Whose 'logic' is it anyway?

[nnmartin]

The atheist talk of logic in trying to explain away God ,Religion or Spirituality is a moot point.

Whose logic are we talking about here - God's or human's?

What may seem logical to us is only so because we only understand our own logic.

Think of a tribe comprised of children - their leaders would make the rules based on their own logic - to them it would all be commonsense and correct yet an adult could easily prove them wrong.

How about animal logic? - would a human be able to tell the leader of the Wolf Pack the correct way to do things, and how could a human possibly know anyway?

The same is true of God.

Statements such as 'the concept of God defies logic therefore it is just a delusion' are erroneous as they are based on the logical fallacy of human logic being correct.

God exists otherwise how else can you explain anything?

 

[Meow Mix]

You are conflating reasoning with logic.

Reasoning is indeed something that we do in our minds and is limited to our experiences and prior knowledge -- logic, though, is the very rules of reality that we find outside ourselves and can only describe (not create).

 

[Twilight Hue]

What may seem logical to us is only so because we only understand our own logic.

There you go. Thats all there is.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You are conflating reasoning with logic.

You're being generous. I think he's conflating gut feelings with logic.

 

[nnmartin]

Ok , reasoning then if you like.

Man's reasoning says religion and God should not exist therefore some assume that this must be the case. - wrong.

This is because we are locked in the cage of our own reasoning.

God's reasoning is on a significantly higher plane and we are only able to glimpse or touch it at fleeting moments.

Human reasoning , logic and gut-feeling is hopelessly inadequate in trying to understand or explain the Universe.

This is one of the reasons we simply need to believe in God and forget about worrying over proof or reasons.

God is there for us.

 

[ChristineES]

We can't live by logic alone- sometimes feelings are all we have.

 

[Me Myself]

We can't live by logic alone- sometimes feelings are all we have.

I´ll even say perceptions to that.

I am more with ChristinES on this.

I understand the atheist viewpoint (it´s not hard, people), but I have my faith and my reasons.

I know they aren´t logical, but they don´t need be. After all, many atheists don´t need religion at all or believing in "God" or anything like that.

So why push?

 

[Drolefille]

Ok , reasoning then if you like.

Man's reasoning says religion and God should not exist therefore some assume that this must be the case. - wrong.

This is because we are locked in the cage of our own reasoning.

God's reasoning is on a significantly higher plane and we are only able to glimpse or touch it at fleeting moments.

Human reasoning , logic and gut-feeling is infinitesimally inadequate in trying to understand or explain the Universe.

This is one of the reasons we simply need to believe in God and forget about worrying over proof or reasons.

God is there for us.

What's the difference in simply believing in God vs. Simply believing in unicorns?

Similarly do you simply believe in Ganesh? Or just God? Or are they the same?

 

[payak]

you say its due to ignorance, and lack of understanding of god.

could it also be lack of understand of nature and science for being unable to explain all.

I believe as far as things stand right now science has shown more of whats what then religion

 

[ChristineES]

you say its due to ignorance, and lack of understanding of god.

could it also be lack of understand of nature and science for being unable to explain all.

I believe as far as things stand right now science has shown more of whats what then religion

Physically, that is true. But it is not true spiritually.

 

[payak]

I dont see many religious people or religious elders acting very spiritual.
decietful yes, spiritual no.
many have a lot to answer for.

 

[jargin]

Keeping it simple:

Yes we are bound by our own logic, reason and thinking. But all of that is confined to our brains physically and they are an innate part of us. Our ability to think is what defines us and sets us apart as a species. Anyone who says that, "God's logic and reason is superior to human's, our logic compared to God's is like adult logic compared to children" in my opinion is just trying to play a "trump card". God trumps us in every sense, therefore God is the ultimate trump card in debate.

 

[Daviso452]

Ok , reasoning then if you like.

Man's reasoning says religion and God should not exist therefore some assume that this must be the case. - wrong.

This is because we are locked in the cage of our own reasoning.

God's reasoning is on a significantly higher plane and we are only able to glimpse or touch it at fleeting moments.

Human reasoning , logic and gut-feeling is infinitesimally inadequate in trying to understand or explain the Universe.

This is one of the reasons we simply need to believe in God and forget about worrying over proof or reasons.

God is there for us.

You cannot use God to support a position concerning whether god exists or not. That is a circular argument and a logical fallacy.

 

[nnmartin]

What's the difference in simply believing in God vs. Simply believing in unicorns?

Similarly do you simply believe in Ganesh? Or just God? Or are they the same?

Unicorns would be magical creatures created by God.

Ganesh and all the other gods are essentially manifestations of the same thing.

 

[PolyHedral]

How about animal logic? - would a human be able to tell the leader of the Wolf Pack the correct way to do things, and how could a human possibly know anyway?

Of course. The only problem is that nobody has done the research ATM.

 

[nnmartin]

How could a human really know a wolf's innermost thoughts though?

The idea of some brain scanning equipment doesn't quite do the trick for me.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

When your religion fails to stand up to reason and logic -

-it's reason and logic's fault.

It all makes sense now.

 

[PolyHedral]

How could a human really know a wolf's innermost thoughts though?

The idea of some brain scanning equipment doesn't quite do the trick for me.

Deduction. Or slightly more specifically: science. It's worked for the fundamental components of the universe, you just need to make it more efficient if you want it to work on a wolf's mind.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

In any case, thanks for the opportunity to present my

Dog Whisperer Fallacy

I use this as a way to argue against the oft-repeated phrase: God's reason is not our reason' or 'we can't know the mind of God', or similar, when irrationality is offered as the
way in which God supposedly operates.

If you needed to train a dog, you would NOT simply sit it in front of a TV and put in a DVD of the Dog Whisperer; you would communicate with the dog in the way IT understands.

On the show 'the Dog Whisperer', the host shows people how to relate to their dogs to curb behavior problems. With every troubled dog, the host communicates with them in every way that relates to the social interaction of dogs. He establishes the social hierarchy of the pack, with himself at the top as alpha. He corrects them firmly, but always in gestures that a dog would use; he forces the dog into a physically submissive position, on its back with its belly up and exposed; he will grasp them by the neck [not in a harmful way] with is fingers crooked so that the dog feels as it its got teeth on its neck.

He never yells, he never hits; he never holds long conversations explaining his desires with the dog. In every respect, he is speaking dog to the dog, because that is the only way it will learn. And his methods are 100% effective.

If you were God, you could not expect to communicate to Man in a way only you as God understand, and expect anything to be learned by Man. The ONLY way you could communicate to Man would HAVE to be in a rational way as Man understands it. If God's way is not rational, on the level of Man's rationality [because who gave Man rationality in the first place as a
method of thought?], then God is merely an irrational, random and capricious danger to Man.

 

[Caladan]

God exists otherwise how else can you explain anything?

In the last couple of hundreds of years society has advanced in various fields and on a general level. science has advanced, technology and industry have advanced and social fields have advanced. we can no longer apply the same reason or logic that society used to apply. in fact, we have a responsibility not to fall to that trap.
ask yourself this, in what way does the question of the existence of God handicaps you in coming to terms with various scientific developments?
also, why does it handicap you? science doesn't say much about God. but it says plenty on fields such as evolution. does this field threatens your own subjective belief system?
maybe you should examine why is that.