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Who wrote the Quran, and is it infallible ?

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
It suddenly occurred to me that whilst most Christians believe that the Bible may well have innacuracies in it, because whichever human hand wrote the books, some of the meaning may well have been misunderstood - or even changed, to suit the writer's own belief.

I get the impression that Muslims follow the Quran to the letter, taking it as "The word of Allah", throughMuhammad (PUBH) . Yet, having read Islamic material, there seems to be some argument about who wrote it, or added to it .

The second text below quotes "God sent a Prophet and/or Messenger to every nation throughout the history of mankind."And verily, We have sent among every Ummah (community, nation) a messenger (proclaiming): Worship Allah (Alone) and avoid (or keep away from) all false deities" [Qur'an: 16:36]"
From the above, the implication is that Allah had ensured that every nation would have the same message (i.e. the Quran), and yet, no nations (except the Muslim ones) were given the Quran (as revealed through a prophet) . Why is it that we have our Bible ?

Why is it that the above passage also states:- God sent a Prophet and/or Messenger to every nation throughout the history of mankind." . The question that immediately comes to mind is "who is the modern day messenger (or Prophet) ?
To clarify, therefore,
1. Who did write the entire Quran ?
2. Who and where have been all the prophets since Muhammad (PUBH) ?

Please note that I have use what appears to be genuine Islamic sites.........






The following site( http://www.quran.org/ap28.htm )quotes:-

Prophet Muhammad
Wrote God's Revelations
With His Own Hand




  • The first revelation was "Read," and included the statement "God teaches by means of the pen" (96:1-4), and the second revelation was "The Pen" (68:1). The only function of the pen is to write.
    Ignorant Muslim scholars of the first two centuries after the Quran could not understand the Quran's challenge to produce anything like it. They had no idea about the Quran's mathematical composition, and they knew that many literary giants could have composed works comparable to the Quran. In fact, many such literary giants did claim the ability to produce a literary work as excellent as the Quran. The latest claim came from Taha Hussein, the renowned Egyptian writer.
    The ignorant Muslim scholars then decided to proclaim Muhammad an illiterate man! They figured that this would make the Quran's extraordinary literary excellence truly miraculous. The word they relied on to bestow illiteracy upon the Prophet was "UMMY." Unfortunately for those "scholars," this word clearly means "Gentile," or one who does not follow any scripture (Torah, Injeel, or Quran) [see 2:78, 3:20 & 75, 62:2]; it does NOT mean "illiterate."
    The Prophet was a successful merchant. The "Muslim scholars" who fabricated the illiteracy lie forgot that there were no numbers during the Prophet's time; the letters of the alphabet were used as numbers. As a merchant dealing with numbers every day, the Prophet had to know the alphabet, from one to one-thousand.
    The Quran tells us that Muhammad wrote down the Quran - Muhammad's contemporaries are quoted as saying, "These are tales from the past that he wrote down. They are being dictated to him day and night" (25:5). You cannot "dictate" to an illiterate person. The Prophet's enemies who accuse him of illiteracy abuse Verse 29:48, which relates specifically to previous scriptures.
    On the 27th night of Ramadan 13 B.H. (Before Hijerah), Muhammad the soul, the real person, not the body, was summoned to the highest universe and the Quran was given to him (2:97, 17:1, 44:3, 53:1-18, 97:1-5). Subsequently, the angel Gabriel helped Muhammad release a few verses of the Quran at a time, from the soul to Muhammad's memory. The Prophet wrote down and memorized the verses just released into his mind. When the Prophet died, he left the complete Quran written down with his own hand in the chronological order of revelation, along with specific instructions as to where to place every verse. The divine instructions recorded by the Prophet were designed to put the Quran together into the final format intended for God's Final Testament to the world (75:17). The early Muslims did not get around to putting the Quran together until the time of Khalifa Rashed `Uthmaan. A committee was appointed to carry out this task.

    However, looking at :- (http://www.islamhouse.com/en/books/pdf/en2297.pdf )

    God created man for a noble purpose: to worship Him and lead a righteous life based on His commands and guidance to mankind. Mankind learned this by God sending Messengers with clear and practical instructions of the meaning of life and how to worship God properly. God also revealed to these Prophets and Messengers knowledge about what will happen after death and the rewards and punishments for one’s actions.
    These Prophets and Messengers convey the same prevailing message which is
    entrusted to them by God. They proclaimed:"…Oh my people! Worship God! (i.e., without associating anything with him) You have no other god but Him. [Qur'an: 7:65]
    God sent a Prophet and/or Messenger to every nation throughout the history of
    mankind."And verily, We have sent among every Ummah (community, nation) a messenger (proclaiming): Worship Allah (Alone) and avoid (or keep away from) all false deities" [Qur'an: 16:36]
    Some of them we have been informed of and others we have not. These Prophets and Messengers include, but not limited to: Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Aaron, Lot, David, Solomon, Elias, Elisha, Hood, Thul-Kifi, Enoch, Jonah, Job Shu’aib, Saalih, Ezra, Zachariyyah, John, Jesus , Muhammad and others peace and blessings be upon them all.
    Some of them were sent with Books while others were not.
    Some of the books that we were informed of are the Scriptures of Abraham, the Torah of Moses, the Zaboor of Dawood, and the Injeel which was revealed to Jesus. All of these scriptures contained the same basic message from God to mankind. Each Prophet brought specific instructions from God addressed to a particular people for certain times in history and particular circumstances although the essential message remained the same.
 

maro

muslimah
michel said:
It suddenly occurred to me that whilst most Christians believe that the Bible may well have innacuracies in it, because whichever human hand wrote the books, some of the meaning may well have been misunderstood - or even changed, to suit the writer's own belief.

I get the impression that Muslims follow the Quran to the letter, taking it as "The word of Allah", throughMuhammad (PUBH) . Yet, having read Islamic material, there seems to be some argument about who wrote it, or added to it .

The second text below quotes "God sent a Prophet and/or Messenger to every nation throughout the history of mankind."And verily, We have sent among every Ummah (community, nation) a messenger (proclaiming): Worship Allah (Alone) and avoid (or keep away from) all false deities" [Qur'an: 16:36]"
From the above, the implication is that Allah had ensured that every nation would have the same message (i.e. the Quran), and yet, no nations (except the Muslim ones) were given the Quran (as revealed through a prophet) . Why is it that we have our Bible ?

Why is it that the above passage also states:- God sent a Prophet and/or Messenger to every nation throughout the history of mankind." . The question that immediately comes to mind is "who is the modern day messenger (or Prophet) ?
To clarify, therefore,
1. Who did write the entire Quran ?
2. Who and where have been all the prophets since Muhammad (PUBH) ?

Please note that I have use what appears to be genuine Islamic sites.........






The following site( http://www.quran.org/ap28.htm )quotes:-

Prophet Muhammad
Wrote God's Revelations
With His Own Hand
  • The first revelation was "Read," and included the statement "God teaches by means of the pen" (96:1-4), and the second revelation was "The Pen" (68:1). The only function of the pen is to write.
    Ignorant Muslim scholars of the first two centuries after the Quran could not understand the Quran's challenge to produce anything like it. They had no idea about the Quran's mathematical composition, and they knew that many literary giants could have composed works comparable to the Quran. In fact, many such literary giants did claim the ability to produce a literary work as excellent as the Quran. The latest claim came from Taha Hussein, the renowned Egyptian writer.
    The ignorant Muslim scholars then decided to proclaim Muhammad an illiterate man! They figured that this would make the Quran's extraordinary literary excellence truly miraculous. The word they relied on to bestow illiteracy upon the Prophet was "UMMY." Unfortunately for those "scholars," this word clearly means "Gentile," or one who does not follow any scripture (Torah, Injeel, or Quran) [see 2:78, 3:20 & 75, 62:2]; it does NOT mean "illiterate."
    The Prophet was a successful merchant. The "Muslim scholars" who fabricated the illiteracy lie forgot that there were no numbers during the Prophet's time; the letters of the alphabet were used as numbers. As a merchant dealing with numbers every day, the Prophet had to know the alphabet, from one to one-thousand.
    The Quran tells us that Muhammad wrote down the Quran - Muhammad's contemporaries are quoted as saying, "These are tales from the past that he wrote down. They are being dictated to him day and night" (25:5). You cannot "dictate" to an illiterate person. The Prophet's enemies who accuse him of illiteracy abuse Verse 29:48, which relates specifically to previous scriptures.
    On the 27th night of Ramadan 13 B.H. (Before Hijerah), Muhammad the soul, the real person, not the body, was summoned to the highest universe and the Quran was given to him (2:97, 17:1, 44:3, 53:1-18, 97:1-5). Subsequently, the angel Gabriel helped Muhammad release a few verses of the Quran at a time, from the soul to Muhammad's memory. The Prophet wrote down and memorized the verses just released into his mind. When the Prophet died, he left the complete Quran written down with his own hand in the chronological order of revelation, along with specific instructions as to where to place every verse. The divine instructions recorded by the Prophet were designed to put the Quran together into the final format intended for God's Final Testament to the world (75:17). The early Muslims did not get around to putting the Quran together until the time of Khalifa Rashed `Uthmaan. A committee was appointed to carry out this task.

    However, looking at :- (http://www.islamhouse.com/en/books/pdf/en2297.pdf )

    God created man for a noble purpose: to worship Him and lead a righteous life based on His commands and guidance to mankind. Mankind learned this by God sending Messengers with clear and practical instructions of the meaning of life and how to worship God properly. God also revealed to these Prophets and Messengers knowledge about what will happen after death and the rewards and punishments for one’s actions.
    These Prophets and Messengers convey the same prevailing message which is
    entrusted to them by God. They proclaimed:"…Oh my people! Worship God! (i.e., without associating anything with him) You have no other god but Him. [Qur'an: 7:65]
    God sent a Prophet and/or Messenger to every nation throughout the history of
    mankind."And verily, We have sent among every Ummah (community, nation) a messenger (proclaiming): Worship Allah (Alone) and avoid (or keep away from) all false deities" [Qur'an: 16:36]
    Some of them we have been informed of and others we have not. These Prophets and Messengers include, but not limited to: Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Aaron, Lot, David, Solomon, Elias, Elisha, Hood, Thul-Kifi, Enoch, Jonah, Job Shu’aib, Saalih, Ezra, Zachariyyah, John, Jesus , Muhammad and others peace and blessings be upon them all.
    Some of them were sent with Books while others were not.
    Some of the books that we were informed of are the Scriptures of Abraham, the Torah of Moses, the Zaboor of Dawood, and the Injeel which was revealed to Jesus. All of these scriptures contained the same basic message from God to mankind. Each Prophet brought specific instructions from God addressed to a particular people for certain times in history and particular circumstances although the essential message remained the same.


First of all , the first site is not a genuine islamic site ( as it seems to u )
it's a completely misleading one

and if u r really interested to learn about islam , u better keep away from it

and I didn't find anything wrong , with the second one ( I only read the quote from it )

About ur Questions;
1) the modern day messenger , and the last messenger to people ( till the day of judjment ) , is Muhammed - peace be upon him-

and even though he died , but his Book and his messege are perserved by god from being changed , till the day of judgment (as mentioned by the quran)

and nowadays, there are about 1 milliar muslim on Earth
so , I don't think there is a person on Earth who haven't heard of Muhammed , and his messege

and I believe that the one who is sincerely searching for the truth , Allah will guide him to it
and every single day , we see the stories of people who were far from Islam,
and Allah guided them to it at last

_ Unlike any other prophet ( even Jesus _Peace be upon him - ) , the messege of muhammed is not restricted to certain people , in certain time

instead, it's universal , to all people , till the day of judgment, because as i have said before , he is the last prophet

_All prophets called people , to Islam (submitting to allah) , the great creator of the universe
and they told them, about the purpose of their short lives
and the way of happiness , in this life , and the after life

No prophet said , I am god , or I am god's son , but i am a normal human being chosen by allah to convey his messege

and changing the core of his messege after he died ( the messege of Tawheed), is not something blamed on the great prophet Jesus _ peace and blessings be upon him _

2)ur second Question :

the quran was not written in the life of the prophet _ Peace and blessings be upon him _

It was written in the era of (abo B akr al sediq ) ( as i remember )
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Hi!

In the Baha'i view, ultimately God did, and yes, we consider it infallible (although now superceded).

Peace,

Bruce
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
BruceDLimber said:
Hi!

In the Baha'i view, ultimately God did, and yes, we consider it infallible (although now superceded).

Peace,

Bruce

Sorry; superceded by what ?
 

ayani

member
maro said:
and if u r really interested to learn about islam , u better keep away from it

that sounds rather threatening, maro.....

why would you ask Michel to keep away froma site called "quran dot org" or "islam house dot com"? what, exactly, is un-Islamic about these sites? they seem pretty steeped in Islam to me.
 

maro

muslimah
gracie said:
that sounds rather threatening, maro.....

why would you ask Michel to keep away froma site called "quran dot org" or "islam house dot com"? what, exactly, is un-Islamic about these sites? they seem pretty steeped in Islam to me.

I am sorry , if it seemed threatening
but it was just and advise , to someone who is interested to learn about islam

in fact , I don't judge islamic sites by their names , but by their content

and it's a fact , that there are some sites who seem to be islamic , while they are propagating misleading ideas about islam

and the first one , is definetly one of them
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Hi again!

michel said:
That sounds like a parallel to the Christian/LDS "split"

In the Baha'i view, not really.

It's all a continuing process we Baha'is call Progressive Revelation, basically that God has continually sent Divine Messengers to update His teachings and laws to us according to our needs in each Age (and will continue to do so forever). This usually happens every 500-1,000 years when each Messenger founds a new religion that's the next stage in an ever-evolving one faith, the Faith of God! The Baha'i Faith is simply the latest (but not the last) such religious Revelation.

Best,

Bruce
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
gracie said:
that sounds rather threatening, maro.....

why would you ask Michel to keep away froma site called "quran dot org" or "islam house dot com"? what, exactly, is un-Islamic about these sites? they seem pretty steeped in Islam to me.

I'm a bit suspicious about this site. It has alot of false accusations and some confusion.

You can't rely on it just because it's "quran dot org", even if their motives were great but i think they should do some corrections in the content of their site.

Anyone who is interested about anything can visit www.islamonline.net

Peace and blessing,

TT :)
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
BruceDLimber said:
In the Baha'i view, ultimately God did, and yes, we consider it infallible (although now superceded).

BruceDLimber said:
By the Baha'i scriptures and teachings.

jmoum said:
By a new revelation, that of Baha'u'llah.

I don't understand how the Quran now can be superseded by the Baha'i scriptures.

Any specific reason?
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Abu Baqr supervised a council of Muslim scholars--all of whom had heard the Qur'an recited before them and committed it to memory. They completed after several years the project of determining what is Qur'anic and what is not.

In my opinion, this is quite similar to the Council of Nicaea, though Abu Baaqr's project was graced by those who had actually heard the Prophet speak.

Once this Qur'an was completed, Abu Baqr, in his authority as Caliph disseminated the document all over the Islamic world with directions that all other versions were to be destroyed lest confusion and division might reign.

To an extreme degree this order was carried out all over Islam. The decree was to burn the unofficial documents, though the tradition was largely to bury with honor like a believer might be buried, Qur'ans that were worn out or damaged.

In Yemen a pre-Abu Baqr collection of Qur'ans was wrapped in cloth and tucked away in the dome of the earliest mosque in Yemen. It was discovered in the 1970's and Yemeni officals did not destroy it, but allowed a few scholars to make proper photographic copies and analyze the documents.

There are indeed differences in the versions.

Add to this the simple fact that since the Abu Baqr version of the Qur'an was pronouced the alphabet has changed with the addition of diacriticals to designate vowels that was never present in the original versions and there is room for some uncertainty.

This uncertainty has created a great deal of furor in the Islamic world.

This change in alphabet is largely the cause of the disagreement over the word "khataam" and indicates a different symbology for the phrase "Seal of the Prophets" may be more accurate than the traditional very strict definition of the phrase.

Regards,
Scott
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
The Truth said:
I don't understand how the Quran now can be superseded by the Baha'i scriptures.

Any specific reason?

I think "supercede" is a poor choice of words for describing the nature of progressive revelation. The Injeel did not supercede the Torah. The Qur'an did not "supercede" the Injeel.
In the same sense the Baha`i sacred writings re-illuminate the sacred text which preceded it.

Think of it like reading ancient scrolls and the difficulties that produces. In modern times we "re-illuminate" those documents using different kinds of light to see what is not there to the naked eye.

Regards,
Scott
 

Laila

Active Member
sorry for being ignorant but could you tell me more about the Bahai faith, I assumed that it was a philosophy that you follow alongside your own faith! Information from the Indian tour guide - on a trip to Delhi.

We took a visit to the lotus temple in Delhi and the walls hangings were religious scriptures from Sikhism, Islam and Christianity - I didn't have time to look at them all so I don't know if there were any other religious scriptures. Also at the temple they read from the Noble Quran, Holy Bible and the Holy book of the Guru Granth Sahib - I didn't stay long enough to hear any readings, but all the books were there. Is any of this true or did I just have a rubbish tour guide? If it is not true what is the truth about the Bahai faith?
 

maro

muslimah
Popeyesays said:
I think "supercede" is a poor choice of words for describing the nature of progressive revelation. The Injeel did not supercede the Torah. The Qur'an did not "supercede" the Injeel.
In the same sense the Baha`i sacred writings re-illuminate the sacred text which preceded it.

Think of it like reading ancient scrolls and the difficulties that produces. In modern times we "re-illuminate" those documents using different kinds of light to see what is not there to the naked eye.

Regards,
Scott

how could any one ( re _illuminate ) the words of God

I am sorry , but I couldn't understand what u mean by ( illuminate )
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
maro said:
how could any one ( re _illuminate ) the words of God

I am sorry , but I couldn't understand what u mean by ( illuminate )
Do you read a book in the dark?Regards,Scott
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Laila said:
sorry for being ignorant but could you tell me more about the Bahai faith, I assumed that it was a philosophy that you follow alongside your own faith! Information from the Indian tour guide - on a trip to Delhi.

We took a visit to the lotus temple in Delhi and the walls hangings were religious scriptures from Sikhism, Islam and Christianity - I didn't have time to look at them all so I don't know if there were any other religious scriptures. Also at the temple they read from the Noble Quran, Holy Bible and the Holy book of the Guru Granth Sahib - I didn't stay long enough to hear any readings, but all the books were there. Is any of this true or did I just have a rubbish tour guide? If it is not true what is the truth about the Bahai faith?
---------------------------The Baha`i Faith is not a philosophy, it's an independent religion. As an independent religion it teaches that the Baha`i Faith is but a continuation of the Religion of God as taught by Abraham. Islam, Sikhism, Hinduism, Christianity, Zoroastrianism and most other religions of revelation are also continuations, each in turn, of the Religion of God.The Baha`i Faith was founded by a Prophet just as Christianity and Islam were founded by seperate Prophets, yet were still pages in the Book of Revelation.Regards,Scott
 
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