Who Was Baha’u’llah, and How Can We Evaluate His Claims?

[TransmutingSoul]

How do you define "dogma"? 'Cause that is what I'm referring to.

I consider dogma is building upon a teaching that has not been explained by a Messenger from God.

Jesus warned us about this, adding to the Message of the book, yet many do not consider what they have done, is applicable to that warning.

Regards Tony

 

[samtonga43]

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It is simple to explain why they are not logically incompatible. Hypothetically speaking, there is a possibility that God does not exist since it can never be proven that God exists, but I know that God exists according to the following definition of know.

Tb: "I know that God exists, although it is possible he does not".


Some advice, Tb: read and learn...
How do you know that what you know is true? That's epistemology

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The Writings can be interpreted in various ways.
My point was that the calamities have already begun....

I think WWI and WWII were part of the calamities and the calamities have continued since then.
I also think that many more calamities will occur before the Lesser Peace will be established.

Will it be one big calamity or many smaller ones? Nobody know what form these calamities will take so I do not see any point in surmising.

However, it sure sounds like it will be BIG.

“The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 118-119

Yes they can be, that is why we are told not to dwell on what is to come, as we have no way of knowing what and when.

It was after the 2nd world war where Shoghi Effendi warned of the 3rd conflict before the Lesser Peace. I have posted that quote a few times on RF now, I think it was also the subject of an OP I started.

Sorry busy at work. Stay safe, stay Happy Susan.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Yeah, how do we get anything better than what the NT authors told us? If things were wrong, then they got it wrong. Which very well could be the case. But then did they make up things and embellish some of the stories? If they did, then is Christianity, even from the very start, a true religion from a God or just a man-made religion based on legends and traditions of a guy claiming to be the Jewish Messiah?

Baha'u'llah has foreseen the quandaries CG.

So, Baha'u'llah foresaw the quandaries? Not if he got his information and knowledge from God, because God, apparently, couldn't foresee the problem of having the followers of Jesus write the things down. God could have easily foreseen what was going to happen and have Jesus write down the things God wanted people to know.

 

[CG Didymus]

Free will submission unto the Messenger and God's Laws, is Faith CG.

"Consider the pettiness of men's minds. They ask for that which injureth them, and cast away the thing that profiteth them. They are, indeed, of those that are far astray. We find some men desiring liberty, and priding themselves therein. Such men are in the depths of ignorance."

Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 335

Regards Tony

Do the Baha'is believe the laws in the Bible are accurate and from God? Especially the laws regarding how to sacrifice animals and for which offences people should be stoned to death.

But then there is the problem with religions that most people, and I would hope even Baha'is, don't believe were true. Those religions had laws too. And people were forced, under penalty of death, to obey them. So, that is part of what we are evaluating here. Are these laws brought by Baha'u'llah really from God? And how would we know that? By faith? By faith people were put to death for breaking laws that were supposedly sent by the Gods.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So, Baha'u'llah foresaw the quandaries? Not if he got his information and knowledge from God, because God, apparently, couldn't foresee the problem of having the followers of Jesus write the things down. God could have easily foreseen what was going to happen and have Jesus write down the things God wanted people to know.

I do not question God as to why creation is as it is. I just accept the promise, that it is all for our benefit, it is a gift we can accept.

On the other hand, I really find injustices hard to accept.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Do the Baha'is believe the laws in the Bible are accurate and from God? Especially the laws regarding how to sacrifice animals and for which offences people should be stoned to death.

But then there is the problem with religions that most people, and I would hope even Baha'is, don't believe were true. Those religions had laws too. And people were forced, under penalty of death, to obey them. So, that is part of what we are evaluating here. Are these laws brought by Baha'u'llah really from God? And how would we know that? By faith? By faith people were put to death for breaking laws that were supposedly sent by the Gods.

Those laws are in the past.

We need to embrace the new Laws. They are for our benefit, not God's.

Sorry busy back at work and will be away most of this week at conferences.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

I see the Bible is full of prophecy that is offering that 2 will come.

Regards Tony

Only problem, the Bible has to foretell of four, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah. So, the Bible has four "The Messiah's"? And the NT has to foretell of three "returns of Christ". I doubt very much that the Bible if "full" of prophecies that say two, three or four "The Messiah's" without some very creative, and out of context, interpretations.

 

[rational experiences]

If a human says I agree with the Jesus testimonials.

The review said why no man is God. By definition men had sought gods powers. Sealed as earth within its mass.

Earth hadn't converted it's own mass.

Hence claiming God had created life from nuclear dust fake.

The sun had only attacked earth created dusts exact. Ended as the dust body itself mass as cooled.

Men hence took earths mass back to a position when the sun was converting earth itself. Why it's only evil. By term correctly taught.

Earth survived as rock only because of the space between a sun and a planet Rock. As rock. Space distance had saved earth as rock. Rock bodies came back to earth.

Theists tried to claim the sun gave rock back it's mass to constantly replenish rock. Burning sun asteroid mass with cold rock existing came back only.

You are wrong how you interpreted advice. Men considered it today as a non stop supplemented resource.

Was the reason. How much space... cold...pressure. Allowed energy to still exist as rock. Realised. Holy rock.

Why you had to teach no man is God.

Our life spiritual is bio flesh blood lives inside the heavens form only.

The exact reason why it was bio harmed sacrificed.

The teaching was against Egyptian man star sun theme. Dusts.

Going back in time before a dust was rock. By space pressure. No dust existed then nor did earth gas have alight gases.

So they directly lied ignoring earth was both converted of a layer of pressure and mass into dusts and cooled.

Using a pressure plated Rock pyramid they pretended they had returned science to a pre earth body without dust existing. An outright lie.

What lying human men theists do. Falsely predict.

So Muslims as the saved life in their country...just as other nations saved life was the end result.

Obviously a new asteroid body came but it did not hit earth. Lucky. Holy star term.

Reasoned. As dust did exist it was now termed holy dust by scientists only as it has saved life. As men hadn't caused the creation of dust on earth was the exact teaching reasoned. Had saved life by not being a man's thesis.

Pure luck that life survived only.

If earth was just rock the awareness thesis says science it would have hit us ...unlike why the moon hadn't replaced earths position as just a Rock mass.

Men brought it one rock mass closer in hot space to earths Rock.

Proving the old reason to practice science is false.

Then new reasons to practice the same science false again.

Two false realisations. Both groups of humans said the advice was wrong. No man is God. Don't believe science is correct.

Status each group caused the other group to be aware. Why they agreed Jesus was proven true. No man is God. It has been legally agreed Muslims old documents updated.

Based on...natural spiritual father's life first.

Star fall brain mind changed burning heavens fall gas spirit. Changed mind of man only.

The men who theories science is wrong known. About their incorrect conscious beliefs.

Man's caused heavenly fallout himself was not not any holy act. Or stars fault.

His mind he knew was then trapped possessed visionary between two causes. Mind natural gone.

The total teaching said in the future as I learnt said my brother....you too will learn who father really was as a man...not any lying scientist theist baby man. Self idolator.

And that science was by a man only following his own mans brothers false man beliefs.

Holy living spiritual correct man father knew agreed taught....men
Not a God.

So your own mind recorded man memories knew the whole realisation in the new star fall was not his total mans message. Owned realisations as Jesus had known. As said by Bahu Allah.

Obviously stated.

Non religious non science human would realise father's truth naturally. In a future term not his.

As the proof not a follower of preaching scientific data by a theist first. Stories of theory. By humans.

I always wondered why a human tried to claim a dust reacting was life beginnings. Now I know why you are wrong.

It's how men get sink holes claiming they are doing sun history without causing dusts presence... clearly copying man's thesis and not thinking for self

Not thinking for self was Moses realisation I thought myself and realised I'm wrong.

Jesus status same I realised I was wrong as science theist self thinker...written by not any scientist.

Bahu Allah terms not realised as proven so they said it was to come in a future life of men.

He knew he wasn't following either old themes. He knew it would not be his message in the future either.

As sanctioned a world community of natural spiritual humanity will realise.

 

[rational experiences]

The teachings said the warning. Science was not expected to be future repracticed from the realisation and legal status taken.

Hence all Jesus future predictions are now being removed as nuclear mass is newly being converted.

Which is not data relative to bible. Mass removed and life saving was heavenly only inferred to the star falls return. As defined reason why it was happening.

Men took biblical advice to apply nuclear converting. As if it were instructions.

If you knew how not to be a greedy liar of a self Idolating man theist. Just a human like everyone else. We'd be safe. Now we know we aren't.

 

[Trailblazer]

Some advice, Tb: read and learn...
How do you know that what you know is true? That's epistemology

Some advice.... read and try to understand that there is more than one way of knowing what is true.

3 Ways to Know Something

The Way I know is because I have thought my way through it.

2. Cognitive (Rational)
With cognitive, you know something because you’ve thought your way through it, argued it, or rationalized it.

 

[rational experiences]

Three terms of men a human lying I am three types of a man.

When a man is a baby as he is a man adult. One human life only.

One body.

Mass heavens is self present first it's own body mass as stated. Not owned by a man. He uses it.

Experimental.

I no longer know what to eat or what not to eat. As I changed my balanced life mind in nature via machine science.

Hence I made myself sick experimenting to relearn my own natural life. Says his reality of what I learnt was taught in reality.

No machine ever existed. Experimenting with machine from first string to machines healed presence is machine cooled...cooled reaction to hot reacting is not creating as I did not own mass.. said men.

Creating in natural life is human sex only.

I lied.

Experimenting is attacking only.

Reason to use a machine to enlarge I remove the cell off the body myself by for machine causes.

What a machine only achieves.

Machines expand mass first in reaction by causing heat too.

Enlarging he says so now I'm creating.

Ask a mind what are you referencing you created theist man...his mind travels back falsely to big giant enlarged bodies dinosaur in biology without earths ice saviour first.

As no man existed in his vision in that purpose.

Total review a theist is lying. Pretending he's not there creating from giant life form. Just pretence.

Pretending he's somebody or in some position he personally does not own as just one man mind body.

Query that review says... it's just humans giant feedback heavenly recorded memory false sense of self. Like a giant human caused by lots of small humans living and experiencing was a god.

Reason visionary of past is also just a heavenly recording of a once living giant body life. Ideas only. Reason why he knew about living dinosaurs.

False mind state as already known and warned about.

As it was a paranormal teaching of scientific causes. About the human theists conscious mind. The bible.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"We find some men desiring liberty, and priding themselves therein. Such men are in the depths of ignorance."

Of all what Bahaollah said, this is the Koh-e-noor.
Liberty! Hate the word. Be slaves to Allah and his manifestation, the latest (i.e., Me).

 

[CG Didymus]

I do not question God as to why creation is as it is.

Yes, and neither do some people in other religions. But they believe something totally different than you. Like those Christians that believe the Adam and Eve story. Sin entered the world because of that, and God, thousands of years later, sent his Son to be a sacrifice to pay the penalty for that sin. Should Christians have questioned that, rather than taking it so literal?

 

[ajay0]

But how do they interpret that some of the other religions do see themselves as the "only" true religion? Like with the Baha'is, they say that all the major religions are true and follow the one true God. But then they say that all the other religions added things in and misinterpreted the "original" teachings of the prophet/founder and that's where all the contradictions between the different religions came from.

There could be truth in it. Knowing the bigger picture might enable one to understand the interpolations and misinterpretations, perhaps.

Imho, the bahai religion is incomplete in itself and have defective understanding as well, though I consider it more progressive than the preceding Abrahamic religions.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Yes, and neither do some people in other religions. But they believe something totally different than you. Like those Christians that believe the Adam and Eve story. Sin entered the world because of that, and God, thousands of years later, sent his Son to be a sacrifice to pay the penalty for that sin. Should Christians have questioned that, rather than taking it so literal?

People practice religion differently, some ask more question, other do not ask so much. That is an internal prosess in every faith believer.

To say every religious person who follow the same religion do and believe exactly the same, will actually be a wrong statement

 

[KWED]

That's true. It is possible that God does not exist since it cannot be proven that God exists.
No, that is not your opinion, it is a logical deduction.

So finally, you accept that it is possible that god does not exist!
That took some doing!

I never said

"there is no doubt that god definitely does exist."
I said

I have no doubt that God definitely does exist.
Those are two different statements that have two different meanings.

As both only apply to you (obviously there is doubt elsewhere) they have exactly the same meaning.
You can't seriously expect me to believe that you thought I meant that you said there is no doubt anywhere that god exists?

I a not claiming that God exists with certainty or any other way, I am simply stating that I am certain that God exists.

Dear god!
Those two positions are identical! You have outdone yourself.

 

[KWED]

"What "oppression" is more grievous than that a soul seeking the truth, and wishing to attain unto the knowledge of God, should know not where to go for it and from whom to seek it? For opinions have sorely differed, and the ways unto the attainment of God have multiplied."
Bahá’u’lláh, The Ki tab-i-Ian, p. 29

Oh, I don't know. Slavery? Racist apartheid? Inability to vote because of your gender? Genocide? There is quite a list...

Your man Bahaullah seems to have led a very sheltered life if the worst oppression he can imagine is not having access to a comprehensive selection of religious scriptures.

 

[KWED]

You are free to post what Mirza Ghulam Ahmad offered all humanity CG, that was not already given by the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

The only people calling Mirza Ghulam Ahmad a fraud, is not the Baha'i. I would offer I do not accept his claim. He may very well believe otherwise, but I would offer Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was mistaken and let others make their own decisions.

Regards Tony

"When you understand why you dismiss other beliefs, you will understand why I dismiss yours".

 

[KWED]

Free will submission unto the Messenger and God's Laws, is Faith CG.

"Consider the pettiness of men's minds. They ask for that which injureth them, and cast away the thing that profiteth them. They are, indeed, of those that are far astray.

Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 335

Regards Tony

Indeed. You "ask" for Bahaullah but "cast away" Ahmad. You surely have gone far astray.

We find some men desiring liberty, and priding themselves therein. Such men are in the depths of ignorance."

Indeed. The desire for liberty is such an ignorant pursuit when you can enslave yourself to dogma and speak only in quoted platitudes.