" may not be terribly meaningful to you — unless you happen to be a grain farmer. The chaff is the husk surrounding a seed, the part of the grain that is generally thrown away.

God is not trying to prevent anyone from knowing and worshiping Him. It is all there for the taking, but if you reject it that is your choice, since you have free will.

"Some were guided by the Light of God, gained admittance into the court of His presence, and quaffed, from the hand of resignation, the waters of everlasting life, and were accounted of them that have truly recognized and believed in Him. Others rebelled against Him, and rejected the signs of God, the Most Powerful, the Almighty, the All-Wise.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 145

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Mat. 11:13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John, 14 and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come

Elijah always comes first.

Baha'u'llah has explained this aspect of Elijah in great detail now. This is the return of the Attributes of Elijah in each age. Every Messenger has an Elijah that prepares the way. For Baha'u'llah it was the Bab, who was the Lamb, who was the Gate to the Glory of God.

This Lamb and throne of God is mentioned often in Revelation.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I believe the deception is there is a word of God when there is no word of God.

To validate that belief, then one would have to show that the Bab was not Elijah and the Lamb that is to appear at the end of ages, and also show that Baha'u'llah was not the Glory of God who sits upon the throne.

I am happy to share all those passages where the Bab and Baha'u'llah have been foretold and made all things new.

The Bab the Lamb is worthy of justice.

"And they sang a new song: You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation."
Revelation 5:9

Regards Tony

 

[samtonga43]

To what end?

Just to continue with my response to your post. Why else would I continue?

Fallacy of this and fallacy of that is not going to accomplish anything except to make you believe you know more than me.

You are not going to change what God has willed with your 'personal opinions' about the Baha'i Faith. Baha'is are imperfect, but the Baha'i Faith is still the religion of God for this age.

Unwarranted assumption.

Imagine that, you know more about how to run a religion of God than a Messenger of God.

Unwarranted and illogical assumption.

 

[samtonga43]

The evidence that you are calling out fallacies is plastered all over this forum, just as I said.

samtonga43 said:
Of course you created a straw man.
Your logical fallacy is the fallacy fallacy
This is the fallacy of Unwarranted Assumption.

#1088 samtonga43, Today at 9:18 AM

samtonga43 said:
Your logical fallacy is bandwagon
Another red herring.
But you have now built another strawman.

#1105 samtonga43, 33 minutes ago

Tb, If I were to cite every post in which you point out one fallacy or another committed (according to you) by other posters, I would have no time to eat, sleep, love or pray. As I said, read your own posts.
However it is noted that you don't seem to like others pointing out YOUR logical errors.

 

[samtonga43]

All of it. 3. is just your personal opinion. I do not share it.

Are opinions unwelcome in this forum?

 

[Trailblazer]

Tb, If I were to cite every post in which you point out one fallacy or another committed (according to you) by other posters, I would have no time to eat, sleep, love or pray. As I said, read your own posts.
However it is noted that you don't seem to like others pointing out YOUR logical errors.

I never denied that I point out fallacies that others commit.
I only ever said that in my dialogues with you, I am not the one who points them out first...
That is your specialty.

People have only pointed out logical errors I make, in their opinion.
And I have pointed out logical errors others make, in my opinion.

Do you understand my point?

 

[Trailblazer]

Are opinions unwelcome in this forum?

I never said that or even implied it. Everyone has the right to their opinion.
The problem ensues when people state an opinion as if it was a fact.

 

[Trailblazer]

Unwarranted assumption.

It is not an assumption, it is a belief.

 

[CG Didymus]

My personally view is that Baha'u'llah is one of the prophets who have lived yes.

You are free to think and believe anything you want, just like RF members who are Baha'i has their right to believe Baha'u'llah was The Prophet as you called it.

Well that's why so many of us are questioning the Baha'is on this. Is Baha'u'llah "The return of Christ" and the Maitreya Buddha, and the Kalki incarnation of Krishna/Vishnu, is he the Mahdi, it he the Messiah? This thread is about how we should evaluate the claims made by Baha'u'llah. Those claims make him much more than a prophet. He's claiming to be the "Promised One" of all ages. What do we use to verify that? How do we verify that?

 

[samtonga43]

It is not an assumption, it is a belief.

Really?
You believe that I know more about how to run a religion of God than a Messenger of God.

I don't believe that you believe this.

 

[samtonga43]

I never said that or even implied it. Everyone has the right to their opinion.
The problem ensues when people state an opinion as if it was a fact.

And you never do this, of course.

 

[Trailblazer]

Really?
You believe that I know more about how to run a religion of God than a Messenger of God.

I don't believe that you believe this.

No, I do not believe that.
That was not the part of your post I was responding to. I was responding to what you replied when I said this:

Trailblazer said: ↑

You are not going to change what God has willed with your 'personal opinions' about the Baha'i Faith. Baha'is are imperfect, but the Baha'i Faith is still the religion of God for this age.

THAT is my belief.

 

[Trailblazer]

And you never do this, of course.

No, I do not state my opinions as facts.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Well that's why so many of us are questioning the Baha'is on this. Is Baha'u'llah "The return of Christ" and the Maitreya Buddha, and the Kalki incarnation of Krishna/Vishnu, is he the Mahdi, it he the Messiah? This thread is about how we should evaluate the claims made by Baha'u'llah. Those claims make him much more than a prophet. He's claiming to be the "Promised One" of all ages. What do we use to verify that? How do we verify that?

Personally i do not have answer to all of those things yet, to me there are more important aspects of the teaching that is more important to understand right now.
Since I am not a baha'i my self, i look at it from different P.O.V.

 

[CG Didymus]

I see you are a lover of the Light, no matter where it shines from. With caring heart.

Regards Tony

Okay, Fundamental Christians, Mormons and Hare Krishnas they all believe they have the "light" and are in the "light" They all have some kind, loving people in them. But what about their beliefs? Do you agree with any of them? If not then to think you are in the light, and that your religious beliefs are right doesn't mean much when contradicting beliefs all think they are right and in the "light".

Same with the Baha'i Faith, Plenty of good people, some working hard to make the world better. But are their beliefs true? If they are then those other three religious groups I just mentioned are all wrong. Yet... they've got good people in them? All it proves is that beliefs don't matter. Wrong beliefs work just fine. And that's the problem with religions... For the true believer, their religion, no matter what they believe, does work and is The Truth. Like Scientology... I know a person that swears by it. And has made great changes for the good in his life.

But will any of those other religious beliefs work for you? Probably not, because you probably don't believe they are true. And why would you think that? I would hope you researched them and evaluated them and found that all of them had issues. Things that you don't believe are true. And I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of those same things that you would use to evaluate another religion isn't the same or similar to what some of us are using to evaluate your religion, the Baha'i Faith.

 

[samtonga43]

Why isn't there any female pope?
Because the institutional Church is a patriarchal institute that has traditionally denigrated women.

A patriarchal institute eh? Reminds me of the UHJ.

It took years of struggle before women could even become priests in the Anglican Church and they have only been admitted to the Episcopacy very recently.

Whereas we’re still waiting for the UHJ to catch up.

The Roman Catholic Church is way behind

Just like ……….. ?

and personally I can’t ever see a woman sitting on the Papal throne - at least not as long as the Catholic Church continues in its present recognisable form. The same could be said for the Patriarchates of the Orthodox Churches.

The same could also be said for the ………….?

No, the bullets just came back and hit you in the face. You just cannot see it, but any unbiased person reading these posts can see it.

Not what I hear from other posters

All you continue to do is dig your grave deeper and provide more free advertising for the Baha'i Faith!

I and others are shining a light on what you’d rather people don’t know about

the Baha'i Faith.

Too bad that nothing you are disclosing about the Baha'i Faith is true. People who do their own research will know that.

People who do their own research will find many surprising (and sometimes disturbing) facts about your faith system, just as I and several other here have done..

 

[samtonga43]

No, I do not believe that.
That was not the part of your post I was responding to. I was responding to what you replied when I said this:

Maybe there would be less confusion if you quoted the part to which you are responding.

 

[samtonga43]

No, I do not state my opinions as facts.

Is this a fact?